Is it now forbidden to be wrong?

[Gun Nut]

There is a difference between being wrong and being deceptive. i.e. lying.

Ok. So what? It's also ok to lie.

Facebook should be equated with sitting in a bar talking shit. It's not the font of truth.

So what? OK... I will rob your house... if I get caught I will say it is my house... you can try to prove me wrong...and if you succeed.. then so what... I was just wrong is all. No crime for just being wrong about that being my house as I remove all of my items from it... oh, I guess I mean your items... cut me a break!

 

[Elixir]

There is a difference between being wrong and being deceptive. i.e. lying.

Ok. So what? It's also ok to lie.

Facebook should be equated with sitting in a bar talking shit. It's not the font of truth.

So what? OK... I will rob inhabit your house... if I get caught am challenged I will say it is my house... you can try to prove me wrong...and if you succeed.. then so what... I was just wrong is all. No crime for just being wrong about that being my house as I remove all of my items from it... oh, I guess I mean your items... cut me a break!

FIFY, welcome to neolibertarianism.
It's all ME all the time, 24/7/365. My only responsibility is to do what I want.
If I lie and you don't like it, you need to work on your feelings!

 

[DrZoidberg]

There is a difference between being wrong and being deceptive. i.e. lying.

Ok. So what? It's also ok to lie.

Facebook should be equated with sitting in a bar talking shit. It's not the font of truth.

So what? OK... I will rob inhabit your house... if I get caught am challenged I will say it is my house... you can try to prove me wrong...and if you succeed.. then so what... I was just wrong is all. No crime for just being wrong about that being my house as I remove all of my items from it... oh, I guess I mean your items... cut me a break!

FIFY, welcome to neolibertarianism.
It's all ME all the time, 24/7/365. My only responsibility is to do what I want.
If I lie and you don't like it, you need to work on your feelings!

No, you don't need to work on anything. You're allowed to be as offended as you like.

 

[Politesse]

Very little offends me.

That is one of the most preposterous things you've ever written. Nearly half your output on this forum has been to complain to others about how "the Wokes" - a largely imaginary conspiracy of all the people who say or believe things you don't like- have done to offend you lately. Including this thread.

I'm one of the evil Wokes, of course, in your estimation. Hell, TomC thinks I'm the actual devil. Yet, I ask, how many threads have I started just to complain about people who upset me?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think what he's saying is that woke is far more about virtue signaling than actually doing anything. It's like my objection to the various climate agreements--virtue signaling without doing much of anything but trying to shut up the people pointing out the problem.

Not to mention that it rather actively condones racism against the standards.

That is entirely opposite to the actual definition of "woke"; a woke person, by definition, is a person who has become conscious of their situation in a way that immediately demands change, and both personal and interpersonal evolution. When a fluent AAVE speaker says to "get woke", they do not mean "sit on your ass".

The problem is their actions are more about virtue signaling than actually doing something useful.

 

[Politesse]

I think what he's saying is that woke is far more about virtue signaling than actually doing anything. It's like my objection to the various climate agreements--virtue signaling without doing much of anything but trying to shut up the people pointing out the problem.

Not to mention that it rather actively condones racism against the standards.

That is entirely opposite to the actual definition of "woke"; a woke person, by definition, is a person who has become conscious of their situation in a way that immediately demands change, and both personal and interpersonal evolution. When a fluent AAVE speaker says to "get woke", they do not mean "sit on your ass".

The problem is their actions are more about virtue signaling than actually doing something useful.

Who? Not anyone who makes the news for doing something, which is generally who the conservatives are outraged about on any given day.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Very little offends me.

That is one of the most preposterous things you've ever written. Nearly half your output on this forum has been to complain to others about how "the Wokes" - a largely imaginary conspiracy of all the people who say or believe things you don't like- have done to offend you lately. Including this thread.

Lol. No. But it is symptomatic of wokism, and how the word "offended" is starting to lose all meaning. There's nothing in my posts that have anything to do with me being offended. What I object to in wokism is it's Maoistic tendencies. How it's bullying and abuse, just like within the Jehova's Witnesses you have to join in on the theatre or you will be cast out. I'm for gun regulation because it's saves lives. Not because guns offend me.

I'm one of the evil Wokes, of course, in your estimation. Hell, TomC thinks I'm the actual devil. Yet, I ask, how many threads have I started just to complain about people who upset me?

I don't think you are evil. But I think you are doing evil. To paraphrase Steven Weinberg

“With or without woke, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes woke.”

The social mechanic of Maoism has popped up many times throughout history and whenever it become mainstream it's ended in disaster. It's seductive. Policing what people say is super easy. It's super easy to be on the front line being a crusader against (perceived) evil. But the moment people stop speaking freely they're not communicating at all. Which robs us of tools to solve any social problem, and makes the society extremely easy to control by whoever sits on the power. It was in Calvinist Geneva, Revolutionary France, Soviet Union, Islamic Iran, Taliban Afghanistan, ISIS etc. It seems to be distressingly easy for any society to get sucked into this ideological maelstrom.

I don't want to be alarmist. I don't think woke will take over. I think it's power is already waning. I think we've had free speech and liberal democracy for too long in the west. But a huge problem with Maoist movements is that it creates a reaction, a social resistance movement. Let's call them conservatives. They can be exceedingly dangerous. I think Trump is a good example. Or Boris Johnson. They're just as dumb and simplistic as the wokes, and are also on a crusade. But a worse crusade. These two polar opposites feed each other. The more one side grows, the more the other side grows.

That's my problem with woke. It's not about me being offended.

 

[Politesse]

Very little offends me.

That is one of the most preposterous things you've ever written. Nearly half your output on this forum has been to complain to others about how "the Wokes" - a largely imaginary conspiracy of all the people who say or believe things you don't like- have done to offend you lately. Including this thread.

Lol. No. But it is symptomatic of wokism, and how the word "offended" is starting to lose all meaning. There's nothing in my posts that have anything to do with me being offended. What I object to in wokism is it's Maoistic tendencies. How it's bullying and abuse, just like within the Jehova's Witnesses you have to join in on the theatre or you will be cast out. I'm for gun regulation because it's saves lives. Not because guns offend me.

I'm one of the evil Wokes, of course, in your estimation. Hell, TomC thinks I'm the actual devil. Yet, I ask, how many threads have I started just to complain about people who upset me?

I don't think you are evil. But I think you are doing evil. To paraphrase Steven Weinberg

“With or without woke, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes woke.”

The social mechanic of Maoism has popped up many times throughout history and whenever it become mainstream it's ended in disaster. It's seductive. Policing what people say is super easy. It's super easy to be on the front line being a crusader against (perceived) evil. But the moment people stop speaking freely they're not communicating at all. Which robs us of tools to solve any social problem, and makes the society extremely easy to control by whoever sits on the power. It was in Calvinist Geneva, Revolutionary France, Soviet Union, Islamic Iran, Taliban Afghanistan, ISIS etc. It seems to be distressingly easy for any society to get sucked into this ideological maelstrom.

I don't want to be alarmist. I don't think woke will take over. I think it's power is already waning. I think we've had free speech and liberal democracy for too long in the west. But a huge problem with Maoist movements is that it creates a reaction, a social resistance movement. Let's call them conservatives. They can be exceedingly dangerous. I think Trump is a good example. Or Boris Johnson. They're just as dumb and simplistic as the wokes, and are also on a crusade. But a worse crusade. These two polar opposites feed each other. The more one side grows, the more the other side grows.

That's my problem with woke. It's not about me being offended.

Ah, I see. So if I fear that your perspectives will lead us into fascism, that means I'm not "being offended" either?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Very little offends me.

That is one of the most preposterous things you've ever written. Nearly half your output on this forum has been to complain to others about how "the Wokes" - a largely imaginary conspiracy of all the people who say or believe things you don't like- have done to offend you lately. Including this thread.

Lol. No. But it is symptomatic of wokism, and how the word "offended" is starting to lose all meaning. There's nothing in my posts that have anything to do with me being offended. What I object to in wokism is it's Maoistic tendencies. How it's bullying and abuse, just like within the Jehova's Witnesses you have to join in on the theatre or you will be cast out. I'm for gun regulation because it's saves lives. Not because guns offend me.

I'm one of the evil Wokes, of course, in your estimation. Hell, TomC thinks I'm the actual devil. Yet, I ask, how many threads have I started just to complain about people who upset me?

I don't think you are evil. But I think you are doing evil. To paraphrase Steven Weinberg

“With or without woke, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes woke.”

The social mechanic of Maoism has popped up many times throughout history and whenever it become mainstream it's ended in disaster. It's seductive. Policing what people say is super easy. It's super easy to be on the front line being a crusader against (perceived) evil. But the moment people stop speaking freely they're not communicating at all. Which robs us of tools to solve any social problem, and makes the society extremely easy to control by whoever sits on the power. It was in Calvinist Geneva, Revolutionary France, Soviet Union, Islamic Iran, Taliban Afghanistan, ISIS etc. It seems to be distressingly easy for any society to get sucked into this ideological maelstrom.

I don't want to be alarmist. I don't think woke will take over. I think it's power is already waning. I think we've had free speech and liberal democracy for too long in the west. But a huge problem with Maoist movements is that it creates a reaction, a social resistance movement. Let's call them conservatives. They can be exceedingly dangerous. I think Trump is a good example. Or Boris Johnson. They're just as dumb and simplistic as the wokes, and are also on a crusade. But a worse crusade. These two polar opposites feed each other. The more one side grows, the more the other side grows.

That's my problem with woke. It's not about me being offended.

Ah, I see. So if I fear that your perspectives will lead us into fascism, that means I'm not "being offended" either?

I don't think you know what the word "offended" means. It's not applicable in this context.

 

[Politesse]

Very little offends me.

That is one of the most preposterous things you've ever written. Nearly half your output on this forum has been to complain to others about how "the Wokes" - a largely imaginary conspiracy of all the people who say or believe things you don't like- have done to offend you lately. Including this thread.

Lol. No. But it is symptomatic of wokism, and how the word "offended" is starting to lose all meaning. There's nothing in my posts that have anything to do with me being offended. What I object to in wokism is it's Maoistic tendencies. How it's bullying and abuse, just like within the Jehova's Witnesses you have to join in on the theatre or you will be cast out. I'm for gun regulation because it's saves lives. Not because guns offend me.

I'm one of the evil Wokes, of course, in your estimation. Hell, TomC thinks I'm the actual devil. Yet, I ask, how many threads have I started just to complain about people who upset me?

I don't think you are evil. But I think you are doing evil. To paraphrase Steven Weinberg

“With or without woke, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes woke.”

The social mechanic of Maoism has popped up many times throughout history and whenever it become mainstream it's ended in disaster. It's seductive. Policing what people say is super easy. It's super easy to be on the front line being a crusader against (perceived) evil. But the moment people stop speaking freely they're not communicating at all. Which robs us of tools to solve any social problem, and makes the society extremely easy to control by whoever sits on the power. It was in Calvinist Geneva, Revolutionary France, Soviet Union, Islamic Iran, Taliban Afghanistan, ISIS etc. It seems to be distressingly easy for any society to get sucked into this ideological maelstrom.

I don't want to be alarmist. I don't think woke will take over. I think it's power is already waning. I think we've had free speech and liberal democracy for too long in the west. But a huge problem with Maoist movements is that it creates a reaction, a social resistance movement. Let's call them conservatives. They can be exceedingly dangerous. I think Trump is a good example. Or Boris Johnson. They're just as dumb and simplistic as the wokes, and are also on a crusade. But a worse crusade. These two polar opposites feed each other. The more one side grows, the more the other side grows.

That's my problem with woke. It's not about me being offended.

Ah, I see. So if I fear that your perspectives will lead us into fascism, that means I'm not "being offended" either?

I don't think you know what the word "offended" means. It's not applicable in this context.

I have never known what you people mean by "offended". It seems to be thrown around as a sort of insult, like the other person is simply too emotional as opposed to having a serious objection.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Very little offends me.

That is one of the most preposterous things you've ever written. Nearly half your output on this forum has been to complain to others about how "the Wokes" - a largely imaginary conspiracy of all the people who say or believe things you don't like- have done to offend you lately. Including this thread.

Lol. No. But it is symptomatic of wokism, and how the word "offended" is starting to lose all meaning. There's nothing in my posts that have anything to do with me being offended. What I object to in wokism is it's Maoistic tendencies. How it's bullying and abuse, just like within the Jehova's Witnesses you have to join in on the theatre or you will be cast out. I'm for gun regulation because it's saves lives. Not because guns offend me.

I'm one of the evil Wokes, of course, in your estimation. Hell, TomC thinks I'm the actual devil. Yet, I ask, how many threads have I started just to complain about people who upset me?

I don't think you are evil. But I think you are doing evil. To paraphrase Steven Weinberg

“With or without woke, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes woke.”

The social mechanic of Maoism has popped up many times throughout history and whenever it become mainstream it's ended in disaster. It's seductive. Policing what people say is super easy. It's super easy to be on the front line being a crusader against (perceived) evil. But the moment people stop speaking freely they're not communicating at all. Which robs us of tools to solve any social problem, and makes the society extremely easy to control by whoever sits on the power. It was in Calvinist Geneva, Revolutionary France, Soviet Union, Islamic Iran, Taliban Afghanistan, ISIS etc. It seems to be distressingly easy for any society to get sucked into this ideological maelstrom.

I don't want to be alarmist. I don't think woke will take over. I think it's power is already waning. I think we've had free speech and liberal democracy for too long in the west. But a huge problem with Maoist movements is that it creates a reaction, a social resistance movement. Let's call them conservatives. They can be exceedingly dangerous. I think Trump is a good example. Or Boris Johnson. They're just as dumb and simplistic as the wokes, and are also on a crusade. But a worse crusade. These two polar opposites feed each other. The more one side grows, the more the other side grows.

That's my problem with woke. It's not about me being offended.

Ah, I see. So if I fear that your perspectives will lead us into fascism, that means I'm not "being offended" either?

I don't think you know what the word "offended" means. It's not applicable in this context.

I have never known what you people mean by "offended". It seems to be thrown around as a sort of insult, like the other person is simply too emotional as opposed to having a serious objection.

What I mean is that the wokes are trying to create a world where nobody ever is offended. Being offended isn't seen as something the offended person needs to find a way to deal with themselves. It's seen as something the rest of society has a responsibility to stop. The problem with it is that all the power is given to the offended party. People like power and are incentivized to become offended and thereby get power. It creates an inflation of offence and victimhood.

Not to mention that it's dumb. Being offended is a feeling. Feelings aren't rational. There's no way to rationally design a society to prevent something that doesn't comply to logic. People get triggered and have emotional meltdowns for all manner of strange reasons beyond anybody's control.

Wokes are also offended by proxy. A white person telling another white person how horribly racist something said is. The first white person isn't offended. But thinks that their imaginary black friend should be, so goes apeshit on the forums denouncing them. Now this behaviour is bizarre, because it requires nobody to actually be offended. People are adjusting their behaviour to protect nobody's feelings. It's a pointless behaviour. It's also sad. Because it's obviously just white people feeling left out of being a victim so they do what they do best, steal the spotlight from black people, and are doing what racists always have been doing, being mean to black people.

I never said wokes are offended by people being conservatives. They might be. But that's neither here nor there. I also don't think the problem is that the odd conservative might be offended by liberals being liberals.

 

[Patooka]

No joke; I am in complete awe of your imagination, DrZoidberg. You'll give me some warning before these wokists starting rounding us up right?

 

[DrZoidberg]

No joke; I am in complete awe of your imagination, DrZoidberg. You'll give me some warning before these wokists starting rounding us up right?

My examples are only the most extreme ones. I'm in no way afraid that we will end up like in Maoist China. That's not what I am afraid of. It's a question of degree. The main problem with woke is that any degree is bad. There's no dosage of woke that is beneficial to society. It's pure poison at any amounts. The less woke the better IMHO.

My examples are just that. They're examples of how the psychological mechanic works on a society. They're also examples of what happens when this type of thinking is allowed to take control of a government. But I don't think we're at any risk of that happening. That's not what I'm saying or why I mentioned them. But they are illustrative.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think what he's saying is that woke is far more about virtue signaling than actually doing anything. It's like my objection to the various climate agreements--virtue signaling without doing much of anything but trying to shut up the people pointing out the problem.

Not to mention that it rather actively condones racism against the standards.

That is entirely opposite to the actual definition of "woke"; a woke person, by definition, is a person who has become conscious of their situation in a way that immediately demands change, and both personal and interpersonal evolution. When a fluent AAVE speaker says to "get woke", they do not mean "sit on your ass".

The problem is their actions are more about virtue signaling than actually doing something useful.

No, he is saying woke is leading down the road to 20th century European fascism.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think what he's saying is that woke is far more about virtue signaling than actually doing anything. It's like my objection to the various climate agreements--virtue signaling without doing much of anything but trying to shut up the people pointing out the problem.

Not to mention that it rather actively condones racism against the standards.

That is entirely opposite to the actual definition of "woke"; a woke person, by definition, is a person who has become conscious of their situation in a way that immediately demands change, and both personal and interpersonal evolution. When a fluent AAVE speaker says to "get woke", they do not mean "sit on your ass".

The problem is their actions are more about virtue signaling than actually doing something useful.

No, he is saying woke is leading down the road to 20th century European fascism.

Well... not actual fascism. But more fascistic. Stuff like Trump and Boris Johnsson. I think those movements are partly a reaction against woke.

If you become more intolerant your ideological opponent will necessarily have to become more intolerant to survive. If you want your ideological opponent to listen to you and change, you have to be open to listening to them and have a mindset where you to can be changed.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

Articles like this worry me:

Climate change: Facebook fails to flag denial, study finds

Researchers tracked thousands of posts denying climate change - and only 8% were marked as misinformation.

www.bbc.com

In a free society people have to be allowed to disagree and have arguments about stuff. Like we do on this forum. It's got to be allowed to be a climate change denier. I'm not. But I don't want my mere layman's opinion to be etched into stone (ie made law). That would be a terrible development IMHO.

Facebook has no responsibility for anything. They're under no obligation to protect us from ourselves. In fact, if we forbid dumb people from speaking, we all become dumber. The brain is like any muscle. It needs exercising. If we ban bullshit, we will lower resilience to the inevitable bullshit that does manage to slip through the cracks.

I don't like the way the article is formulated. I fear we're sliding into a world of well-meaning totalitarian censorship. A world without lies is soma in Brave New World.

It is Facebook's freedom of speech to flag such content as being dubious.

 

[Politesse]

The OG fascists absolutely sold themselves as being the last desperate stand against multiculturalism, race mixture, socialism, and religious tolerance. The term "woke" had not yet come into being, but I'm sure they would argue they were "forced" to do what they did by the progressives in their own society, and they absolutely interpreted any and all criticism as persecution. Hence Mein Kampf as opposed to Mein Seig. If people pressing for tolerance and equality make you panic, you will always feel like you are under siege, and you will always have someone to blame for the "necessity" of your own actions in response.

But the truth is, no one forces you to be intolerant.

 

[Patooka]

Well... not actual fascism. But more fascistic. Stuff like Trump and Boris Johnsson. I think those movements are partly a reaction against woke.

You have an extremely fucked up view on how causality works if you think spoiled geriatrics who have spent a lifetime with entitlement because of their families are a product of the rise wokeness since 2014.

If you become more intolerant your ideological opponent will necessarily have to become more intolerant to survive. If you want your ideological opponent to listen to you and change, you have to be open to listening to them and have a mindset where you to can be changed.

This is an incredibly ignorant viewpoint. The woke trying to compromise with cunts is exactly the reason things are how they are today. I honestly can't imagine how better off the United States would be today if the Obama used their obvious majority and told the Tea Party to shut the fuck up instead of "trying to reach across the aisle". I wish Kevin Rudd would have done something similar the instant Australian conservatives magically valued "fiscal responsibility" again the second those fuckheads lost power. It's also adorable that you still believe that right wingers/conservatism (pick a label) is still somewhat ideological and not completely tribal.

 

[ZiprHead]

Dr. Z, what do you think about these wokesters?

Conservative Moms Group Offers $500 Reward to Snitch on Teachers Who Talk About Systemic Racism

 

[DrZoidberg]

Well... not actual fascism. But more fascistic. Stuff like Trump and Boris Johnsson. I think those movements are partly a reaction against woke.

You have an extremely fucked up view on how causality works if you think spoiled geriatrics who have spent a lifetime with entitlement because of their families are a product of the rise wokeness since 2014.

If you become more intolerant your ideological opponent will necessarily have to become more intolerant to survive. If you want your ideological opponent to listen to you and change, you have to be open to listening to them and have a mindset where you to can be changed.

This is an incredibly ignorant viewpoint. The woke trying to compromise with cunts is exactly the reason things are how they are today. I honestly can't imagine how better off the United States would be today if the Obama used their obvious majority and told the Tea Party to shut the fuck up instead of "trying to reach across the aisle". I wish Kevin Rudd would have done something similar the instant Australian conservatives magically valued "fiscal responsibility" again the second those fuckheads lost power. It's also adorable that you still believe that right wingers/conservatism (pick a label) is still somewhat ideological and not completely tribal.

Now you are pretending like I said that woke is the ONLY reason for Trump and Brexit. I did not. Try again.