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HBO to make film of Scientology book, hires 160 lawyers

... and to have earned 21 mefals, some of which did not exist.
Oh, i hate it when that happens.

What a lightweight. I have 22 medals, and none of them exist.

Reminds me of Arnold J Rimmer, BSc, SSc.

Everyone looks suitably impressed by these qualifications, and then someone asks "What is an SSc?", to which he proudly replies

Silver Swimming Certificate.

:D

 
Hubbard was posted to the Philippines but never made it there as the Japanese overran the Philippines and Hubbard instead ended up in Australia. He commanded PC 813 for 90 days off the West coast. He never saw combat. Records show Hubbard's "injuries"were arthritis, and ulcers,for which he received a small amount of money from the VA, no other wounds as he claimed later. Hubbard claimed to have been wounded by Japanese machine gun fire, damaged eyes from an artillary shell explosion, and to have earned 21 mefals, some of which did not exist.

This is largely the version that has been stated earlier and will possibly persist to be and without consideration to the new evidence. The evidence now suggests he was where earlier it was claimed he never was. The records also serve to validate the poorly presented testimony by Navy Lt. Commander Thomas S. Moulton who served with Hubbard.

For instance you can see the statements regarding the eye injuries which I highlighed in black.
http://scientologymyths.com/hubbardww2.htm#Combat2

INJURED

Was Hubbard ever injured during World War II?

At the end of the war, Hubbard received 40% disability from the Veteran's Administration (VA). Was any of it related to war or combat injuries?

There is little doubt based on Hubbard's service record that he injured his eyes at some point while in the South Pacific. Earlier researchers, such as Miller, Atack, Owen and Lawrence Wright, do not seem to have been aware of the difference between "conjunctivitis" and "actinic conjunctivitis".[123] [124] [125] [126] For that reason, it's useful to review the difference between the two:

"Conjunctivitis" - a bacterial/viral based infection of the eye, also known as "pink eye",[127] and;
"Actinic conjunctivitis" - physical damage to the eye caused by intense UV (ultraviolet) radiation, such as that caused by an explosion, unprotected staring at welder's sparks, sun reflection on snow/water, etc.; sometimes called "eye burn" or "photokeratitis".[128]
In Hubbard's case, he was diagnosed with chronic "actinic conjunctivitis"[129] which indicates that the source of the UV was highly prolonged or severe, such as being on a raft at sea (a highly reflective surface) for several days or from an explosion, gun flash, etc.[130] From the records, the injury took place while Hubbard was in the South Pacific.[131] In other words, something must have "blinded" Hubbard while in the region. In most cases, actinic conjunctivitis fades away quickly, within a day or two, if the source of the UV did not cause lasting damage. If the source(s) were especially prolonged, highly reflective or made worse by multiple occurrences, then it could become long-term or chronic,[132] indicating that the underlying injury did not heal after several weeks, months or years, as in Hubbard's case.
 
So...an injury that could have been caused by a combat explosion or maintenance or being topside for prolonged periods in the bright sun of the south Pacific is offered as evidence that he was in combat while he was stationed at sea in the south pacific....

That's compelling.
 
Hubbard suffered from repeat bouts of conjunctivitis - pink eye! Nothing to do with war injuries or bright sunlight. His records show he recieved VA money for rheumatoid arthritis. All the claims about Hubbard's brilliant war record came from Hubbard. His early Scientology books often had little biographies where Hubbo made these claims. Some claims were found in his collected letters et al, including the lie his eyes were injured in an artillary shell incident from a letter he wrote to his parents. One has to be a champion liar to lie like that to your family. On inglorious return from Australia, he had the flu and was briefly quarantined in Honolulu. Later he'd claim to be the first wounded service man to return from the Pacific theater of war. His tapes of which there are many, were source of some of these lies and many, many more. His liee about being wounded byJapanese machine guns was a lie he told his seconf of command aboard PC815, Moulton. He had trouble pissing due having the clap. But that wasn't as glorious a story.

For more than you want to know;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard
 
So...an injury that could have been caused by a combat explosion or maintenance or being topside for prolonged periods in the bright sun of the south Pacific is offered as evidence that he was in combat while he was stationed at sea in the south pacific....

That's compelling.

A little more than that. However at least you are commenting on the actual evidence presented rather than repeating previous accounts which to some of the other posters are 'gospel.' http://scientologymyths.com/hubbardww2.htm#Injured2 This narrows things down a little.

In Hubbard's case, he was diagnosed with chronic "actinic conjunctivitis"[129] which indicates that the source of the UV was highly prolonged or severe, such as being on a raft at sea (a highly reflective surface) for several days or from an explosion, gun flash, etc.[130] From the records, the injury took place while Hubbard was in the South Pacific.[131] In other words, something must have "blinded" Hubbard while in the region. In most cases, actinic conjunctivitis fades away quickly, within a day or two, if the source of the UV did not cause lasting damage. If the source(s) were especially prolonged, highly reflective or made worse by multiple occurrences, then it could become long-term or chronic,[132] indicating that the underlying injury did not heal after several weeks, months or years, as in Hubbard's case. END OF QUOTE

- - - Updated - - -

Hubbard suffered from repeat bouts of conjunctivitis - pink eye! Nothing to do with war injuries or bright sunlight. His records show he recieved VA money for rheumatoid arthritis. All the claims about Hubbard's brilliant war record came from Hubbard. His early Scientology books often had little biographies where Hubbo made these claims. Some claims were found in his collected letters et al, including the lie his eyes were injured in an artillary shell incident from a letter he wrote to his parents. One has to be a champion liar to lie like that to your family. On inglorious return from Australia, he had the flu and was briefly quarantined in Honolulu. Later he'd claim to be the first wounded service man to return from the Pacific theater of war. His tapes of which there are many, were source of some of these lies and many, many more. His liee about being wounded byJapanese machine guns was a lie he told his seconf of command aboard PC815, Moulton. He had trouble pissing due having the clap. But that wasn't as glorious a story.

For more than you want to know;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard

Your source is wrong given the military records which you failed to grasp.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry I meant to say did not want to face.
 
Did Hubbard see combat at any time during World War II?
New documentation has been discovered which shows that Hubbard was in fact sent into a combat zone while in the South Pacific.
Um...does time in a combat ZONE conclusively show that the individual saw COMBAT?

Not in itself.
 
Not in itself.
Also known as "no."

Hubbard never was engaged in battle in any combat zone,because he never was in a combat zone. Hubbard briefly served on the East coast and West coast, neither were considered combat zones.
He was never in command of a fleet of corvettes.
He never served aboard a ship called the Henderson.
He never commanded an anti-aircraft unit in Australia.
He was never aboard a ship called the Edsall, sunk by the Japanese.
All are claims from Hubbard. With a record of lies by Hubbard, its not like anything about Hubbard's claims or Scientology's can be taken at face value.

Nor were these war claims the only notable lies from Hubbard. He repeatedly lied about being a nuclear physicist for example. His penchant for grandiose lying is well known and documented.
 
Nor were these war claims the only notable lies from Hubbard. He repeatedly lied about being a nuclear physicist for example. His penchant for grandiose lying is well known and documented.

Yes, it is. But scientology indoctrination instills a way of thinking that is the opposite of critical thinking. When faced with a mountain of lies, patterns of lies, policies that promote lying, decades of lying, and even Hubbard himself openly explaining how he's lying to them, scientologists will still find a speck of dust that was not exactly the shade of brownish-gray that the critic said it was. So there. Critics are lying!

They can't help it. Scientology is a kind of odd masterpiece of manipulative techniques. L. Ron sure knew a lot of ways to manipulate, but he failed miserably in one respect (failed in many respects, but one mainly): he did not turn his critical attention toward himself. Instead of engaging honest self-reflection, the old goat instead spent his brain power on justifying his crimes, criminalizing anyone who frightened him or disagreed with him, and making up wild tales to puff himself up.

What started out as something that could have been developed without the borg-like evangelism and delusional authoritarianism into something that might have been useful to humanity. But don't think I'm lamenting this - there is nothing offered by scientology that can't be had elsewhere and without the slavery and mindfuck to go with it. Well, except for the 50's sci-fi fantasy cosmology. That's uniquely scientological, but even that is not very original.

Some of the tricks Hubbard implemented are linguistic, some rely on common human fears/desires, some on the ego and emotions, some on repetition, some on faking appearances, but all rely on dishonesty.
 
And yet more on Elron the war hero. This is a very thorough and amusing examination of Hubbard's WWII exploits bt Chris Owen. I am glad to see this is still around.




http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/warhero/intro.htm

This is out of date and addressed in the research I mentioned. Do I need to quote exactly where the fault lies? Also Chris Owens and others were wrong about the type of conjunctivitis.

It's garbage. This document for examples takes Hubbard's tall tale to Moulton about being aboard the ill fated Edsall seriously, but that's simply untrue. He never served on that boat. This thing claims Hubbard's eyesight suffered as he drifted on a lifeboat for days. But Hubbard himself gave varying stories. One version that he suffered from muzzle flashees aboard the Edsall, another version in a letter to his family that he was injured by an exploding artillery shell.

Owen's history which I posted a link to thoroughly shows Hubbard's military career which leaves no room for these claims of Hubbard's.
His where abouts and official doings are not mysterious. And if Hubbard had done that, it would be well documented in Naval records. There isn't a whisper of any of Hubbard's adventures in Java to be found.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Edsall_(DD-219)

L. Ron Hubbard Claim[edit]

L. Ron Hubbard claimed he served on the Edsall during WWII. Following its sinking he swam to shore, and remained in the jungle as the ship's sole survivor. He claimed that this is where he was during the bombing of Pearl Harbor, despite the fact that the Edsall was sunk in (March 1) 1942, and the U.S. Navy has no record of his service on the ship. Navy records show that Hubbard was in training in New York when WWII broke out. He was supposed to be posted to the Philippines, but his ship was diverted to Australia. There he angered the Naval Attache for assuming "unauthorized duties," he was relieved from his assignment and returned to the United States. [1]

On March1 1942, Hubbard had just been sent to New York to work as a navy censor after being expelled from Australia.
 
This is out of date and addressed in the research I mentioned. Do I need to quote exactly where the fault lies? Also Chris Owens and others were wrong about the type of conjunctivitis.

It's garbage. This document for examples takes Hubbard's tall tale to Moulton about being aboard the ill fated Edsall seriously, but that's simply untrue. He never served on that boat. This thing claims Hubbard's eyesight suffered as he drifted on a lifeboat for days. But Hubbard himself gave varying stories. One version that he suffered from muzzle flashees aboard the Edsall, another version in a letter to his family that he was injured by an exploding artillery shell.

Owen's history which I posted a link to thoroughly shows Hubbard's military career which leaves no room for these claims of Hubbard's.
His where abouts and official doings are not mysterious. And if Hubbard had done that, it would be well documented in Naval records. There isn't a whisper of any of Hubbard's adventures in Java to be found.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Edsall_(DD-219)

L. Ron Hubbard Claim[edit]

L. Ron Hubbard claimed he served on the Edsall during WWII. Following its sinking he swam to shore, and remained in the jungle as the ship's sole survivor. He claimed that this is where he was during the bombing of Pearl Harbor, despite the fact that the Edsall was sunk in (March 1) 1942, and the U.S. Navy has no record of his service on the ship. Navy records show that Hubbard was in training in New York when WWII broke out. He was supposed to be posted to the Philippines, but his ship was diverted to Australia. There he angered the Naval Attache for assuming "unauthorized duties," he was relieved from his assignment and returned to the United States. [1]

On March1 1942, Hubbard had just been sent to New York to work as a navy censor after being expelled from Australia.

You are not addressing the actual evidence and what it states, which is from more complete Naval records. I suppose if I showed you the documents you would turn your head away. I've seen such things happen though also with other topics.
 
Nor were these war claims the only notable lies from Hubbard. He repeatedly lied about being a nuclear physicist for example. His penchant for grandiose lying is well known and documented.

Yes, it is. But scientology indoctrination instills a way of thinking that is the opposite of critical thinking. When faced with a mountain of lies, patterns of lies, policies that promote lying, decades of lying, and even Hubbard himself openly explaining how he's lying to them, scientologists will still find a speck of dust that was not exactly the shade of brownish-gray that the critic said it was. So there. Critics are lying!

They can't help it. Scientology is a kind of odd masterpiece of manipulative techniques. L. Ron sure knew a lot of ways to manipulate, but he failed miserably in one respect (failed in many respects, but one mainly): he did not turn his critical attention toward himself. Instead of engaging honest self-reflection, the old goat instead spent his brain power on justifying his crimes, criminalizing anyone who frightened him or disagreed with him, and making up wild tales to puff himself up.

What started out as something that could have been developed without the borg-like evangelism and delusional authoritarianism into something that might have been useful to humanity. But don't think I'm lamenting this - there is nothing offered by scientology that can't be had elsewhere and without the slavery and mindfuck to go with it. Well, except for the 50's sci-fi fantasy cosmology. That's uniquely scientological, but even that is not very original.

Some of the tricks Hubbard implemented are linguistic, some rely on common human fears/desires, some on the ego and emotions, some on repetition, some on faking appearances, but all rely on dishonesty.

This of course has nothing to do with the evidence presented which Cheerful Charlie probarbly didn't look at and you may have in part but don't want to know. As I also explained before with reference to the Written document by Hubbard (Technique 88) this is about the tactics of others. It only goes to show that some people still have flat earth syndrome.
 
In Hubbard's case, he was diagnosed with chronic "actinic conjunctivitis"[129] which indicates that the source of the UV was highly prolonged or severe, such as being on a raft at sea (a highly reflective surface) for several days or from an explosion, gun flash, etc.[130]
Yes, i did notice the word 'chronic' the first time. I also read where there were multiple possible pathologies for the condition, of which combat was only one. So this doesn't really 'narrow down' that it was a combat-related condition.

There are also explosions and gun flashes that occur outside of combat. Training exercises and accidents do happen. There are plenty of explanations which do not require combat exposure.

From the records, the injury took place while Hubbard was in the South Pacific.[131] In other words, something must have "blinded" Hubbard while in the region.
Yes, something. Two of my shipmates were nearly permanently blinded by a prank involving black powder at a Civil War reenactment while i was in.
A couple more were nearly killed because they were topside to view the firing of a gun and too close. The safety officer caught them only after the shoot was delayed for something else.
Someone else pointed binoculars directly at the sun when he was trying to locate a plane we heard...

There are lots of things that could happen to one's eyesight, none of which demand combat.

When you say you have 'new evidence' you seem to be leaning towards the creationist version of the word.

How this moves us closer to actual evidence of combat is a mystery...
 
Yes, i did notice the word 'chronic' the first time. I also read where there were multiple possible pathologies for the condition, of which combat was only one. So this doesn't really 'narrow down' that it was a combat-related condition.

There are also explosions and gun flashes that occur outside of combat. Training exercises and accidents do happen.
Especially with Hubbard.
Isn't he the one who provoked a diplomatic incident with Mexico by ordering his gunners to train... using an island in Mexico waters as target?
 
Yes, it is. But scientology indoctrination instills a way of thinking that is the opposite of critical thinking. When faced with a mountain of lies, patterns of lies, policies that promote lying, decades of lying, and even Hubbard himself openly explaining how he's lying to them, scientologists will still find a speck of dust that was not exactly the shade of brownish-gray that the critic said it was. So there. Critics are lying!

They can't help it. Scientology is a kind of odd masterpiece of manipulative techniques. L. Ron sure knew a lot of ways to manipulate, but he failed miserably in one respect (failed in many respects, but one mainly): he did not turn his critical attention toward himself. Instead of engaging honest self-reflection, the old goat instead spent his brain power on justifying his crimes, criminalizing anyone who frightened him or disagreed with him, and making up wild tales to puff himself up.

What started out as something that could have been developed without the borg-like evangelism and delusional authoritarianism into something that might have been useful to humanity. But don't think I'm lamenting this - there is nothing offered by scientology that can't be had elsewhere and without the slavery and mindfuck to go with it. Well, except for the 50's sci-fi fantasy cosmology. That's uniquely scientological, but even that is not very original.

Some of the tricks Hubbard implemented are linguistic, some rely on common human fears/desires, some on the ego and emotions, some on repetition, some on faking appearances, but all rely on dishonesty.

This of course has nothing to do with the evidence presented which Cheerful Charlie probarbly didn't look at and you may have in part but don't want to know. As I also explained before with reference to the Written document by Hubbard (Technique 88) this is about the tactics of others. It only goes to show that some people still have flat earth syndrome.
My response to Charlie was about how scientological thinking is in opposition to critical thinking. This is relevant in any thread about scientology, and was not intended to address any particulars in Charlie's post or anyone else's. You don't get to write the rules on how others communicate to each other or what they talk about, in spite of what your cult teaches you.

But thank you for yet again proving the point, flat earther! :)
 
Yes, i did notice the word 'chronic' the first time. I also read where there were multiple possible pathologies for the condition, of which combat was only one. So this doesn't really 'narrow down' that it was a combat-related condition.

There are also explosions and gun flashes that occur outside of combat. Training exercises and accidents do happen. There are plenty of explanations which do not require combat exposure.

From the records, the injury took place while Hubbard was in the South Pacific.[131] In other words, something must have "blinded" Hubbard while in the region.
Yes, something. Two of my shipmates were nearly permanently blinded by a prank involving black powder at a Civil War reenactment while i was in.
A couple more were nearly killed because they were topside to view the firing of a gun and too close. The safety officer caught them only after the shoot was delayed for something else.
Someone else pointed binoculars directly at the sun when he was trying to locate a plane we heard...

There are lots of things that could happen to one's eyesight, none of which demand combat.

When you say you have 'new evidence' you seem to be leaning towards the creationist version of the word.

How this moves us closer to actual evidence of combat is a mystery...

There certainly is new evidence that would throw doubt on the original stories. Like I said there are a lot of questions but this puts him closer to the scene and sure there are a whole lot of reasons why people get blinded, where you did give some explanations. The type of conjunctivitis he had was associated with this type of incident, which earlier researchers did not notice. Should I say "researchers"

It also validates the muddled evidence of one Liet Conl who served with Hubbard. He got his dates wrong(from 40 years earlier) but the locations he mentioned seem validated.

Anyway it sounds like you've come across some interesting people.
 
whichphilosophy, is pure theta an element of Scientology?
 
That's pretty weak. Do you realize that overall Hubbard's stories still do not match the evidence?

How about all the "millions" of children that the cult supposedly helped learn to read in South Africa?

How about the claims of OT abilities?

How about the Blackfoot "blood brother" lie?

And on and on and on...

It's as if you have no problem with a mountain of lies right in front of you, but you choose to quibble over some minor detail that doesn't change the overall picture of lying one bit.

Break away, WP. You don't need an organization to be free. You don't need to follow policy or agree with Hubbard to be free. You don't need anyone to handle you or oversee your progress or tell you what is true or threaten you with ethics actions to be free. :)

The fact that you ar branching off that issue indicates you see there is something in the evidence presented
:wave2:



Interesting. The topic at hand is a movie about Scientology and how many lawyers they had to hire, and next thing you know we're quibbling over the details of Hubbard's alleged Naval heroism.

A clever derail. Do they teach that in the classes you paid for?
 
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