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About the War in Yemen

Rhea

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Elsewhere in the world, a 7 year war in Yemen, that is termed as a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, with the UN and US joing the side of the Saudis, has just announced a truce, while neogiations happen between a new (still Saudi backed) President and the Iran-aligned Houthis.


The harm and suffering of the Yemenis has been tragic - and barely covered in western media.
 
It has been covered. Saudi vs Iran proxy war. Iran is our enemy so Saudi Arabia with ts baerbaric system is our friend.

Unfortunatly we are assieng the Saudis. One of our hypocrisies. We condemn Russia and rightly so for oppression in Russia and war in Ukraine, yet we support the opressive Saudis with no free speech who murdered an ex pat Saudi reporter is our friend.

We need to get off of oila nd tell the Saudis to go to hell.
 
Unfortunatly we are assieng the Saudis.
We are not assisting them enough. US could have flown sorties for a few weeks and destroyed Houthi C&C, heavy equipment (like missiles they use to attack Saudi cities) and any infantry massing. Then the Yemeni Army could have mopped the remaining Houthis up.

One of our hypocrisies. We condemn Russia and rightly so for oppression in Russia and war in Ukraine,
Not at all comparable. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an outright war of aggression. Yemen is Iranian proxies the Houthis (whose motto is, by the way "Allah is great, death to the US, death to Israel, curse the Jews, and victory for Islam") overthrowing the government.

yet we support the opressive Saudis with no free speech
They are oppressive, yes. But if the monarchy were to fail, what would result would probably be orders of magnitude worse - Islamic State bad even. And MbS has been instituting some long overdue reforms. Regarding Yemen specifically, it is not in US - or western world's - interest that Iran gain a foothold on the Arabian Peninsula. Bad enough that IRGC have their tentacles all over Syria, Lebanon and the Gaza Strip!

who murdered an ex pat Saudi reporter is our friend.
Jamal Khashoggi was hardly a "reporter". He was an opinion writer. And really, to cut the bullshit, he was a propagandist for the Islamist "Muslim Brotherhood".
Death of a dissident | What the media aren’t saying about Jamal Khashoggi

The Spectator said:
In truth, Khashoggi never had much time for western-style pluralistic democracy. In the 1970s he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, which exists to rid the Islamic world of western influence. He was a political Islamist until the end, recently praising the Muslim Brotherhood in the Washington Post. He championed the ‘moderate’ Islamist opposition in Syria, whose crimes against humanity are a matter of record. Khashoggi frequently sugarcoated his Islamist beliefs with constant references to freedom and democracy. But he never hid that he was in favour of a Muslim Brotherhood arc throughout the Middle East. His recurring plea to bin Salman in his columns was to embrace not western-style democracy, but the rise of political Islam which the Arab Spring had inadvertently given rise to. For Khashoggi, secularism was the enemy.

Doesn't justify the murder, of course, but let's not pretend that he was something he wasn't. It is best understood as an internal Saudi power struggle.

Speaking of his murder, there has been a development on that too:
Turkey to move trial of Khashoggi suspects to Saudi Arabia

We need to get off of oila nd tell the Saudis to go to hell.
Drill (domestically), baby, drill!
Yes, we need to get off oil (eventually), but even under best case scenarios it will take a few more decades.
 
Yemen and Ethiopia are both ethic civil wars.

SA wanted the USA to attack and said they would pay for us, that would make us mercenaries. We sell them planes and train their pilots. Tey are culturally backwards, an anachronistic medieval oppressive theocracy.
unwritten agreement since the Russians pulled out of the region was that the USA provides regional security for SA and they keep the oil flowing and prices low.

As far as I am concerned let the Sunnis and Shi s slaughter each other over religion untill they get sick of it.

It is pathetic to have our presidents begging for more oil.

Afghanistan, Irq, and Syria were costly failures. They clesrly demonstrate that there is no solution to stability and peace when peole chose death and destruction unable to compromise.

The fyndamnetal Persian-Arab Ira- Saudi Arabia cinflict is over who is the real Muslim going back to Mohamed. The Saudi family set itself up as a monarchy and constitutionally the defender of the faith and Mecca.

The Iran theists see SA as an illegitimate monarchy that should be replaced with the Iranian theocracy. It is a blood feud.

Let the Arabs pick up a gun and go fight in Yemen.

Saudi Arabia is worse than Iran. Apostasy can carry the death penalty, by beheading. There were beheadings through the 90s.


We handed Iraq a democracy and they turned on each other then on us. In the end Afghans were unwilling to fight for themselves.

There is a point to helping Ukraine. They are unified and willing to fight and die.

Like Afghanistan the only solution is one side gaining authorterian control and forcing stability.
 
Yemen is Iranian proxies the Houthis (whose motto is, by the way "Allah is great, death to the US, death to Israel, curse the Jews, and victory for Islam") overthrowing the government.
Do you have a source you recommend for reading more about this? I was browsing al Jazeera looking for some background, prompted by a lefty podcast that painted the conflict as very one-sided and I wanted to see if that was true.
 
Yemen and Ethiopia are both ethic civil wars.

SA wanted the USA to attack and said they would pay for us, that would make us mercenaries. We sell them planes and train their pilots. Tey are culturally backwards, an anachronistic medieval oppressive theocracy.
unwritten agreement since the Russians pulled out of the region was that the USA provides regional security for SA and they keep the oil flowing and prices low.

As far as I am concerned let the Sunnis and Shi s slaughter each other over religion untill they get sick of it.

It is pathetic to have our presidents begging for more oil.

Afghanistan, Irq, and Syria were costly failures. They clesrly demonstrate that there is no solution to stability and peace when peole chose death and destruction unable to compromise.

The fyndamnetal Persian-Arab Ira- Saudi Arabia cinflict is over who is the real Muslim going back to Mohamed. The Saudi family set itself up as a monarchy and constitutionally the defender of the faith and Mecca.

The Iran theists see SA as an illegitimate monarchy that should be replaced with the Iranian theocracy. It is a blood feud.

Let the Arabs pick up a gun and go fight in Yemen.

Saudi Arabia is worse than Iran. Apostasy can carry the death penalty, by beheading. There were beheadings through the 90s.


We handed Iraq a democracy and they turned on each other then on us. In the end Afghans were unwilling to fight for themselves.

There is a point to helping Ukraine. They are unified and willing to fight and die.

Like Afghanistan the only solution is one side gaining authorterian control and forcing stability.
Yea, I really don't think that we should even think about getting involved in any mid-eastern war. I think that we should only get involved where we have a viable ally; that it's a democracy; that it has a reasonable chance of winning (or not losing) and where we have substantial allies around that country. We aren't rich enough that we can help a country that is totally isolated. And finally, if Ukraine falls, NATO countries are next.
 
Yemen is Iranian proxies the Houthis (whose motto is, by the way "Allah is great, death to the US, death to Israel, curse the Jews, and victory for Islam") overthrowing the government.
Do you have a source you recommend for reading more about this? I was browsing al Jazeera looking for some background, prompted by a lefty podcast that painted the conflict as very one-sided and I wanted to see if that was true.
Try searching on Sunni Shla split for one. Then the Iranian resolution and how e democracy faction lost to the relgious fudamnatalists.


It is an ethnic wa with religious overtones. It is an Arab Iran proxy war. I'd have to look up the country. In the past SA sent troops to a mid east stae to prop up a govt under assault by Iranian influences. In SA

US Navy intercepts weapons shipment from Iran to Yemen's Houthis. The US military announced Wednesday that it had seized over 1,000 AK-47 assault rifles and more than 200,000 rounds of ammunition, which were assessed to have been sent from Iran to Yemen's Houthis.Dec 23, 2021
Iran suppresses Suni, SA suppress Shia. In SA I think switching sides can carry a death penalty. The Arabs esoecialy SA live in a mesieval kind of reality.


The origin of Shia–Sunni relations can be traced back to a dispute over the succession to the Islamic prophet Muhammad as a caliph of the Islamic community. After the death of the Islamic prophet Muhammad in 632, a group of Muslims, who would come to be known as the Sunnis, believed that Muhammad's successor should be Abu Bakr whereas a second group of Muslims, who would come to be known as the Shia, believed that his successor should have been Ali. This dispute spread across various parts of the Muslim world, which eventually led to the Battle of Jamal and Battle of Siffin. Sectarianism based on this historic dispute intensified greatly after the Battle of Karbala, in which Husayn ibn Ali and some of his close partisans, including members of his household, were killed by the ruling Umayyad Caliph Yazid I, and the outcry for revenge divided the early Islamic community, albeit disproportionately, into two groups, the Sunni and the Shia. This is known today as the Islamic schism.[1]

The present demographic breakdown between the two denominations is difficult to assess and varies by source, but a good approximation is that 90% of the world's Muslims are Sunni and 10% are Shia, with most Shias belonging to the Twelver tradition and the rest divided between many other groups.[2] Sunnis are a majority in almost all Muslim communities around the world. Shia make up the majority of the citizen population in Iran, Iraq, Bahrain, and Azerbaijan, as well as being a small minority in Pakistan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Chad and Kuwait.[13][14]

Today, there are differences in religious practice, traditions, and customs, often related to jurisprudence. Although all Muslim groups consider the Quran to be divine, Sunni and Shia have different opinions on hadith.

In recent years, Sunni–Shia relations have been increasingly marked by conflict,[15] particularly the Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict. Sectarian violence persists to this day from Pakistan to Yemen and is a major element of friction throughout the Middle East and South Asia.[16][17] Tensions between communities have intensified during power struggles, such as the Bahraini uprising, the Iraqi Civil War, the Syrian Civil War, the War in Iraq (2013–2017),[18][19][20] the formation of the self-styled Islamic State of Iraq and Syria that has launched a genocide against Shias.

It started when Iranian supporters in Yemen sent missiles into SA. Since then a number of attacks on infrastructure.



The Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen is an intervention launched by Saudi Arabia on 26 March 2015, leading a coalition of nine countries from West Asia and North Africa, responding to calls from the president of Yemen Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi for military support after he was ousted by the Houthi movement, despite the progress in the political transition led by the United Nations at that time. The conflict ignited between the government forces, the Houthi rebels and other armed groups after the draft constitution and power-sharing arrangements collapsed leading to an escalation of violence in mid-2014. The Houthis and allied units of the armed forces seized control of Sana’a and other parts of the country in September 2014 and in the following months. This prompted President Hadi to ask Saudi Arabia to intervene against the Iranian backed Houthis.

Therr have been assassination attempts on each other. One occurred in the USA.

Search on Iran hegemony. Iran wants to be the regional power topping Arab monarchies, and destroying Israel in the process. It s not a secret, it is Iranian policy. That is why Arabs and Israelis are worried about a nuclear Iran run by extremists. That is why Arabs and Isreal are starting to make nice witheach other. A common enemy.


Lebanon used to be a peaceful place. A tourist destination. Now ti is fractured by multiple factions. A heavily armed Iranian proxy aimed at Israel. Outside of Israel which has a different cultural history, western liberal democracy is not in the cards for the mid east. It is centuries old conflicts down to the family and clan.

So, IMO let them kill each ohther until they get sick of it or there is no one left. May sound harsh, but there is nothing that can be done.

A mid east form of the EU and NATO is impossible.
 
Back in the ‘70’s and probably before, when Yemen was divided into North Yemen and South Yemen, part of the animosity was that one half was embracing communism and seeking to overthrow all monarchs in the region—not just Yemen—and those who wanted to keep the monarchs (again, not just Yemen) and their religion.

This was a time of great tension in the Middle East as some sought to modernize their countries ( including some monarchs) and those who wanted to keep their old ways that included stifling educational opportunities for women and anyone outside of the ruling families, and to adhere to old interpretations of Islam. Throw in ethnic tensions, old rivalries and a lot of history that most outside of the region do not fully grasp and amplify it by the vast opportunities fir greed and corruption from oil and the entire region was only a short distance from holy war: see Iran.

I think Yemen, abs all the various wars in the entire continent t of Africa, as well as the issues between Tibet and China and other regions do not get as much attention in the US and probably much of Europe because most people in the US are far less familiar with the history abs issues of the region: it’s confusing abs complicated.

On the other hand, we DO remember and feel we have ties with Western Europe and have greater understanding of WWI and WWII. It’s easier for us to delineate between the good guys and the bad guys.

Part of this is also enabled because of the secrecy or at least lack of open communication between the west and the countries behind the Iron Curtain.
 
What sources of information can most Americans even find on Yemen if they want to? Talking about Iran at all raises awkward questions that our politicians would intensely prefer not to have to answer, and the news outlets know better than to invest much reporting into a foreign war that doesn't involve very many American citizens. I know more about the Yemen conflict from conversations with my friends in MSF than from any common sources of information.
 
The notion that are there is "good" side to this conflict is naive. The interests of the US are in a no win situation regardless of who ultimately prevails. The idea that the Saudis (or their proxies) are our friends is delusional.

Ending the suffering ASAP should be our goal regardless of the side that prevails.
 
There is seldom if ever a "good side" in a war, certainly not an unblemished one, so seeking out that side cannot be a rational priority in international decision-making.
 
With regards to the Middle East, part of ‘our interest’ in the region has to do with wanting access to oil, of course. Another part is rooted in competition between the Soviets and the Western powers, both of whom wanted access to oil and also to win these oil rich nations for ‘our’ side. The Soviet’s were happy to fuel/fund revolution. We were happy to tolerate or install western friendly rulers. For the win and for the oil.

None of this is flattering to the US, it’s difficult to understand because of the complex non-euro cd tested history. And then through in plenty of religious fundamentalism all over the world and we have a big pile of conflict that most of us would prefer to ignore.

Absolutely, there are no clean hands in this conflict or in probably any armed conflict.
 
There is seldom if ever a "good side" in a war, certainly not an unblemished one, so seeking out that side cannot be a rational priority in international decision-making.
Really? So, the current war in Ukraine does not have a clear cut "good side"?
 
Yemen is Iranian proxies the Houthis (whose motto is, by the way "Allah is great, death to the US, death to Israel, curse the Jews, and victory for Islam") overthrowing the government.
Do you have a source you recommend for reading more about this? I was browsing al Jazeera looking for some background, prompted by a lefty podcast that painted the conflict as very one-sided and I wanted to see if that was true.

Al Jazeera is not a trustworthy source these days.

Fundamentally, this is a manifestation of the Sunni/Shia war. Yemen is simply the hottest battleground in a much broader war.

I think most westerners don't care because both sides are bad and the reality is that we can't hope to solve the problems. If anything it's good for us--that's effort spent on internal fighting rather than attacking everyone else.
 
There is seldom if ever a "good side" in a war, certainly not an unblemished one, so seeking out that side cannot be a rational priority in international decision-making.
Really? So, the current war in Ukraine does not have a clear cut "good side"?
I have very strong sympathies toward Ukraine, and I think I have been clear enough about that on this forum and in multiple threads. Russia is unambiguously the aggressor in this case, and Vladimir Putin is the worst war criminal this planet has seen in more than a decade. But let's not pretend war is anything other than what it is. Not all Ukrainians are "good people" nor all Russians "bad", and the longer the conflict stretches, the more blood and atrocity will pile up on either "side" with the people of Ukraine left as the maimed victims of a conflict they had no true voice in initiating or abstaining from. I saw a video clip of a older woman who had just lost her son. Russian soldiers were watching as the neighborhood buried some of their recent victims, and her son commented that one of the deceased had been a close friend of his. Angered, the Russians shot him in the head as well, dropping him before he could finish his sentence. She was sobbing with grief/rage. "I know a Christian is supposed to forgive, to love their enemy," she said through a translator, "but I can never love these animals now. I wish I were younger. A man. I wish I could kill them all". I am pretty certain that she meant every word of that sentence. Severe trauma however unearned does not magically turn you into a good person. In fact, it is more likely to cloud your ability to see or do much good in the world at all. War is hell, and it makes this planet a living hell for everyone involved.
 
I don't think a black and white good bad moral dichotomy exists. Certainly to me as an American enjoying our Bill Of Rights Russia, China, and the Arab states are bad to put it simply. China is open to debate as to positives and negates, Russia and the Arabs are not to me.

To me pragmatvally without Isreal in the mix an Iranian dominatedregion would be far better for the people than the Arabs. Without sanctions Iran would have a growing diverse economy, something the Arabs with all their money has been unable to do.

I liken SA to the old show Beverly Hillbillies. Jed Clampet a poor backwoods guy stumbles on oil on his property and finds himself rich living in La. His family dresses and acts like they are back in the Tennessee hills while living in a luxurious mansion.

I read the Saudi constitution, it is online. All things must in the end conform to the Koran. I looked at the constitutions of sveral Muslim staes including the mew Iraq document. It can be shaded to declaer things like freedom of religion and speech, but there is a caveat against conflicting with the Koran. The polar opposite of wetern liberal democracies and the source of conflict in the Muslim world.

Ukraine I cre about, Yemen I do not. Yemeni people are creting their own troubles. Yiu woud think they woud all look at dead childern and ask themseves what the hell are we doing. Same in Ethiopia.

Russia and Ukraine represent a threat to the EU and indirectly to our economy and freedom. The only reason we are in the mid eat is oil. American and European business built the Saudi oil infrastructure and then they nationalized it.

I do not accept the progressive view that all cultures are equal and deserve equal elevation.
 
What sources of information can most Americans even find on Yemen if they want to? Talking about Iran at all raises awkward questions that our politicians would intensely prefer not to have to answer, and the news outlets know better than to invest much reporting into a foreign war that doesn't involve very many American citizens. I know more about the Yemen conflict from conversations with my friends in MSF than from any common sources of information.
I am rather surprised that the Motorcycle Safety Foundation have an interest in Yemen.
 
I think the clearest way to help any middle eastern country is to develop solar, wind, nuclear power using as non-toxic of a production chain as we can manage, so that the thing that is "big oil" dies a quiet death, and all the violent assholes that have grown up around "king of the hill profiteers on world energy" find themselves warring over nothing but "sticky, flammable, toxic sand", and all the guns and weapons that they don't make themselves breaking down over time because they didn't make them and nobody is fueling their bullshit anymore.
 
What sources of information can most Americans even find on Yemen if they want to? Talking about Iran at all raises awkward questions that our politicians would intensely prefer not to have to answer, and the news outlets know better than to invest much reporting into a foreign war that doesn't involve very many American citizens. I know more about the Yemen conflict from conversations with my friends in MSF than from any common sources of information.
I am rather surprised that the Motorcycle Safety Foundation have an interest in Yemen.
Doctors Without Borders (MSF) more so. But I suspect that your MSF would also be horrified by the current state of things; motorbikes are common, helmets much less so.
 
What sources of information can most Americans even find on Yemen if they want to? Talking about Iran at all raises awkward questions that our politicians would intensely prefer not to have to answer, and the news outlets know better than to invest much reporting into a foreign war that doesn't involve very many American citizens. I know more about the Yemen conflict from conversations with my friends in MSF than from any common sources of information.
I am rather surprised that the Motorcycle Safety Foundation have an interest in Yemen.
Médecins Sans Frontières

French, the English equivalent is Doctors Without Borders.
 
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