How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Fuck Putin, and fuck his Soviet ambitions.

[insult removed]

 

[Harry Bosch]

If Putin attacks in the next few weeks, the west was right. Correct?

The West will be right no matter what. The West is always right, cause it's West!

Well, the sad thing about is that there really doesn't need to be any sides here. The fact is that Nato hadn't been arming Ukraine or expanding into Ukraine. Ukraine has been begging them to do this for years. They've been screaming for help and defensive weapons. We've been declining in order to not offend Mother Russia. Probably a mistake by the west. Well, the weapons are going to pour in now! It's Russia that is pushing the former eastern bloc countries towards the west, not Nato. If Mother Russia would just stop bullying other countries, there would be no conflict.

You do realize that 2014 coup was organized by the West?
So there was quite a bit of pushing and luring.

I personally don't care about Ukraine in NATO. Just pay $250bil they owe to Russia and you can have it (Except Crimea of course).
You can have Belarus as well, after you pay back their accumulated debt.
It's about money for me at this point. Actually, it's always been about money for me.
In fact it's about money for everybody. Ukraine does not want to pay back. West wants Russia to pay Ukrainian regime for nothing because they themselves are not willing to pay. It's allways about money.

The sad thing about it is that this conflict is not due to Nato expansion or the money that you claim that Ukraine owes to Russia. I'll bet that you don't even know the real cause of this conflict. This conflict is about water. Crimea is running out of water. Ukraine cut it off when Russia took it. And rather than do what most countries do (negotiate); Russia just wants to take the water (and everything else).

 

[barbos]

The sad thing about it is that this conflict is not due to Nato expansion or the money that you claim that Ukraine owes to Russia. I'll bet that you don't even know the real cause of this conflict. This conflict is about water. Crimea is running out of water. Ukraine cut it off when Russia took it. And rather than do what most countries do (negotiate); Russia just wants to take the water (and everything else).

You would have lost your bet.
Yes, Ukrainian junta/government immediately cut water supply to people they call Ukrainian citizens. Keyword here is "immediately". And your media still claim that everybody in Crimea feels occupied by Russia and dreams about liberation by Ukrainian Army

And no, conflict is not about water. Russia did not even bother to sue Ukraine in some International Court. Conflict is about West trying to shutdown Russia in its present form. Russia is too big for West's liking. West is trying to balkanize Russia. Ukraine is just a tool or intermediate goal. Plus money, people like money they get from Millitary Industrial Complex.

 

[Elixir]

Fuck Putin, and fuck his Soviet ambitions.

[removed]

Translation: “yay Putin! Yay Soviet glory days! Attack! It’s all the West’s fault!”

 

[barbos]

Fuck Putin, and fuck his Soviet ambitions.

[removed]

Translation: “yay Putin! Yay Soviet glory days! Attack! It’s all the West’s fault!”

Your propaganda is lying to you.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The sad thing about it is that this conflict is not due to Nato expansion or the money that you claim that Ukraine owes to Russia. I'll bet that you don't even know the real cause of this conflict. This conflict is about water. Crimea is running out of water. Ukraine cut it off when Russia took it. And rather than do what most countries do (negotiate); Russia just wants to take the water (and everything else).

You would have lost your bet.
Yes, Ukrainian junta/government immediately cut water supply to people they call Ukrainian citizens. Keyword here is "immediately". And your media still claim that everybody in Crimea feels occupied by Russia and dreams about liberation by Ukrainian Army

And no, conflict is not about water. Russia did not even bother to sue Ukraine in some International Court. Conflict is about West trying to shutdown Russia in its present form. Russia is too big for West's liking. West is trying to balkanize Russia. Ukraine is just a tool or intermediate goal. Plus money, people like money they get from Millitary Industrial Complex.

I'm starting to question how much you know about this conflict. Yes, it's mostly about water. Russia wants Ukraine water for Crimea. And rather than negotiate for it (because it's Ukraine's water, not Putins); Russia just wants to take it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The sad thing about it is that this conflict is not due to Nato expansion or the money that you claim that Ukraine owes to Russia. I'll bet that you don't even know the real cause of this conflict. This conflict is about water. Crimea is running out of water. Ukraine cut it off when Russia took it. And rather than do what most countries do (negotiate); Russia just wants to take the water (and everything else).

You would have lost your bet.
Yes, Ukrainian junta/government immediately cut water supply to people they call Ukrainian citizens. Keyword here is "immediately". And your media still claim that everybody in Crimea feels occupied by Russia and dreams about liberation by Ukrainian Army

And no, conflict is not about water. Russia did not even bother to sue Ukraine in some International Court. Conflict is about West trying to shutdown Russia in its present form. Russia is too big for West's liking.

I'd say that was true back in the late 19th / early 20th centuries. These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player (except WWII... and you were given a seat at the most important table of the UN as a result of that playing as part of a team).

Russia's pride is also counterproductive, like with the Kursk incident. Granted, international aid would likely not have been capable of saving lives, but Russia has this chip on its shoulder that it feels it has to project much bigger of a profile than it really is capable of actually being.

But ultimately, it is inertia. Neither side trusts each other. Both for pre-Great War historical logistics and the whole Stalin thing. Russia likes to project power and NATO doesn't want Russia to project power. And the second satellite states were given the ability, they withdrew from USSR as quickly as they could.

West is trying to balkanize Russia. Ukraine is just a tool or intermediate goal. Plus money, people like money they get from Millitary Industrial Complex.

Yes, our military industry is a major component to "aid" foreign nations and it can be a bit counterproductive.

 

[barbos]

The sad thing about it is that this conflict is not due to Nato expansion or the money that you claim that Ukraine owes to Russia. I'll bet that you don't even know the real cause of this conflict. This conflict is about water. Crimea is running out of water. Ukraine cut it off when Russia took it. And rather than do what most countries do (negotiate); Russia just wants to take the water (and everything else).

You would have lost your bet.
Yes, Ukrainian junta/government immediately cut water supply to people they call Ukrainian citizens. Keyword here is "immediately". And your media still claim that everybody in Crimea feels occupied by Russia and dreams about liberation by Ukrainian Army

And no, conflict is not about water. Russia did not even bother to sue Ukraine in some International Court. Conflict is about West trying to shutdown Russia in its present form. Russia is too big for West's liking. West is trying to balkanize Russia. Ukraine is just a tool or intermediate goal. Plus money, people like money they get from Millitary Industrial Complex.

I'm starting to question how much you know about this conflict. Yes, it's mostly about water. Russia wants Ukraine water for Crimea. And rather than negotiate for it (because it's Ukraine's water, not Putins); Russia just wants to take it.

Wow, just wow. You really think that...
You must be very proud of yourself. Such an expert, aren't you?

 

[barbos]

I'd say that was true back in the late 19th / early 20th centuries.

Dude, it was true in the end of the 20th century when GB and France asked Gorbi not to leave East Germany. They were afraid of their own NATO member being too big.
Of course it's about shutting down Russia, that's why you supported islamic terrotists in Chechnya, that's why you support any asshole who trash Russia.

 

[barbos]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

 

[laughing dog]

I am sure that no one in Ukraine recalls how well that country faired under the generous rule of Joseph Stalin whose policies induced famine and over an estimated 3 million Ukranian deaths. I am also sure that no one will recall that Russia was first an ally of Hitler.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

Dude, I've already addressed that "The West" is not clean, and the reasons for such. But Russia is also far from a perfect partner. Russia and The West are guilty of playing gods with third world nations, for their own petty gains. The West, more so than Russia, who have lacked money and capability of Colonial expansion.

But this doesn't mean Russia is free of culpability or that their policies with Ukraine have to be in the right. That Ukraine is a muddled mess. That Russia wants a neutral Ukraine because they don't want NATO so close to their borders, so they've repeatedly meddled with Ukrainian politics, to ensure Ukraine doesn't get cozy with The West, because that ruins Russia's influence buffer.

 

[Toni]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

I'll admit that I'm not much of a history buff but could you please explain how we started both WWI and WWII?

 

[barbos]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

I'll admit that I'm not much of a history buff but could you please explain how we started both WWI and WWII?

Read history, you might learn something from it.

 

[barbos]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

Dude, I've already addressed that "The West" is not clean, and the reasons for such. But Russia is also far from a perfect partner. Russia and The West are guilty of playing gods with third world nations, for their own petty gains. The West, more so than Russia, who have lacked money and capability of Colonial expansion.

But this doesn't mean Russia is free of culpability or that their policies with Ukraine have to be in the right. That Ukraine is a muddled mess. That Russia wants a neutral Ukraine because they don't want NATO so close to their borders, so they've repeatedly meddled with Ukrainian politics, to ensure Ukraine doesn't get cozy with The West, because that ruins Russia's influence buffer.

All Russia asked is for Ukraine to be neutral and Russia even paid $250bil for that.
Then West supports fascist revolt and all of a sudden demands Russia to get the fuck off.

Whether you like it or not, but when it comes to foreign relations Russia is orders of magnitude cleaner than the West. And yet you try to paint Russia as the worst of the worst in that regard.

 

[Toni]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

I'll admit that I'm not much of a history buff but could you please explain how we started both WWI and WWII?

Read history, you might learn something useful.

History mostly bores me. Usually about a bunch of men starting wars with each other.

The history that I was taught was that the US entered WWII after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The US joined WWI after the Germans kept attacking submarines and was trying to get Mexico to join forces with Germany.

 

[laughing dog]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

I'll admit that I'm not much of a history buff but could you please explain how we started both WWI and WWII?

Read history, you might learn something useful.

History mostly bores me. Usually about a bunch of men starting wars with each other.

The history that I was taught was that the US entered WWII after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The US joined WWI after the Germans kept attacking submarines and was trying to get Mexico to join forces with Germany.

WWI started when a Bosnian Serb assassinated the heir to the Austria-Hungary throne which prompted a domino effect via treaties and alliances to start WWI. Russia declared war because it was an ally of Serbia who was threatened by the Germany Austria alliance. Of course, no one forced the Czar Nicholas to enter WWI.

The Treaty of Versailles after WWI required heavy reparations from the losing countries. That caused severe economic hardship and paved the way for the Nazis and Hitler to take power. Hitler had numerous reasons for fighting the Allies, but one of the factors enabling him was his treaty with Russia. Without having to worry about an Eastern front, Germany could concentrate its military resources against its Western enemies.

The notion that Russia has responsibility for its choices and actions, and therefore had no role in the extent of damage and destruction in WWI or the start of WWII and its subsequent destruction is either pure ignorance or revisionist delusions.

 

[barbos]

These days, we don't trust Russia because Russia has never been a team player

I actually agree. Russia is not a team player. Not YOUR team player. The team which invaded Iraq, which bombed Yugolsavia, the team which supported ISIS in order to topple Assad. The team which does not care about democracy when it suits them (Arab Spring)
Speaking of which, dumbass Assad does not get it, the only reason he was attacked by the West is ..... Russia and Iran. He should had cut ties with Russia and would have been fine as the rest of arab world.

And don't forget that your team also started WW1 and WW2.
And I don't mean Germany alone. I mean the whole damn team including WW1 "winners". So excuse me if I don't trust west's judgement when it comes to anything other than internal affairs.

I'll admit that I'm not much of a history buff but could you please explain how we started both WWI and WWII?

Read history, you might learn something useful.

History mostly bores me. Usually about a bunch of men starting wars with each other.

The history that I was taught was that the US entered WWII after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The US joined WWI after the Germans kept attacking submarines and was trying to get Mexico to join forces with Germany.

Wow, I am "impressed". The average american I think thinks that US fought Soviets in WW2 and won.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

History mostly bores me. Usually about a bunch of men starting wars with each other.

The history that I was taught was that the US entered WWII after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The US joined WWI after the Germans kept attacking submarines and was trying to get Mexico to join forces with Germany.

Wow, I am "impressed". The average american I think thinks that US fought Soviets in WW2 and won.

That'd be an interesting poll to run. I doubt it'd be that many thought the US fought USSR though. If nothing else, pop culture helps remind us the Nazis were the bad guys.

 

[Elixir]

Wow, I am "impressed". The average american I think thinks that US fought Soviets in WW2 and won.

More projection. The average Russian thinks Soviets defeated the Allies and the Axis in WWII.
“Your propaganda is lying to you!”