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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Nothing you've said changes the fact that Ukraine is an independant nation now and Russia has absolutely no right to annex one inch of the nation.
Serbia is independent nation too. Did not help them.
So is Cuba.
Technically, because Cuba was its own nation, we didn't send planes or troops in to support the failed Cuban invasion of the Bay of Pigs.
And Ukraine is currently not an independent country. It's totally dependent on US and EU.
And before that they totally depended on ..... Russia. Technically they still depend on Russia (because of gas transit payments)
That is just crapping on the dictionary there. If you aren't going to post in good faith, why even bother. You knew exactly what Ziprhead meant, but you decided for the cheap points anyway. Ukraine is a country with sovereign borders that Russia has violated twice, and you've condoned twice because Crimean War and propaganda.
 
OK, finished lecture. Looks genuinely pissed off again at NATO expansion and war in Eastern Ukraine.

Comment section Interestingly is almost unanimously negative. Main complain that most of the criticism of crap inside Ukraine applies to Russia as well. Which is fair.
 
barbos said:
Historically Ukraine is part of Russia. The name of the country even suggests that.

As has been explained, it would be more accurate to say that Russia was part of Ukraine.
Kyiv has been a thing for much longer than Muscovy.
All that bullshit about what is/was part of what is irrelevant in any case. What matters is what is happening right now.
Right now we have Russia invading yet another sovereign nation that was once, briefly, under the soviet hammer.
Russia's unremitting aggression is not excused by any paranoid or politically convenient lie about being under attack by NATO, Ukrainians or anything else. Putin is doing this because he can, period.
In plain speech, Russia is a militant dictatorship executing a land grab against a democratic nation. FOX news is totally perplexed about WHY any American wouldn't want to side with the dictator/aggressor rather than with the democracy that is under attack. That whole corrupt organization has become a Russian tool, and it will cost Russia dearly when the bill comes due.

At some point the Russian expansion machine may need to be smacked down if they keep following that egomaniacal madman that the Russian people have allowed to take over their country.
 
Technically, because Cuba was its own nation, we didn't send planes or troops in to support the failed Cuban invasion of the Bay of Pigs.
Sure, you organized it in full accordance with international law. Bunch of lawyers checked it very well.

That is just crapping on the dictionary there. If you aren't going to post in good faith, why even bother. You knew exactly what Ziprhead meant, but you decided for the cheap points anyway. Ukraine is a country with sovereign borders that Russia has violated twice, and you've condoned twice because Crimean War and propaganda.
Sure, Bombing of Serbia was in good faith, sure.

You know what good journalist should have done but never did?
Ask any of these retired american generals about what would they have done if they were running Russia in 2014. Nobody asked any american general about that.
Do you know why? because generals are not great liars.
 
Ukraine is currently not an independent country. It's totally dependent on US and EU for defense against Russian aggression.


Fixed it for you barbos. Ukraine can produce all the food and energy it needs, if left alone. That's why Putin wants to capture it and make it his own.
It's not that Pootey is pissed because Ukranians would rather drive a Mercedes or a Ford than a Kamaz POS.
FYI, every country on earth is "dependent" on other countries for something. That doesn't make them part of Russia.
 
I'm going to stick my neck out and predict that occupying Donetsk and Luhansk is as far as Russia goes. And I'm also going to say, so fucking what if he does. They've effectively been independent for 7 years now - along with Crimea. They are indeed heavily Russian areas of Ukraine to begin with. They should have been returned to Russia in the 1990's instead of now and done so peacefully.

The Ukrainians should agree. They don't need or want those Russians in their country. That's been the source of conflict from the beginning - an ethnic tension that won't go away until they break away. I say let 'em go. Any view of the electoral map of Ukraine shows why they don't need or want those areas. They will vote against Ukrainian people's interest and for closer ties with Putin. Without them, Ukraine is free to move with closer ties to Europe and away from Russian influence. I doubt it will ever join NATO though. That's a pipe dream. But I also think Russia should compensate Ukraine for them. Kinda like the US did in the Treaty of Guadalupe. They should buy those areas from Ukraine. And they should pay for it with free gas for some number of years.

I know what people will say: "Peace in our time!" But Putin is not Adolf Hitler and this is not the Sudetenland. The idea of him invading and occupying Ukraine entirely is a fantasy. He'll lose. Maybe he'll crush their army, but he will not crush Ukraine without totally losing virtually all trade with the West and probably significant loss of support at home for such actions. There will be violence on a scale that he cannot imagine, and maybe not even be able to sustain the losses. He's only got a bit more than 100,000 troops for the entire country. It's not enough. Unleashing enough violence to suppress Ukrainian independence could indeed draw in NATO into the conflict. The world may not put up with basically a genocide of the Ukrainian people. Putin also won't be around forever. His days are already numbered likely. Putin just doesn't command the total loyalty of Russian the way Adolf Hitler did for Germans. And he isn't bent on conquering Europe like Adolf was.

It's not perfect, but it is a solution. Going forward beyond this point would be shear madness. I just don't see him as another mad Adolf. And I sure don't see Ukrainians pushing him out of eastern Ukraine and Crimea either.
 
Anyway, my read of the lecture is that Putin is genuinely pissed off and Ukrainian government should be worried. I suspect that Russia is most likely not responsible for recent escalation in Eastern Ukraine. Otherwise Putin should be nominated for Oscar.

Of course it's possible that rebels did False Flag by themselves in secret. But that would be hard to do. I think it's your guys. Whether or not US was aware hard to tell.
The end result favors Ukraine greatly.
 
And Ukraine is currently not an independent country. It's totally dependent on US and EU. And before that they totally depended on ..... Russia. Technically they still depend on Russia (because of gas transit payments)
And Russia is dependant on the US for transportation equipment, machinery and appliances. So we have the right to annex Russia. Makes perfect sense.
 
I'm going to stick my neck out and predict that occupying Donetsk and Luhansk is as far as Russia goes. And I'm also going to say, so fucking what if he does. They've effectively been independent for 7 years now - along with Crimea. They are indeed heavily Russian areas of Ukraine to begin with. They should have been returned to Russia in the 1990's instead of now and done so peacefully.

The Ukrainians should agree. They don't need or want those Russians in their country. That's been the source of conflict from the beginning - an ethnic tension that won't go away until they break away. I say let 'em go. Any view of the electoral map of Ukraine shows why they don't need or want those areas. They will vote against Ukrainian people's interest and for closer ties with Putin. Without them, Ukraine is free to move with closer ties to Europe and away from Russian influence. I doubt it will ever join NATO though. That's a pipe dream. But I also think Russia should compensate Ukraine for them. Kinda like the US did in the Treaty of Guadalupe. They should buy those areas from Ukraine. And they should pay for it with free gas for some number of years.

I know what people will say: "Peace in our time!" But Putin is not Adolf Hitler and this is not the Sudetenland. The idea of him invading and occupying Ukraine entirely is a fantasy. He'll lose. Maybe he'll crush their army, but he will not crush Ukraine without totally losing virtually all trade with the West and probably significant loss of support at home for such actions. There will be violence on a scale that he cannot imagine, and maybe not even be able to sustain the losses. He's only got a bit more than 100,000 troops for the entire country. It's not enough. Unleashing enough violence to suppress Ukrainian independence could indeed draw in NATO into the conflict. The world may not put up with basically a genocide of the Ukrainian people. Putin also won't be around forever. His days are already numbered likely. Putin just doesn't command the total loyalty of Russian the way Adolf Hitler did for Germans. And he isn't bent on conquering Europe like Adolf was.

It's not perfect, but it is a solution. Going forward beyond this point would be shear madness. I just don't see him as another mad Adolf. And I sure don't see Ukrainians pushing him out of eastern Ukraine and Crimea either.
That's basically what I and Mearsheimer&Co suggested.
But no fucking compensation for Ukraine. They have been handsomely compensated already. EU can have Ukraine and make all kinds of economic experiments with it except using it against Russia militarily. Ukraine must be neutral, period.
 
And Ukraine is currently not an independent country. It's totally dependent on US and EU. And before that they totally depended on ..... Russia. Technically they still depend on Russia (because of gas transit payments)
And Russia is dependant on the US for transportation equipment, machinery and appliances. So we have the right to annex Russia. Makes perfect sense.
Russia does not owe US any money. Ukraine does.
 
my read of the lecture is that Putin is genuinely pissed off
Ooh, Putin is "genuinely" pissed off. That makes his actions okay. People get genuinely pissed off at their spouse so that makes it okay to beat the shit out of them. Another barbos point that makes perfect sense.
 
my read of the lecture is that Putin is genuinely pissed off
Ooh, Putin is "genuinely" pissed off. That makes his actions okay. People get genuinely pissed off at their spouse so that makes it okay to beat the shit out of them. Another barbos point that makes perfect sense.
Yes, if Ukraine is responsible for recent escalation then Putin's recent actions are OK.
Next question please!
And why are you pissed off anyway? You've got what you wanted, Nord Stream 2 is dead. Ukraine continues to suck money from Russia for their transit.
 
And Ukraine is currently not an independent country. It's totally dependent on US and EU. And before that they totally depended on ..... Russia. Technically they still depend on Russia (because of gas transit payments)
And Russia is dependant on the US for transportation equipment, machinery and appliances. So we have the right to annex Russia. Makes perfect sense.
Russia does not owe US any money. Ukraine does.
So this is over repayment of a debt. Who beats up others to make them pay their debts? Criminal mobsters, that's who.

And if the debt is repaid, will Russia backout of Ukraine? No, of course not.

Do you really think your arguments are effective, ethical or legal in any way?
 
my read of the lecture is that Putin is genuinely pissed off
Ooh, Putin is "genuinely" pissed off. That makes his actions okay. People get genuinely pissed off at their spouse so that makes it okay to beat the shit out of them. Another barbos point that makes perfect sense.
Yes, if Ukraine is responsible for recent escalation then Putin's recent actions are OK.
Next question please!
If is a big word here. Explain what Ukraine has done to escalate anything at all.
 
From his speech Putin is ranting much as Trump rants with falsehoods.

Putin says it was too generous to give it away, he wants it back, it does not exist.. He also used the word empire referencing the old Russian empire.

He is looking more and more like the traditional nut case dictator. He hides his insanity better than a Qaddafi ot Hussein.

Stalin made a bargain with Hityler in part for getting a piece of Polan and Finland he thought was Russian. We know how that ended. up.

From the news discussions, Putin is just a continuation of the line of Soviet communist leaders with one difference. In the Soviet system the Politburo had the power to remove a leader as in the case of Khrushchev.

In Russia today there are no checks and balances. The legislature rubber stamps Putin. They voted to essentially make him legally dictator for life. It is all done on the whim of Putin.
 
my read of the lecture is that Putin is genuinely pissed off
Ooh, Putin is "genuinely" pissed off. That makes his actions okay. People get genuinely pissed off at their spouse so that makes it okay to beat the shit out of them. Another barbos point that makes perfect sense.
Yes, if Ukraine is responsible for recent escalation then Putin's recent actions are OK.
Next question please!
If is a big word here. Explain what Ukraine has done to escalate anything at all.
Well, bombing of Eastern Ukraine and actually invading (according to russian news) Russia. Bunch of refugees in Russia now. So yeah, escalation.
As I said before, Ukraine gets rid of that land, gets Nord Stream 2 killed, more sanctions for Russia, more money from the West. What's not to like?
 
my read of the lecture is that Putin is genuinely pissed off
Ooh, Putin is "genuinely" pissed off. That makes his actions okay. People get genuinely pissed off at their spouse so that makes it okay to beat the shit out of them. Another barbos point that makes perfect sense.
Yes, if Ukraine is responsible for recent escalation then Putin's recent actions are OK.
Next question please!
If is a big word here. Explain what Ukraine has done to escalate anything at all.

They committed the unforgivable crime of having once been under the Soviet thumb.
That’s all. Plain and simple.
The propaganda that Barbos is lapping up and regurgitating here, is just that.
 
And Ukraine is currently not an independent country. It's totally dependent on US and EU. And before that they totally depended on ..... Russia. Technically they still depend on Russia (because of gas transit payments)
And Russia is dependant on the US for transportation equipment, machinery and appliances. So we have the right to annex Russia. Makes perfect sense.
Russia does not owe US any money. Ukraine does.
So this is over repayment of a debt. Who beats up others to make them pay their debts? Criminal mobsters, that's who.

And if the debt is repaid, will Russia backout of Ukraine? No, of course not.

Do you really think your arguments are effective, ethical or legal in any way?
Yes, my arguments are effective, ethical and not sure how "legal" is relevant here.
 
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