# Covid-19 miscellany

#### Toni

##### Contributor
Mask mandates don't work;

New data shows Covid cases in Singapore and New Zealand have overtaken Australia in the latest Omicron wave despite ultra-strict mask mandates. Masks are worn everywhere in the densely-populated Asian city while New Zealanders are forced to wear them in all indoor public places, such as shopping centres and libraries. But both now have higher case numbers per million than Australia, where compulsory mask rules have been abandoned in most indoor settings. These figures appear to smash the push now on in Australia for a return to mask mandates, which are currently compulsory only on public transport and in aged care and healthcare centres.

Daily Mail

Forgot say, I was getting gas at Costco yesterday ($5.40 a gallon, thanks Brandon!!) and a guy pulled up to the pump, put a mask on, got out his car, got gas, got in his car and took his mask off. He actually put a mask on outdoors!! I'm like "where the cameras at? This fool can't be serious." Blame your local station. Gas is just over$4/gal now, and I haven't looked at the prices today. They've dropped a few times over the last week where I live.

#### Toni

##### Contributor
Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments.
Patooka did make an inference that exactly follows the numerous times TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective. And TSwizzle has said that a lot. Do your own research.
So what if he said they were ineffective? So what? TSwizzle said he didn't want authoritarians to force him to wear a mask. It does not follow that he wants to or should prevent others from wearing masks.

I don't want the government to force people to exercise. That doesn't mean I object to people exercising of their own free will.
So, you're arguing that TSwizzle thinks of himself as a special case?
No.

I am certain that he expects medical personnel to wear masks as required by laws governing medical procedures. I am certain that he expects masks to be worn (by dentist and assistants) when he is having a dental procedure or even a dental exam. I am certain he expects masks to be work by everyone in the surgical area should he have surgery.

TSwizzle obviously thinks he should not be forced to wear a mask. I doubt he believes that others should not be so required if it protects him.
I don't know what he thinks, but even if he does think his dentist or surgeon should be forced to wear a mask, that would still not necessarily be a hypocrisy. After all, dentists and doctors wear masks in particular contexts, not as a general rule of being alive in public

Nor does it follow, as Patooka implied, that his principles would require him to demand other people do not wear masks.
You mean particular context such as a pandemic/public health emergency????

#### Patooka

##### Contributor
Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments.
Patooka did make an inference that exactly follows the numerous times TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective. And TSwizzle has said that a lot. Do your own research.
So what if he said they were ineffective? So what? TSwizzle said he didn't want authoritarians to force him to wear a mask. It does not follow that he wants to or should prevent others from wearing masks.

I don't want the government to force people to exercise. That doesn't mean I object to people exercising of their own free will.
I'm extremely comfortable with you being the only person not understanding my point.

#### Cheerful Charlie

##### Contributor
Here in Texas, guvner Abbott got laws passed to prevent, schools, businesses, government agencies to require wearing masks or getting covid vaccines. Because "Freedumb!". Abbott wants all of the mnay Texas plague rats to be free to infect all ofeverybody else. With utter morons like Abbott and the Texas GOP running things in Texas, Texas is getting prepared for the fall Covid 19 season to come.

I just got my fourth booster vax and a new box of masks and gloves. Die shitting, anti-vaxxers!

#### Jarhyn

##### Wizard
Here in Texas, guvner Abbott got laws passed to prevent, schools, businesses, government agencies to require wearing masks or getting covid vaccines. Because "Freedumb!". Abbott wants all of the mnay Texas plague rats to be free to infect all ofeverybody else. With utter morons like Abbott and the Texas GOP running things in Texas, Texas is getting prepared for the fall Covid 19 season to come.

I just got my fourth booster vax and a new box of masks and gloves. Die shitting, anti-vaxxers!
The white horse seems to be riding.

Lol, got it wrong a couple times but...

##### Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Here in Texas, guvner Abbott got laws passed to prevent, schools, businesses, government agencies to require wearing masks or getting covid vaccines. Because "Freedumb!". Abbott wants all of the mnay Texas plague rats to be free to infect all ofeverybody else. With utter morons like Abbott and the Texas GOP running things in Texas, Texas is getting prepared for the fall Covid 19 season to come.

I just got my fourth booster vax and a new box of masks and gloves. Die shitting, anti-vaxxers!
Whoo hoo! Keep killing your own voters.

#### TSwizzle

##### Let's Go Brandon!
More anti science bullshit;

Novak Djokovic's hopes of playing in the US Open suffered another blow after the tournament said it would respect the United States government's rules on the Covid-19 vaccine. The US require non-citizens to be fully vaccinated against coronavirus to enter, meaning Djokovic, who has made it repeatedly clear that he will not take the vaccine, will not be allowed entry.

Daily Mail

Thousands crossing the border illegally, no problem. Let's Go Brandon!!

##### Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Thousands crossing the border illegally, no problem.
Who said that?

#### Loren Pechtel

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Two officials at one of the largest hospital systems in Los Angeles and Southern California dismissed government officials’ statements about another wave of COVID-19 hitting the region and the United States as ‘media hype,’ The Epoch Times reported Sunday. This flies in the face of Los Angeles County Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer’s announcement on Thursday that Los Angeles County has officially reached the “High” level of new COVID-19 cases and County hospitalization rates, giving the County two weeks to fall back below or else mandatory indoor masking mandates return, as the Globe reported. Ferrer has been teasing with the “high” level of COVID-19 transmission” indoor mask mandates will likely come back. “In a news conference on July 13, Brad Spellberg, the chief medical officer of Los Angeles County and University of Southern California Medical Center, and epidemiologist Paul Holtom, said that there have been no changes in the transmission levels of COVID-19.” Dr. Spellberg said they are seeing thousands of people with Covid, “but it is mild, and they go home,” he said. He said of the patients who are admitted to the hospital, “90% of the time it is not due to Covid. Only 10% of our Covid-positive admissions are due to Covid. None of them go to the ICU, and when they do, it is not for pneumonia,” he added. “They are not intibated. We have not seen one of those since February. As of this morning, we have no one in the hospital who had pulmonary disease due to COVID. Nobody in the hospital … Nobody. Nobody who had COVID-19 disease as we would see it in the past. So I guess it is hard to get a little more excited,” he said.

CA Globe

“Doctor” Ferrer is a control freak, nut and not even a medical doctor. Her thing is about “equity”.

The authoritarians will not get me wearing a mask.
So the ones that die all do so suddenly, never deteriorating to ICU first??

#### Loren Pechtel

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Mask mandates don't work;

New data shows Covid cases in Singapore and New Zealand have overtaken Australia in the latest Omicron wave despite ultra-strict mask mandates. Masks are worn everywhere in the densely-populated Asian city while New Zealanders are forced to wear them in all indoor public places, such as shopping centres and libraries. But both now have higher case numbers per million than Australia, where compulsory mask rules have been abandoned in most indoor settings. These figures appear to smash the push now on in Australia for a return to mask mandates, which are currently compulsory only on public transport and in aged care and healthcare centres.

Daily Mail

Forgot say, I was getting gas at Costco yesterday ($5.40 a gallon, thanks Brandon!!) and a guy pulled up to the pump, put a mask on, got out his car, got gas, got in his car and took his mask off. He actually put a mask on outdoors!! I'm like "where the cameras at? This fool can't be serious." Mask mandates don't work because they don't mandate and enforce N95 or better masking. Anything less is a joke against Omicron. And I very well might put on a mask in that situation--I'm going to be spending some minutes with others close nearby in a somewhat confined airspace and with no guarantee somebody isn't going to walk quite close to me. (Someone going inside to pay from a pump farther out.) #### Loren Pechtel ##### Super Moderator Staff member I am certain that he expects medical personnel to wear masks as required by laws governing medical procedures. I am certain that he expects masks to be worn (by dentist and assistants) when he is having a dental procedure or even a dental exam. I am certain he expects masks to be work by everyone in the surgical area should he have surgery. You know what pisses me off? That the doctor washes their hands and wears latex gloves before treating me. I particularly object to the latex glove when getting my prostate exam. But what am I gonna do? Thems the rules. That would surprise me--most places no longer use latex gloves. And the digital prostate exam is no longer considered useful for screening. #### Loren Pechtel ##### Super Moderator Staff member I just got my fourth booster vax and a new box of masks and gloves. Die shitting, anti-vaxxers! Why gloves? The risk of Covid through your hand surface is basically zero and gloves provide no protection against your fingers transferring it elsewhere. #### Elixir ##### Made in America I just got my fourth booster vax and a new box of masks and gloves. Die shitting, anti-vaxxers! Why gloves? The risk of Covid through your hand surface is basically zero and gloves provide no protection against your fingers transferring it elsewhere. Right. That’s why I pick up dog poop with a bare hand. Oh, wait - no, I don’t. Nitrile gloves are great to have just for … life. But as you point out, their greatest impact on COVID is probably psychological. #### ZiprHead ##### Loony Running The Asylum Staff member I just got my fourth booster vax and a new box of masks and gloves. Die shitting, anti-vaxxers! Why gloves? The risk of Covid through your hand surface is basically zero and gloves provide no protection against your fingers transferring it elsewhere. Right. That’s why I pick up dog poop with a bare hand. Oh, wait - no, I don’t. Nitrile gloves are great to have just for … life. But as you point out, their greatest impact on COVID is probably psychological. Yup, I use them when painting, working on the car, etc. #### TomC ##### Celestial Highness I'm extremely comfortable with you being the only person not understanding my point. I understood your point well enough to know you're wrong. Refusing to wear a mask isn't at all the same as enforcing your personal choice on anyone else. It's really easy to understand, if that's your goal. Tom #### Cheerful Charlie ##### Contributor I just got my fourth booster vax and a new box of masks and gloves. Die shitting, anti-vaxxers! Why gloves? The risk of Covid through your hand surface is basically zero and gloves provide no protection against your fingers transferring it elsewhere. The risk may be small but there is a risk. I am not in the best of health and I am risk averse. I have a fair amount of seeing doctors, and hospital buildings, waiting rooms and doctor's offices are good places to find infectous diseases and not just covid-19. If you don't mind taking chances, so be it. Just don't be the one who handled the door knob I have to use next. #### Metaphor ##### Adult human male Warning Level 3 Warning Level 2 Warning Level 1 Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. Patooka did make an inference that exactly follows the numerous times TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective. And TSwizzle has said that a lot. Do your own research. So what if he said they were ineffective? So what? TSwizzle said he didn't want authoritarians to force him to wear a mask. It does not follow that he wants to or should prevent others from wearing masks. I don't want the government to force people to exercise. That doesn't mean I object to people exercising of their own free will. So, you're arguing that TSwizzle thinks of himself as a special case? No. I am certain that he expects medical personnel to wear masks as required by laws governing medical procedures. I am certain that he expects masks to be worn (by dentist and assistants) when he is having a dental procedure or even a dental exam. I am certain he expects masks to be work by everyone in the surgical area should he have surgery. TSwizzle obviously thinks he should not be forced to wear a mask. I doubt he believes that others should not be so required if it protects him. I don't know what he thinks, but even if he does think his dentist or surgeon should be forced to wear a mask, that would still not necessarily be a hypocrisy. After all, dentists and doctors wear masks in particular contexts, not as a general rule of being alive in public Nor does it follow, as Patooka implied, that his principles would require him to demand other people do not wear masks. You mean particular context such as a pandemic/public health emergency???? Yes, I mean particular contexts. There are two errors being made by you and Patooka. The first error is an egregious error of reasoning; the second may merely be a mater of opinion. The egregious error is that 'TSwizzle should insist that doctors don't wear masks during surgery'. This error is egregious because it does not follow from anything TSwizzle said. It's a nonsense non-sequitur. Dante: I don't want the government to force me to attend Church. Virgil: I hope you have the courage of your convictions, and you want to ban other people from going to Church if they want to. Dante: Wat. Virgil's follow up to Dante is a ridiculous non sequitur, and it's exactly what Patooka did but he can't admit it. The second error is taking for granted that the justification for forcing people to wear masks is equivalent. Forcing a doctor to wear a mask for surgery is more justifiable than forcing a population to mask, even when an individual is alone outdoors, as happened in the early parts of the pandemic in Australia and may well be happening in other parts of the world still. #### Cheerful Charlie ##### Contributor I'm extremely comfortable with you being the only person not understanding my point. I understood your point well enough to know you're wrong. Refusing to wear a mask isn't at all the same as enforcing your personal choice on anyone else. It's really easy to understand, if that's your goal. Tom Refusing to wear a mask makes one a potential plague rat leaving ruin and tragedy in plague rat's wake. That should be easy to understand. Being stupid because you have your head up covid-19 deniers like Fuckhead Carlson's ass is not an acceptable lifestyle choice. #### Metaphor ##### Adult human male Warning Level 3 Warning Level 2 Warning Level 1 Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. Patooka did make an inference that exactly follows the numerous times TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective. And TSwizzle has said that a lot. Do your own research. So what if he said they were ineffective? So what? TSwizzle said he didn't want authoritarians to force him to wear a mask. It does not follow that he wants to or should prevent others from wearing masks. I don't want the government to force people to exercise. That doesn't mean I object to people exercising of their own free will. I'm extremely comfortable with you being the only person not understanding my point. Patooka, ask somebody on the philosophy forum if your reasoning was sound. #### TomC ##### Celestial Highness Refusing to wear a mask makes one a potential plague rat leaving ruin and tragedy in plague rat's wake. That should be easy to understand. Being stupid because you have your head up covid-19 deniers like Fuckhead Carlson's ass is not an acceptable lifestyle choice. Which was not the point I was referring to. That was the point that if @TSwizzle refused to wear a mask he was a hypocrite if he didn't force that on other people like his dentist. He didn't advocate forcing it on anyone. Tom #### Cheerful Charlie ##### Contributor Refusing to wear a mask makes one a potential plague rat leaving ruin and tragedy in plague rat's wake. That should be easy to understand. Being stupid because you have your head up covid-19 deniers like Fuckhead Carlson's ass is not an acceptable lifestyle choice. Which was not the point I was referring to. That was the point that if @TSwizzle refused to wear a mask he was a hypocrite if he didn't force that on other people like his dentist. He didn't advocate forcing it on anyone. Tom The point I was making is refusal to wear masks or get vaxxed makes one a far more likely target to get covi-19. And pass it on causing death, tragedy and suffering. He may say, "I am not forcing others to stop wearing masks!" But that is not the point. Other unwiling victims of that sort of willful stupidity is the point. Willfully raising your probability of being a plague rat, and ignoring the consequences of that is not acceptable no matter the lame excuse. #### TomC ##### Celestial Highness He may say, "I am not forcing others to stop wearing masks!" But that is not the point. OK You changed the subject to something you wish to rant about. Got it. Tom #### ZiprHead ##### Loony Running The Asylum Staff member Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. Patooka did make an inference that exactly follows the numerous times TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective. And TSwizzle has said that a lot. Do your own research. So what if he said they were ineffective? So what? TSwizzle said he didn't want authoritarians to force him to wear a mask. It does not follow that he wants to or should prevent others from wearing masks. I don't want the government to force people to exercise. That doesn't mean I object to people exercising of their own free will. So, you're arguing that TSwizzle thinks of himself as a special case? No. I am certain that he expects medical personnel to wear masks as required by laws governing medical procedures. I am certain that he expects masks to be worn (by dentist and assistants) when he is having a dental procedure or even a dental exam. I am certain he expects masks to be work by everyone in the surgical area should he have surgery. TSwizzle obviously thinks he should not be forced to wear a mask. I doubt he believes that others should not be so required if it protects him. I don't know what he thinks, but even if he does think his dentist or surgeon should be forced to wear a mask, that would still not necessarily be a hypocrisy. After all, dentists and doctors wear masks in particular contexts, not as a general rule of being alive in public Nor does it follow, as Patooka implied, that his principles would require him to demand other people do not wear masks. You mean particular context such as a pandemic/public health emergency???? Yes, I mean particular contexts. There are two errors being made by you and Patooka. The first error is an egregious error of reasoning; the second may merely be a mater of opinion. The egregious error is that 'TSwizzle should insist that doctors don't wear masks during surgery'. This error is egregious because it does not follow from anything TSwizzle said. It's a nonsense non-sequitur. Dante: I don't want the government to force me to attend Church. Virgil: I hope you have the courage of your convictions, and you want to ban other people from going to Church if they want to. Dante: Wat. Virgil's follow up to Dante is a ridiculous non sequitur, and it's exactly what Patooka did but he can't admit it. The second error is taking for granted that the justification for forcing people to wear masks is equivalent. Forcing a doctor to wear a mask for surgery is more justifiable than forcing a population to mask, even when an individual is alone outdoors, as happened in the early parts of the pandemic in Australia and may well be happening in other parts of the world still. That's a gross mischaracterization of Tswizzle's stated opinion. He has clearly and numerously stated that masks don't work without qualification. That you are ignoring those numerous statements by Swizzle is why you are wrong on this. Strange coming from someone as pedantic as you. #### Toni ##### Contributor Mask mandates don't work; New data shows Covid cases in Singapore and New Zealand have overtaken Australia in the latest Omicron wave despite ultra-strict mask mandates. Masks are worn everywhere in the densely-populated Asian city while New Zealanders are forced to wear them in all indoor public places, such as shopping centres and libraries. But both now have higher case numbers per million than Australia, where compulsory mask rules have been abandoned in most indoor settings. These figures appear to smash the push now on in Australia for a return to mask mandates, which are currently compulsory only on public transport and in aged care and healthcare centres. Daily Mail Forgot say, I was getting gas at Costco yesterday ($5.40 a gallon, thanks Brandon!!) and a guy pulled up to the pump, put a mask on, got out his car, got gas, got in his car and took his mask off. He actually put a mask on outdoors!! I'm like "where the cameras at? This fool can't be serious."
Blame your local station. Gas is just over $4/gal now, and I haven't looked at the prices today. They've dropped a few times over the last week where I live. Dropped twice yesterday; now under$4/gal

#### Toni

##### Contributor
I am certain that he expects medical personnel to wear masks as required by laws governing medical procedures. I am certain that he expects masks to be worn (by dentist and assistants) when he is having a dental procedure or even a dental exam. I am certain he expects masks to be work by everyone in the surgical area should he have surgery.

You know what pisses me off? That the doctor washes their hands and wears latex gloves before treating me. I particularly object to the latex glove when getting my prostate exam. But what am I gonna do? Thems the rules.
That would surprise me--most places no longer use latex gloves. And the digital prostate exam is no longer considered useful for screening.
Right, it's almost universally nitrile gloves. As for DRE, that was how my husband's prostate cancer was first noticed. Not specifically identified as cancer of course, but an abnormality that merited another exam by a urologist and then a biopsy. PSAs are not particularly reliable for a variety of reasons, one being that men are are not necessarily instructed to avoid ejaculation or heavy exercise for 48 hrs. before the blood draw (either can artificially elevate PSA levels).

#### Cheerful Charlie

##### Contributor
He may say, "I am not forcing others to stop wearing masks!" But that is not the point.
OK
You changed the subject to something you wish to rant about.

Got it.
Tom

No. I simply pointed out that there could be bad consequences to his wilfull ignorance. Which he obviously refuses to consider.

#### Toni

##### Contributor
This shows that the science the lockdown authoritarians were following was entirely made up;

A study of nearly 30,000 people has found asymptomatic carriers are about 68 per cent less likely to pass the virus on than those who get sick.

No10 used concerns about asymptomatic spread to justify forcing Britons to obey lockdowns and wear masks.

They were thought to account for up to a third of all infections and many scientists claimed asymptomatic patients were just as infectious as the sick. But a new global study spanning 42 countries, including the UK and US, found they were only responsible for as little as 14 per cent of cases.

Daily Mail
Oh, well, the Daily Mail. Not the best source for medical information. Also totally neglects to mention that the newest variants are much more highly contagious than the original highly contagious version of COVID19. This would explain, at least in part, why previously effective measures are not as effective in NZ and other places with strict mandates.

68% less likely is not nearly the same thing as 100% less likely or not at all likely. Asymptomatic spread is real, even if degree of illness is to some extent dependent upon viral load and even if likelihood of infecting others is dependent upon viral load.

Being symptom free does not mean you are unable to spread COVID19.

#### Toni

##### Contributor
Why would letting someone else wear a mask mean TSwizzle wasn't 'sticking to his principles'?
Do a search, and count the amount of time TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective.
That does not answer my question.

Saying "I refuse to wear a mask because they are ineffective" does not conflict with allowing other people to wear or not wear masks as they please.

Indeed, if TSwizzle did as you asked, it would be hypocrisy. It would be an authoritarian demand to impose his preferences on others.
You’re missing the point: I would expect TSwizzle or any person who is even moderately competent to be quite upset if their dentist and/or dental hygienist started to perform work on them without wearing a mask. It would be unsafe for both patient and health care workers. It is unlikely that TSwizzle would suggest much less insist or even accept that dental procedures be performed under such conditions.
No. You are missing the point. Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. He was using bad reasoning solely in order to attack TSwizzle.
No, he was arguing against TSwizzle's anti-masking posts.

Only an absolute idiot would want any dental hygienist or dentist to perform an exam or procedures unless they were properly masked and gloved. I don't often agree with TSwizzle but I don't think he's an idiot and I DO think that he'd balk at being examined by dental care providers who are not masked. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe TSwizzle is indifferent to the health risks he would assume and even more indifferent to the health risks his dental care providers would assume if they worked without masks and gloves.

#### Metaphor

##### Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Why would letting someone else wear a mask mean TSwizzle wasn't 'sticking to his principles'?
Do a search, and count the amount of time TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective.
That does not answer my question.

Saying "I refuse to wear a mask because they are ineffective" does not conflict with allowing other people to wear or not wear masks as they please.

Indeed, if TSwizzle did as you asked, it would be hypocrisy. It would be an authoritarian demand to impose his preferences on others.
You’re missing the point: I would expect TSwizzle or any person who is even moderately competent to be quite upset if their dentist and/or dental hygienist started to perform work on them without wearing a mask. It would be unsafe for both patient and health care workers. It is unlikely that TSwizzle would suggest much less insist or even accept that dental procedures be performed under such conditions.
No. You are missing the point. Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. He was using bad reasoning solely in order to attack TSwizzle.
No, he was arguing against TSwizzle's anti-masking posts.

Only an absolute idiot would want any dental hygienist or dentist to perform an exam or procedures unless they were properly masked and gloved. I don't often agree with TSwizzle but I don't think he's an idiot and I DO think that he'd balk at being examined by dental care providers who are not masked.
Completely and totally irrelevant. TSwizzle may or may not think forced masking in dental situations is warranted. That is logically separate from forced masking for the general public in the COVID context. They're different contexts.

So, there is nothing inconsistent with TSwizzle saying "I want my dentist to be masked when he works on me" and "I detest the authoritarian mask prescriptions they are putting on the general public."

Much the less did Patooka's claim - that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he must insist on an authoritarian removal of masks from others who are wearing them - have any merit at all.

I'm sorry you and Patooka don't understand your faulty reasoning.

#### Metaphor

##### Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments.
Patooka did make an inference that exactly follows the numerous times TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective. And TSwizzle has said that a lot. Do your own research.
So what if he said they were ineffective? So what? TSwizzle said he didn't want authoritarians to force him to wear a mask. It does not follow that he wants to or should prevent others from wearing masks.

I don't want the government to force people to exercise. That doesn't mean I object to people exercising of their own free will.
So, you're arguing that TSwizzle thinks of himself as a special case?
No.

I am certain that he expects medical personnel to wear masks as required by laws governing medical procedures. I am certain that he expects masks to be worn (by dentist and assistants) when he is having a dental procedure or even a dental exam. I am certain he expects masks to be work by everyone in the surgical area should he have surgery.

TSwizzle obviously thinks he should not be forced to wear a mask. I doubt he believes that others should not be so required if it protects him.
I don't know what he thinks, but even if he does think his dentist or surgeon should be forced to wear a mask, that would still not necessarily be a hypocrisy. After all, dentists and doctors wear masks in particular contexts, not as a general rule of being alive in public

Nor does it follow, as Patooka implied, that his principles would require him to demand other people do not wear masks.
You mean particular context such as a pandemic/public health emergency????
Yes, I mean particular contexts.

There are two errors being made by you and Patooka. The first error is an egregious error of reasoning; the second may merely be a mater of opinion.

The egregious error is that 'TSwizzle should insist that doctors don't wear masks during surgery'. This error is egregious because it does not follow from anything TSwizzle said. It's a nonsense non-sequitur.

Dante: I don't want the government to force me to attend Church.
Virgil: I hope you have the courage of your convictions, and you want to ban other people from going to Church if they want to.
Dante: Wat.

Virgil's follow up to Dante is a ridiculous non sequitur, and it's exactly what Patooka did but he can't admit it.

The second error is taking for granted that the justification for forcing people to wear masks is equivalent. Forcing a doctor to wear a mask for surgery is more justifiable than forcing a population to mask, even when an individual is alone outdoors, as happened in the early parts of the pandemic in Australia and may well be happening in other parts of the world still.
That's a gross mischaracterization of Tswizzle's stated opinion. He has clearly and numerously stated that masks don't work without qualification. That you are ignoring those numerous statements by Swizzle is why you are wrong on this. Strange coming from someone as pedantic as you.
Totally irrelevant. Even if TSwizzle uttered the words 'masks don't work--for any situation at all, for COVID-19 reduction, for stopping bad breath, for germ transference in surgery', it would STILL not require him to insist others remove masks from their own faces.

#### Patooka

##### Contributor
Patooka, ask somebody on the philosophy forum if your reasoning was sound.
I will. 3 weeks after I get a blowjob from a unicorn. Which I suspect will happen 6 weeks after Hell freezes over.

Or to put it another way - no.

#### Metaphor

##### Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Patooka, ask somebody on the philosophy forum if your reasoning was sound.
I will. 3 weeks after I get a blowjob from a unicorn. Which I suspect will happen 6 weeks after Hell freezes over.

Or to put it another way - no.
I'm sorry you don't wish to improve your reasoning.

#### Toni

##### Contributor
Why would letting someone else wear a mask mean TSwizzle wasn't 'sticking to his principles'?
Do a search, and count the amount of time TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective.
That does not answer my question.

Saying "I refuse to wear a mask because they are ineffective" does not conflict with allowing other people to wear or not wear masks as they please.

Indeed, if TSwizzle did as you asked, it would be hypocrisy. It would be an authoritarian demand to impose his preferences on others.
You’re missing the point: I would expect TSwizzle or any person who is even moderately competent to be quite upset if their dentist and/or dental hygienist started to perform work on them without wearing a mask. It would be unsafe for both patient and health care workers. It is unlikely that TSwizzle would suggest much less insist or even accept that dental procedures be performed under such conditions.
No. You are missing the point. Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. He was using bad reasoning solely in order to attack TSwizzle.
No, he was arguing against TSwizzle's anti-masking posts.

Only an absolute idiot would want any dental hygienist or dentist to perform an exam or procedures unless they were properly masked and gloved. I don't often agree with TSwizzle but I don't think he's an idiot and I DO think that he'd balk at being examined by dental care providers who are not masked.
Completely and totally irrelevant. TSwizzle may or may not think forced masking in dental situations is warranted. That is logically separate from forced masking for the general public in the COVID context. They're different contexts.

So, there is nothing inconsistent with TSwizzle saying "I want my dentist to be masked when he works on me" and "I detest the authoritarian mask prescriptions they are putting on the general public."

Much the less did Patooka's claim - that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he must insist on an authoritarian removal of masks from others who are wearing them - have any merit at all.

I'm sorry you and Patooka don't understand your faulty reasoning.
My reasoning isn't faulty. It appears that TSwizzle believes he can dictate public policy and he is happy to enjoy the protections public policy provides him in medical situations.

#### TSwizzle

##### Let's Go Brandon!
This shows that the science the lockdown authoritarians were following was entirely made up;

A study of nearly 30,000 people has found asymptomatic carriers are about 68 per cent less likely to pass the virus on than those who get sick.

No10 used concerns about asymptomatic spread to justify forcing Britons to obey lockdowns and wear masks.

They were thought to account for up to a third of all infections and many scientists claimed asymptomatic patients were just as infectious as the sick. But a new global study spanning 42 countries, including the UK and US, found they were only responsible for as little as 14 per cent of cases.

Daily Mail
Oh, well, the Daily Mail. Not the best source for medical information.
Says you.

Also totally neglects to mention that the newest variants are much more highly contagious than the original highly contagious version of COVID19.

It’s a study on a Covid-19 not other variants. I suspect you know this.
This would explain, at least in part, why previously effective measures are not as effective in NZ and other places with strict mandates.
This also explains that none of the draconian lockdown measures work.
68% less likely is not nearly the same thing as 100% less likely or not at all likely. Asymptomatic spread is real, even if degree of illness is to some extent dependent upon viral load and even if likelihood of infecting others is dependent upon viral load.

Being symptom free does not mean you are unable to spread COVID19.

So what? Stay home if you are scared. The vast majority of us are getting on with things and not cooperating with the bullshit any longer.

#### Patooka

##### Contributor
I'm sorry you don't wish to improve your reasoning.
I learned a long time ago some cunts can't be reasoned with. They'll pretend and say the right words but in the end, they're just cunts. I think they are called "Debate Lords" nowadays.

Doesn't matter. They can go and get fucked. That simple.

#### Metaphor

##### Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Why would letting someone else wear a mask mean TSwizzle wasn't 'sticking to his principles'?
Do a search, and count the amount of time TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective.
That does not answer my question.

Saying "I refuse to wear a mask because they are ineffective" does not conflict with allowing other people to wear or not wear masks as they please.

Indeed, if TSwizzle did as you asked, it would be hypocrisy. It would be an authoritarian demand to impose his preferences on others.
You’re missing the point: I would expect TSwizzle or any person who is even moderately competent to be quite upset if their dentist and/or dental hygienist started to perform work on them without wearing a mask. It would be unsafe for both patient and health care workers. It is unlikely that TSwizzle would suggest much less insist or even accept that dental procedures be performed under such conditions.
No. You are missing the point. Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. He was using bad reasoning solely in order to attack TSwizzle.
No, he was arguing against TSwizzle's anti-masking posts.

Only an absolute idiot would want any dental hygienist or dentist to perform an exam or procedures unless they were properly masked and gloved. I don't often agree with TSwizzle but I don't think he's an idiot and I DO think that he'd balk at being examined by dental care providers who are not masked.
Completely and totally irrelevant. TSwizzle may or may not think forced masking in dental situations is warranted. That is logically separate from forced masking for the general public in the COVID context. They're different contexts.

So, there is nothing inconsistent with TSwizzle saying "I want my dentist to be masked when he works on me" and "I detest the authoritarian mask prescriptions they are putting on the general public."

Much the less did Patooka's claim - that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he must insist on an authoritarian removal of masks from others who are wearing them - have any merit at all.

I'm sorry you and Patooka don't understand your faulty reasoning.
My reasoning isn't faulty. It appears that TSwizzle believes he can dictate public policy and he is happy to enjoy the protections public policy provides him in medical situations.
Where did TSwizzle claim he wanted to 'dictate' public policy? What makes you think surgeons are forced to wear masks in surgeries by 'public policy' and not internal policy?

What makes you think that refusing to wear a mask in situations you disagree with somehow means you must simultaneously rip the masks off other people?

#### Metaphor

##### Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
I'm sorry you don't wish to improve your reasoning.
I learned a long time ago some cunts can't be reasoned with. They'll pretend and say the right words but in the end, they're just cunts. I think they are called "Debate Lords" nowadays.

Doesn't matter. They can go and get fucked. That simple.
Yes. I agree that "some cunts can't be reasoned with".

#### Toni

##### Contributor
Why would letting someone else wear a mask mean TSwizzle wasn't 'sticking to his principles'?
Do a search, and count the amount of time TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective.
That does not answer my question.

Saying "I refuse to wear a mask because they are ineffective" does not conflict with allowing other people to wear or not wear masks as they please.

Indeed, if TSwizzle did as you asked, it would be hypocrisy. It would be an authoritarian demand to impose his preferences on others.
You’re missing the point: I would expect TSwizzle or any person who is even moderately competent to be quite upset if their dentist and/or dental hygienist started to perform work on them without wearing a mask. It would be unsafe for both patient and health care workers. It is unlikely that TSwizzle would suggest much less insist or even accept that dental procedures be performed under such conditions.
No. You are missing the point. Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. He was using bad reasoning solely in order to attack TSwizzle.
No, he was arguing against TSwizzle's anti-masking posts.

Only an absolute idiot would want any dental hygienist or dentist to perform an exam or procedures unless they were properly masked and gloved. I don't often agree with TSwizzle but I don't think he's an idiot and I DO think that he'd balk at being examined by dental care providers who are not masked.
Completely and totally irrelevant. TSwizzle may or may not think forced masking in dental situations is warranted. That is logically separate from forced masking for the general public in the COVID context. They're different contexts.

So, there is nothing inconsistent with TSwizzle saying "I want my dentist to be masked when he works on me" and "I detest the authoritarian mask prescriptions they are putting on the general public."

Much the less did Patooka's claim - that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he must insist on an authoritarian removal of masks from others who are wearing them - have any merit at all.

I'm sorry you and Patooka don't understand your faulty reasoning.
My reasoning isn't faulty. It appears that TSwizzle believes he can dictate public policy and he is happy to enjoy the protections public policy provides him in medical situations.
Where did TSwizzle claim he wanted to 'dictate' public policy? What makes you think surgeons are forced to wear masks in surgeries by 'public policy' and not internal policy?

What makes you think that refusing to wear a mask in situations you disagree with somehow means you must simultaneously rip the masks off other people?
Who said anything about ripping masks off of other people?

In the US, there is indeed public health regulations that require precautions to be taken by medical personnel. Medical facilities may impose more precautions but they cannot do less.

#### Toni

##### Contributor
I'm sorry you don't wish to improve your reasoning.
I learned a long time ago some cunts can't be reasoned with. They'll pretend and say the right words but in the end, they're just cunts. I think they are called "Debate Lords" nowadays.

Doesn't matter. They can go and get fucked. That simple.
Yes. I agree that "some cunts can't be reasoned with".
I think it's the dicks that are irrational.

#### Metaphor

##### Adult human male
Warning Level 3
Warning Level 2
Warning Level 1
Why would letting someone else wear a mask mean TSwizzle wasn't 'sticking to his principles'?
Do a search, and count the amount of time TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective.
That does not answer my question.

Saying "I refuse to wear a mask because they are ineffective" does not conflict with allowing other people to wear or not wear masks as they please.

Indeed, if TSwizzle did as you asked, it would be hypocrisy. It would be an authoritarian demand to impose his preferences on others.
You’re missing the point: I would expect TSwizzle or any person who is even moderately competent to be quite upset if their dentist and/or dental hygienist started to perform work on them without wearing a mask. It would be unsafe for both patient and health care workers. It is unlikely that TSwizzle would suggest much less insist or even accept that dental procedures be performed under such conditions.
No. You are missing the point. Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. He was using bad reasoning solely in order to attack TSwizzle.
No, he was arguing against TSwizzle's anti-masking posts.

Only an absolute idiot would want any dental hygienist or dentist to perform an exam or procedures unless they were properly masked and gloved. I don't often agree with TSwizzle but I don't think he's an idiot and I DO think that he'd balk at being examined by dental care providers who are not masked.
Completely and totally irrelevant. TSwizzle may or may not think forced masking in dental situations is warranted. That is logically separate from forced masking for the general public in the COVID context. They're different contexts.

So, there is nothing inconsistent with TSwizzle saying "I want my dentist to be masked when he works on me" and "I detest the authoritarian mask prescriptions they are putting on the general public."

Much the less did Patooka's claim - that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he must insist on an authoritarian removal of masks from others who are wearing them - have any merit at all.

I'm sorry you and Patooka don't understand your faulty reasoning.
My reasoning isn't faulty. It appears that TSwizzle believes he can dictate public policy and he is happy to enjoy the protections public policy provides him in medical situations.
Where did TSwizzle claim he wanted to 'dictate' public policy? What makes you think surgeons are forced to wear masks in surgeries by 'public policy' and not internal policy?

What makes you think that refusing to wear a mask in situations you disagree with somehow means you must simultaneously rip the masks off other people?
Who said anything about ripping masks off of other people?
Patooka claimed that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he should insist his surgeon not wear a mask. That does not follow from TSwizzle's statements.

In the US, there is indeed public health regulations that require precautions to be taken by medical personnel. Medical facilities may impose more precautions but they cannot do less.
So, why would TSwizzle ask his surgeon to not wear a mask during surgery? The surgeon wearing a mask during surgery doesn't impose on TSwizzle. In any case, it does not follow that because TSwizzle doesn't want to wear a mask, that he wants to stop other people wearing a mask.

#### Toni

##### Contributor
Why would letting someone else wear a mask mean TSwizzle wasn't 'sticking to his principles'?
Do a search, and count the amount of time TSwizzle has said masks are ineffective.
That does not answer my question.

Saying "I refuse to wear a mask because they are ineffective" does not conflict with allowing other people to wear or not wear masks as they please.

Indeed, if TSwizzle did as you asked, it would be hypocrisy. It would be an authoritarian demand to impose his preferences on others.
You’re missing the point: I would expect TSwizzle or any person who is even moderately competent to be quite upset if their dentist and/or dental hygienist started to perform work on them without wearing a mask. It would be unsafe for both patient and health care workers. It is unlikely that TSwizzle would suggest much less insist or even accept that dental procedures be performed under such conditions.
No. You are missing the point. Patooka made an inference that did not follow from TSwizzle's stated comments. He was using bad reasoning solely in order to attack TSwizzle.
No, he was arguing against TSwizzle's anti-masking posts.

Only an absolute idiot would want any dental hygienist or dentist to perform an exam or procedures unless they were properly masked and gloved. I don't often agree with TSwizzle but I don't think he's an idiot and I DO think that he'd balk at being examined by dental care providers who are not masked.
Completely and totally irrelevant. TSwizzle may or may not think forced masking in dental situations is warranted. That is logically separate from forced masking for the general public in the COVID context. They're different contexts.

So, there is nothing inconsistent with TSwizzle saying "I want my dentist to be masked when he works on me" and "I detest the authoritarian mask prescriptions they are putting on the general public."

Much the less did Patooka's claim - that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he must insist on an authoritarian removal of masks from others who are wearing them - have any merit at all.

I'm sorry you and Patooka don't understand your faulty reasoning.
My reasoning isn't faulty. It appears that TSwizzle believes he can dictate public policy and he is happy to enjoy the protections public policy provides him in medical situations.
Where did TSwizzle claim he wanted to 'dictate' public policy? What makes you think surgeons are forced to wear masks in surgeries by 'public policy' and not internal policy?

What makes you think that refusing to wear a mask in situations you disagree with somehow means you must simultaneously rip the masks off other people?
Who said anything about ripping masks off of other people?
Patooka claimed that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he should insist his surgeon not wear a mask. That does not follow from TSwizzle's statements.

In the US, there is indeed public health regulations that require precautions to be taken by medical personnel. Medical facilities may impose more precautions but they cannot do less.
So, why would TSwizzle ask his surgeon to not wear a mask during surgery? The surgeon wearing a mask during surgery doesn't impose on TSwizzle. In any case, it does not follow that because TSwizzle doesn't want to wear a mask, that he wants to stop other people wearing a mask.
It's obvious that TSwizzle wants and depends upon others to do what is needed to protect him and his health and does not care to reciprocate.

##### Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Patooka claimed that for TSwizzle to be 'consistent', he should insist his surgeon not wear a mask. That does not follow from TSwizzle's statements.
This above is just silly. TS has repeatedly claimed masks don't work and has gone on tirades against mandatory mask mandates. A surgeon wearing a mask is because of mandatory mask mandates.

##### Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Joe Biden has Covid. He's fully vaxed and boosted, showing mild symptoms. Being treated with Paxlovid.

#### Elixir

##### Made in America
Joe Biden has Covid. He's fully vaxed and boosted, showing mild symptoms. Being treated with Paxlovid.
Oh great. Now he'll be even harder to understand.
Hey, I love Joe, think he's a very fine person.
Wish we had a President who could fire the right (left) people up.

#### TomC

##### Celestial Highness
It's obvious that TSwizzle wants and depends upon others to do what is needed to protect him and his health and does not care to reciprocate.

TS has repeatedly claimed masks don't work and has gone on tirades against mandatory mask mandates. A surgeon wearing a mask is because of mandatory mask mandates.
This kind of mischaracterization is annoying and not too honest.

TSwizzle has claimed that public masking is useless against C19. I disagree, but that's what he's said. That's not the same as having standards in other sorts of situations like dentists and surgeons.

It's like having different standards for rest and alcohol intake concerning passenger jet pilots and grocery store cashiers. It's not hypocritical, it's recognizing the reality of risk levels.
Tom

##### Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
It's obvious that TSwizzle wants and depends upon others to do what is needed to protect him and his health and does not care to reciprocate.

TS has repeatedly claimed masks don't work and has gone on tirades against mandatory mask mandates. A surgeon wearing a mask is because of mandatory mask mandates.
This kind of mischaracterization is annoying and not too honest.

TSwizzle has claimed that public masking is useless against C19. I disagree, but that's what he's said. That's not the same as having standards in other sorts of situations like dentists and surgeons.

It's like having different standards for rest and alcohol intake concerning passenger jet pilots and grocery store cashiers. It's not hypocritical, it's recognizing the reality of risk levels.
Tom
Can you point to a TS comment in line with your interpretation? Just one, please.

#### TSwizzle

##### Let's Go Brandon!
Brandon has tested positive for covid. Let’s hope it’s nothing serious. Harris is a idiot altogether.

#### thebeave

##### Veteran Member
Joe Biden has Covid. He's fully vaxed and boosted, showing mild symptoms. Being treated with Paxlovid.
Great. He announced yesterday that he has cancer, and now Covid. This is grim. On the bright side, we may soon get our first half black-half Indian female POTUS!