How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

And what you said is exactly why someone will push that button and use the only weapon they have that will “win” the war for them.. a preemptive strike but at what ? There are too many missles from too many directions to stop the destruction of our ecosystem.

The threat to Pootin is internal, not external. Nobody's going to invade Russia and he knows that. The only thing he could possibly accomplish is to nuke Ukraine and if he took that option the current isolation would be nothing compared to what would follow.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ukraine is losing support and there is no way they can stand against the Russian force that wiped out the nazis…

Ukraine isn't facing the force that wiped out the Nazis. What they have now is a force that doesn't want to fight and whose equipment is a shambles.

And note that the Russians never were able to wipe out the Nazis--a lot of the weapons they used against them were from the US.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Domination by some mini military force over the Russian nuclear arsenal. Do not wake up the sleeping Russian bear. Poking him with a stick is annoying him.. for now… but that bear can wipe away that annoying ant with a single swipe of its paw.

You've got that stick backwards. That bear poked a wasp's nest.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't know if Ukraine really needs to join Nato. They are kicking Russia's ass right now!

I admit they are holding their own. How well would they be doing without all the military hardware? Look at how much damage to their country they have sustained. Membership in NATO would have prevented the invasion and all the damage. We all know that and should admit our mistake. We fucked up. Time to learn and move on.

Not joining NATO is exactly what the Pig wants to happen. He'll be back unless he sees the price is too high. You've got to remember this isn't about what Russia wants, they are fine with Ukraine being whatever Ukraine wants to be. This is about the Pig and the piglets.

Do you think this is a war!? Warning people before wiping out their entire neighborhood?
This is a cat playing with a mouse he can eat on a whim.

This is a geriatric cat who discovered the mouse was a capybara. Moscow is raining crap on neighborhoods because it's not capable of doing anything more.

And look at the reliability (lack thereof) of Russian weapons. What happens if he tosses a nuke at Ukraine and it doesn't go boom?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also, I would not be surprised if those videos were created by Moskvafilms.

Yeah, that was my first reaction.

 

[ZiprHead]

Admin hat on:

It is against the TOU to post violent imagery.

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Please stop doing so.

Hat off

 

[marc]

And look at the reliability (lack thereof) of Russian weapons. What happens if he tosses a nuke at Ukraine and it doesn't go boom?

Well someone will have to go in and diffuse the nuke to make sure it won’t go off when something bumps it. And that person will be forever known as having the biggest balls of adamanitum in the world.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

It would be fair to say that the UK, USA, and most of the rest of Europe, plus Au, NZ etc HELPED the Soviet Union defeat the Nazi government.

It would be fair to say that if Germany had not made the mistake of overestimating their ability to prevail over the Russian winter, the outcome would likely have been much different. The Russian people were offered up as cannon fodder, as usual.

Yep you got it .. that’s the real reason that
“War is hell”

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

[removed]

Do you understand that Ukranian people are dying? This isn't a game. Ukranian homes are being bombed. Blowing up hospitals and day care centers. And seriously, you think this is a game? I wish that Russians would go back to getting their rocks off by playing chess.

War has always been a game .. think
“War Games”…
One side wins the game the other loses.
Why?
Power to do what you believe is right.
Who is right? Both are right from their point of view. Both are wrong for killing people to get what they think is right.
The ridiculous religion of love preached by idiots in the name of god pffft
The Ten Commandments saying do not harm others??? Pfft
Instead let’s kill those who don’t agree with our love for them.
Religion is the greatest cause of evil.
And yet all religions preach “love others”
Come on people, we are more intelligent than that. The answer is indeed love others.
But selfishly forcing people to do what we want, is not loving them.
Doing things that make other peoples life more enjoyable is loving them.
We know it .. we preach it.. we need to do it.
Put our actions where our mouth is.

I'm not following you in the least. I don't want to strawman your position. But what in the world do you mean by "selfishly forcing people to do what we want, is not loving them"? I don't want to force the Russians into doing anything. I have nothing against their Russians. They are good providers of gas. They have some contributions to the space program. Their hockey team is good. But I'm just against them invading other countries.

Always be mindful of the different context we can put things in. I usually try to think of many different points of view. You have to consider the reason from the Russians point of view why they would do such things. Ukraine controls land that is desperately needed to support commerce for everyone.. not just Russia Ukraine and NATO. Ukraine an harm any and all of them by simply denying access to any of them.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Russia's attempt destroy Ukraine will fail. Putin is pulling back. Most experts predict full retreat to Eastern Ukraine (Dontesk) in the next two weeks or so.

Putin will survive the setback, reform the military, and have another bite at the cherry in two or four years. He will definitely succeed with the annexation of all of Ukraine if part of the withdrawal agreement is Ukraine's demilitarisation, and probably even if the US/NATO provides Ukraine with a couple of billion dollars worth of armaments and training.

Except Russia has been strangled economically and those high end sanctions including Swift provide Ukraine substantial bargaining power regarding terms for peace such Putin out of Ukraine and paying for Crimea and the damage.

Ukraine is currently in a WWI standstill and it is up to Putin just how much more damage he wants to expose Russia and its military to.

The damage is not to Russia...

It is to the Russian economy and the young conscripts that were tossed into an attempted external military coup through broad show of force turn into muddled attempt at forcing regime change with the Russian military.

...it is to our entire existence once the nukes start flying like that bugs bunny cartoon where they keep bringing out bigger and bigger weapons…
Russia is saying to Ukraine do not attempt to control our economy or we are prepared to blow you to smithereenies

Ukraine consists of Slavs. The Russian people would never support mass scale murder of their own people.

It’s a matter of control of the commerce Hugh must be available to ALL for the survival of them ALL… one stupid little dictator can topple the apple cart… Russia Ukraine NATO could destroy it for everyone.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

This was no attempt to destroy Ukraine. That you’ll not benefit Russia. It was a control device to make the world know any attempt by any country to block access to the Black Sea would result in a war the Ukraine would not survive even with NATO support if they could get it. This is Russia using Ukraine like a political football… just a safety not a field goal or touchdown.. Russia has to much to gain by keeping the Ukraine as an asset.

Look at the map. Russia had Crimea before the war, and even if it didn't, it still would have other ports in the black sea. So what you're saying is utter bullshit. On the other hand, Russia in this war is clearly attempting to take the entire Ukrainian coastline from sea of Azov to Odessa (although the latter plan may have been delayed or abandoned due to Ukrainian resistance), thereby blocking Ukraine's access to the black sea.

Like all pro-Russian apologists, or idiots who believe Russian propaganda, you're blaming Ukraine for the things that Russia is actually doing.

And of course like so many ignorant people anti Russian fear mongers like the Ukrainian will try and use their victim mentality to force others to support their power grabbing attempt

 

[Patooka]

Barbos is going to be furious if/when he comes back and finds someone else encroaching on his turf. Can't we go back to amusing bullshit like Ukraine is run by Nazis? This whole, "Putin is invading another country as a defensive measure", is purely asinine.

 

[crazyfingers]

This was no attempt to destroy Ukraine. That you’ll not benefit Russia. It was a control device to make the world know any attempt by any country to block access to the Black Sea would result in a war the Ukraine would not survive even with NATO support if they could get it. This is Russia using Ukraine like a political football… just a safety not a field goal or touchdown.. Russia has to much to gain by keeping the Ukraine as an asset.

Look at the map. Russia had Crimea before the war, and even if it didn't, it still would have other ports in the black sea. So what you're saying is utter bullshit. On the other hand, Russia in this war is clearly attempting to take the entire Ukrainian coastline from sea of Azov to Odessa (although the latter plan may have been delayed or abandoned due to Ukrainian resistance), thereby blocking Ukraine's access to the black sea.

Like all pro-Russian apologists, or idiots who believe Russian propaganda, you're blaming Ukraine for the things that Russia is actually doing.

And of course like so many ignorant people anti Russian fear mongers like the Ukrainian will try and use their victim mentality to force others to support their power grabbing attempt

Russia has no credibility when it comes to peacefully coexisting with it's neighbors and to claim that Ukraine is attempting a power grab is batshit crazy.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

This was no attempt to destroy Ukraine. That you’ll not benefit Russia. It was a control device to make the world know any attempt by any country to block access to the Black Sea would result in a war the Ukraine would not survive even with NATO support if they could get it. This is Russia using Ukraine like a political football… just a safety not a field goal or touchdown.. Russia has to much to gain by keeping the Ukraine as an asset.

What he has accomplished is exposed his army's total incompetence on the world stage. The world used to be afraid of the Russian army, now they are not. This makes it much more likely that others who lived in fear of a Russian invasion will now stand up to Pootin.

It also means that there will now be a bunch of nations scrambling to become nuclear powers. The NPT is going in the trash. The world is a more dangerous place.

Russia does not need competence .. it just needs to push two little buttons to utterly destroy the Ukraine and everything in it… duh…

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

The damage is not to Russia it is to our entire existence once the nukes start flying like that bugs bunny cartoon where they keep bringing out bigger and bigger weapons…
Russia is saying to Ukraine do not attempt to control our economy or we are prepared to blow you to smithereenies

Ukraine wasn't trying to control Russia's economy in the first place. They were just refusing to kowtow to Moscow.

And we have seen the majority of Russian missiles fail when someone pulled the trigger. I expect it to be much worse with their nukes. Their boomers are hardly able to patrol and would most likely be sunk before they could even try to fire their birds.

I can assure you that any military that has created nuclear weapons knows how to use them.. even if their fodder peons do not.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

And what you said is exactly why someone will push that button and use the only weapon they have that will “win” the war for them.. a preemptive strike but at what ? There are too many missles from too many directions to stop the destruction of our ecosystem.

The threat to Pootin is internal, not external. Nobody's going to invade Russia and he knows that. The only thing he could possibly accomplish is to nuke Ukraine and if he took that option the current isolation would be nothing compared to what would follow.

Isolation for what? Swatting a bothersome trouble making gnat? Russia then leaves the uncontrolled region for peaceful settlers to take over.

 

[Elixir]

Barbos is going to be furious if/when he comes back and finds someone else encroaching on his turf.

Seems to have been replaced alright.

Can't we go back to amusing bullshit like Ukraine is run by Nazis? This whole, "Putin is invading another country as a defensive measure", is purely asinine.

That may be a reason for the reassignment.

 

[Patooka]

I can assure you that any military that has created nuclear weapons knows how to use them.. even if their fodder peons do not.

We've all seen some pretty compelling evidence that suggests Russia's missiles would have a difficult time leaving their silos. Duh.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Domination by some mini military force over the Russian nuclear arsenal. Do not wake up the sleeping Russian bear. Poking him with a stick is annoying him.. for now… but that bear can wipe away that annoying ant with a single swipe of its paw.

You've got that stick backwards. That bear poked a wasp's nest.

And the Russians can easily Destroy that nes with a couple nuclear multiple warhead missles.

 

[Patooka]

Oh goody, we've moved on from "Russia was acting in self defense" to 13 year old fanboy rhetoric.