Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

[Gun Nut]

For fucks sake. I see a video of a person smiling and talking to the cops... the cop jumps on the person and cuffs them... WTF.. they were SMILING!!!!! Then you hear the audio and it turns out the persons was saying, "I have a gun and I am going to kill every last mother fucking one of you".... BUT THEY WERE SMILING!!!!!!

Bruh, the video has audio. you can hear all the bystanders as clear as day, I'm certain that if the black kid was yelling something you'd hear it. The video even shows the police not giving him a chance so even if he was yelling when the police came into contact with him it didn't matter. So, what in the world are you on about?

I explicitly asked if the video had audio or not... because I cannot hear any audio.... I asked based on your initial response to my question about what might have been said.... and never got a response on that from anyone in the thread... so here we are talking past each other.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I can see a simple mechanical reason that might explain it:

In separating them there was that convenient bench that he got shoved into. That was face to face, the officer had a chance to recognize submission. The black kid was face down, thus no face to face contact and much less ability for an officer to recognize submission.

The kid was face down because that’s the position he was put in by the police officer..

There was another bench right there just next to the planter. Both boys could have been sat on separate benches, looked in their faces by the officers. That did not happen.

We don’t know that the male officer consciously thought: “Black kid, he must be dangerous. I need to throw him down and cuff him.” But I do think that he reacted to Husain the way he did because of Husain’s skin color, because he read black kid as dangerous. Unconscious bias is still bias—and it is indeed dangerous.

The cops are going to be trying to separate them. Given their position as the cops approach that means the "white" boy goes backwards, the black boy goes forward. You are trying to make this a racial issue when there are obvious non-racial reasons for the cops to act like they did.

What's the non racial reason for two officers kneeling on the back of this black kid not resisting? Can you find video footage from the entire history of America where American police kneeled on the back of a non black person that did not and is not resisting? That's quite a lot of Leeway to show proof this is normal police behavior no matter the race. Go for it. You'll have to sift through thousands of instances of brown people getting fucked up by police before you find it (if you do).

The way they went on the black teen was as if he were attacking an elderly woman.

 

[Gospel]

because I cannot hear any audio...

I'm not being mean when I ask this, it's a serious question. Are you def? Because if you are def It would be wise to avoid injecting audio-related arguments into the discussion.

 

[Rhea]

Maybe the male cop would have thrown a white kid to the ground face first and cuffed him

No.
No.

No maybe, even.
The male cop grabbed the white kid FIRST. and we saw exactly what he “would have” done, because he did it.

He lifted the white kid off the fight and DID NOT cuff him.

We don’t have to make anything up or speculate any maybes.

Male cop grabbed white kid. Did not cuff.
Male cop then grabbed Black kid. And cuffed him.

The two kids were doing the same thing, in the same place, at the same time. Only difference between the two was that white kid was on top and visibly MORE aggressive, by virtue of being on top.

 

[TomC]

because I cannot hear any audio...

I'm not being mean when I ask this, it's a serious question. Are you def? Because if you are def It would be wise to avoid injecting audio-related arguments into the discussion.

I only watched one video. It quite changed my opinion. But it didn't have any discernable audio.

A problem with making judgements based on small video clips is that not everyone has done the same ones.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I asked based on your initial response to my question about what might have been said.... and never got a response on that from anyone in the thread... so here we are talking past each other.

What?

What was the white boy saying to the cops when they arrived?
What was the black boy saying to the cops when they arrived?

Was one of them saying "i'm good... OK.. settling down now"?
Was on of them saying "I'm gonna kill that motherfucker... get your fucking hands off me or I'll fuck you up"?

Would that be a more significant difference between the boys than their race, in terms of how one might react to them?
YA THINK?

Why make up imaginary events when you can look at the video and see that the black kid was just laying there silent?

I didn't make anything up and I asked the same question about both boys. YOU made up "the black boy was just laying there silent" while cleverly excluding the whole part I was asking questions about. You did this by skipping over the entire engagement and going all the way to the end of the sequence of events; ".... [and then later on we see] he was just laying there silent".\

You must be hard of seeing too. Coupled with the arguments you make you've won the trifecta.

 

[Gospel]

A problem with making judgements based on small video clips is that not everyone has done the same ones.

That's only a problem for people who don't do research before opening hangars and letting opinions take flight.

 

[TomC]

A problem with making judgements based on small video clips is that not everyone has done the same ones.

That's only a problem for people who don't do research before opening hangars and letting opinions take flight.

I see that happening a lot.
Didn't this thread start because someone posted a bit of video without knowing what actually happened?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A problem with making judgements based on small video clips is that not everyone has done the same ones.

That's only a problem for people who don't do research before opening hangars and letting opinions take flight.

I see that happening a lot.
Didn't this thread start because someone posted a bit of video without knowing what actually happened?
Tom

You mean someone posted a link and quoted the article, and a link to the video? An article that accurately described what happened? Is that what you mean by "posted a bit of video without knowing what actually happened?"

 

[Gun Nut]

Gospel and Tom can argue over whether there was any discernable audio or not.
I am not deaf, but my computer does not play any audio with the linked video.

That is why I asked.

I have lost interest in this thing for which an insufficient amount of data is available for me to make a judgement... apparently, the color of the boy's respective skin tones is all some people need to know.

I had questions about information we don't have. Sue me.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Gospel and Tom can argue over whether there was any discernable audio or not.
I am not deaf, but my computer does not play any audio with the linked video.

That is why I asked.

I have lost interest in this thing for which an insufficient amount of data is available for me to make a judgement... apparently, the color of the boy's respective skin tones is all some people need to know.

I had questions about information we don't have. Sue me.

Black People: Police treat us differently that white people.
*video show police explicitly treating a black teen different than a presumed but not very white teen*
White Person: Is there audio?

We have video showing two teens effectively being equally responsible for getting into a fight. We see two officers pull the teen on top and place in seat (who then gets up) and then proceeds to cuff the other teen in a much more aggressive manner as if that teen had tackled an elderly person and tried to steal their money. Neither teen needed to be cuffed or detained. They needed to be pulled apart, given a few minutes, and told to shape up.

This appears to be what happens to one teen, but not the other. It is indisputable.

 

[Gospel]

Didn't this thread start because someone posted a bit of video without knowing what actually happened?

And within the same thread, a better video adding to the available evidence was posted. The issue is, folks aren't willing to offer any opinions based on the available evidence but rather toss in hypotheticals and base opinions on those instead. I don't have an issue with hypothetical opinions if they are accompanied by evidence-based ones. Basing arguments purely on hypotheticals is what we call a bitch move in the hood.

 

[Toni]

I can see a simple mechanical reason that might explain it:

In separating them there was that convenient bench that he got shoved into. That was face to face, the officer had a chance to recognize submission. The black kid was face down, thus no face to face contact and much less ability for an officer to recognize submission.

The kid was face down because that’s the position he was put in by the police officer..

There was another bench right there just next to the planter. Both boys could have been sat on separate benches, looked in their faces by the officers. That did not happen.

We don’t know that the male officer consciously thought: “Black kid, he must be dangerous. I need to throw him down and cuff him.” But I do think that he reacted to Husain the way he did because of Husain’s skin color, because he read black kid as dangerous. Unconscious bias is still bias—and it is indeed dangerous.

The cops are going to be trying to separate them. Given their position as the cops approach that means the "white" boy goes backwards, the black boy goes forward. You are trying to make this a racial issue when there are obvious non-racial reasons for the cops to act like they did.

Except to me and a lot of people, it does seem more than just coincidence or practicality had the officer with his knee in the back of a black kid, cuffing him.

 

[Gun Nut]

I can appreciate why many people see a skin color difference, assign it as a cause, and then apply every affect to that cause. It's pretty kneejerk. It's sad one cannot even ask the question, "but did either of them say anything"? without the response being somewhere in the vicinity of "no further investigation or thought is necessary - don't you SEE their skin color ?- that's the reason anything happens to anyone, anywhere, for any reason... exclusively - and asking about things means you are a denier of anyone ever being racially discriminated against anywhere".
OK, OK.. I get it... if you are white, then you never earned anything and only have taken advantage of everyone else in every and any situation... I get where you are coming from already... jeez.

 

[Rhea]

It's sad one cannot even ask the question, "but did either of them say anything"?

I can see why you mifght think that is sad. But, honestly, that’s not what happened here.

It’s been rebutted pages ago, not ignored.

”Did either of them say anything?”
there was not any time for that.

You can look at the time stamp on the video, and you can count the seconds between when the white kid was pulled from the top and when the black kid was slammed to the ground and cuffed.

And you can say the “maybe he said,” sentence in your head, and you can see your clock run out before you are done with one word.


So you can ask the question. Someone did.
And the ANSWER to that question is, “there are no words that can be uttered in that time span that would justify the action.”

Indeed, the answer is, “There is no combination of two words that could fit into that timespan shown on the video.”

So what could the cop possibly have heard?
At most, ONE WORD.

without the response being somewhere in the vicinity of "no further investigation or thought is necessary -

No further investigation is really necessary to try to uncover what the black teen could have said in 0.25 seconds that would have made him more dangerous than the boy who was on top of him.

OK, OK.. I get it...

I hope so.
Check the thread. People did not ignore, they rebutted.
Check the video. See if you can time yourself saying something that would have mattered.

And that…. That is where the cop is wrong. He never gave that teen any chance to “give up.” He gave one teen that chance, but no tthe other. Even thought they were doing the same thing, in the same place at the same time, and one was clearly on the bottom of the fight when the police arrived.

 

[Gospel]

I can appreciate why many people see a skin color difference, assign it as a cause, and then apply every affect to that cause. It's pretty kneejerk. It's sad one cannot even ask the question, "but did either of them say anything"? without the response being somewhere in the vicinity of "no further investigation or thought is necessary - don't you SEE their skin color ?- that's the reason anything happens to anyone, anywhere, for any reason... exclusively - and asking about things means you are a denier of anyone ever being racially discriminated against anywhere".
OK, OK.. I get it... if you are white, then you never earned anything and only have taken advantage of everyone else in every and any situation... I get where you are coming from already... jeez.

You really have a thing for making stuff up.

 

[TomC]

You really have a thing for making stuff up.

With little information to go on there's a ton of that going on in this thread.

So I went looking for something substantial from the police department. The nearest thing I found was a 6 day old article on a New Jersey website pointedly questioning why there hadn't been a response from the PD.
That looks really bad for them, IMNSHO.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I base my opinion on available evidence and witness statements. For example, Joseph claims heard that a group of teens was going to attack another teen at the mall so he went there to stop it. Joseph then says that the teen never showed up. should have ended of the story there. But nope, according to Joseph, he confronts Z'kye's friend, and Z'kye stepped up.

All these folks in this thread questioning who started it are obviously ignoring the information that is out there to make Z'kye the possible culprit "until more information comes out". Then we have two officers kneeling on the back of a nonresisting teen (two fucking officers) and yall still want to make Z'kye at fault for that "until more information comes out".

Edit: removed line crossed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I can appreciate why many people see a skin color difference, assign it as a cause, and then apply every affect to that cause. It's pretty kneejerk.

Not really. Can you provide any explanation for why the officer doesn't detain the other teen, who actually gets up from his seat? The person on the top is typically understood as the aggressor.

 

[ZiprHead]

I can appreciate why many people see a skin color difference, assign it as a cause, and then apply every affect to that cause. It's pretty kneejerk.

Not really. Can you provide any explanation for why the officer doesn't detain the other teen, who actually gets up from his seat? The person on the top is typically understood as the aggressor.

The white kid could have actually run away at that point.