Trans Derail From Ilhan Omar vs. Colorism

[Metaphor]

Quillette is not 'known' for any such thing, except by the people who are already biased against it.

What lies were in Quillette's article?

He linked to an evaluation of the accuracy of Quillette's reporting.

ZiprHead dismissed a report without reading it, and he used fallacious reasoning to dismiss it. He didn't read the article to point out how it was wrong.

There is no epidemic of trans murders. ZiprHead knows it. Worse, he wants us to believe there is, without sproducing any evidence.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I already told you I did read it.

I didn't say the article was wrong, I ponted out the source is untrustworthy.

I provided four other sources that confirm violence against trans people is on the rise. I never said there is an epidemic.

You play pretty fast and loose with facts.

If you read it, then I presume you have the cognitive wherewithal to have understood it.

I know you didn't say the article was wrong. That's the point. You dismissed it but didn't say how it was wrong. Is it wrong? You said 'try again' as if you had somehow pointed out how it was wrong.

The number of people identifying as trans is also on the rise. Even with no overall increase in prejudice or "hate", the number of incidents would rise.

Finally, here's the big question: where is the evidence that Dave Chappelle's words, or words like his, is literally killing people?

You won't find it because words don't kill people and they never have.

 

[Trausti]

Don't think this killed anyone.

 

[none]

Quillette is not 'known' for any such thing, except by the people who are already biased against it.

What lies were in Quillette's article?

He linked to an evaluation of the accuracy of Quillette's reporting.

ZiprHead dismissed a report without reading it, and he used fallacious reasoning to dismiss it. He didn't read the article to point out how it was wrong.

There is no epidemic of trans murders. ZiprHead knows it. Worse, he wants us to believe there is, without sproducing any evidence.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I already told you I did read it.

I didn't say the article was wrong, I ponted out the source is untrustworthy.

I provided four other sources that confirm violence against trans people is on the rise. I never said there is an epidemic.

You play pretty fast and loose with facts.

If you read it, then I presume you have the cognitive wherewithal to have understood it.

I know you didn't say the article was wrong. That's the point. You dismissed it but didn't say how it was wrong. Is it wrong? You said 'try again' as if you had somehow pointed out how it was wrong.

The number of people identifying as trans is also on the rise. Even with no overall increase in prejudice or "hate", the number of incidents would rise.

Finally, here's the big question: where is the evidence that Dave Chappelle's words, or words like his, is literally killing people?

You won't find it because words don't kill people and they never have.

hmm.. do attitudes change... seems kinda odd to me too...i guess...

 

[Emily Lake]

Again: you must be fucking kidding.

The left continually attacks people who make choices they don't like, including (but not limited to) leveraging the State against them.

The left attacks those who attack others. That's defense, not offense.

The left attacks anybody and everybody whose views differ from theirs. The left attacked Lil Nas X for saying he liked dick, for fuck's sake. The left attacked JK Rowling for saying women as a sex class exist, for fuck's sake. The left define any view opposed to theirs as an 'attack' on them. For fuck's sake, the left think Dave Chappelle's joke in his latest special is literally killing trans people.

Transgender people face extraordinary levels of physical and sexual violence, whether on the streets, at school or work, at home, or at the hands of government officials. More than one in four trans people has faced a bias-driven assault, and rates are higher for trans women and trans people of color.

BTW, can you provide the text of Chappelle's joke?

https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021...crease-hate-crimes-against-transgender-people

In 2020... 236 hate crimes against transgender people, 35 killed.

From that same source, 1,051 hate crimes against non-trans gay and lesbian people.

https://now.org/resource/violence-against-women-in-the-united-states-statistic/

For comparison...

Over a thousand women killed by intimate partners, 4.8 Million intimate partner violent and sexual assaults per year toward women, Over 230 Thousand women sexually assault (not by intimate partners) per year - that's about 600 per day.

 

[none]

Again: you must be fucking kidding.

The left continually attacks people who make choices they don't like, including (but not limited to) leveraging the State against them.

The left attacks those who attack others. That's defense, not offense.

The left attacks anybody and everybody whose views differ from theirs. The left attacked Lil Nas X for saying he liked dick, for fuck's sake. The left attacked JK Rowling for saying women as a sex class exist, for fuck's sake. The left define any view opposed to theirs as an 'attack' on them. For fuck's sake, the left think Dave Chappelle's joke in his latest special is literally killing trans people.

Transgender people face extraordinary levels of physical and sexual violence, whether on the streets, at school or work, at home, or at the hands of government officials. More than one in four trans people has faced a bias-driven assault, and rates are higher for trans women and trans people of color.

BTW, can you provide the text of Chappelle's joke?

https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021...crease-hate-crimes-against-transgender-people

In 2020... 236 hate crimes against transgender people, 35 killed.

From that same source, 1,051 hate crimes against non-trans gay and lesbian people.

https://now.org/resource/violence-against-women-in-the-united-states-statistic/

For comparison...

Over a thousand women killed by intimate partners, 4.8 Million intimate partner violent and sexual assaults per year toward women, Over 230 Thousand women sexually assault (not by intimate partners) per year - that's about 600 per day.

fewer intimate partners less mayhem...

 

[Emily Lake]

And making fun of people for intrinsic characteristics is bigotry. And we all know bigotry can sometimes lead to violence.

Do you support insisting that comics no longer make fun of women, or use women as the butt of their jokes?

 

[Emily Lake]

Quillette is known for lying. HRC is known for being truthful.

Mmm... Quillette is known for being heterodox, and predominantly opinion journalism. It has never claimed to be news.

HRC is known for being an activist and lobbying organization. They have a clear agenda, and they speak explicitly and exclusively to that agenda. HRC will NOT present any information that weakens their position, and do NOT represent an unbiased view.

Neither source is news, neither source is unbiased or objective. All you're doing is selectively choosing to trust a source that confirms your bias, and selectively choosing to reject a source that might ask you to challenge your bias.

 

[ZiprHead]

Both Quillette and HRC are biased. It says so right in the Medi Bias Fact Check site. However, Quillette has a history of posting untruths and HRC has a history of posting facts. They are not comparable.

 

[Metaphor]

Both Quillette and HRC are biased. It says so right in the Medi Bias Fact Check site. However, Quillette has a history of posting untruths and HRC has a history of posting facts. They are not comparable.

How do you know the bias of the fact check site? Did it fact check itself?

What untruths has Quillette spread?

 

[Metaphor]

I'm still waiting for ZiprHead to explain what was wrong with the Quillette article he dismissed.

 

[prideandfall]

And making fun of people for intrinsic characteristics is bigotry. And we all know bigotry can sometimes lead to violence.

i don't have a stake in this issue (which i'm saying up front because it's a topic that usually involves a lot of assumptions about other people's positions) but this jumped out at me in a vacuum and i felt compelled to touch on it.

i think i fundamentally disagree with the assertion that making fun of people for an intrinsic characteristic is bigotry - because sometimes there are intrinsic characteristics that are just kinda funny. or in the same vein, sometimes making fun of people serves the greater purpose of making a good point.

for example, dave chapelle's netflix specialsL none of them are anti-trans in any way, but of the 6 specials 4 of them do touch on rhetorical points involving the social issue of trans rights, and they are very good and extremely poignant (and IMO funny though that's subjective).
i think just blanketing any commentary that isn't saccharine sweet in positivity towards trans people as 'bigotry' is kinda dodgy in terms of intellectual integrity, and it seems like a lot of that is going on lately which sadly gives real bigots a lot of ammo to keep making threads about trans issues like it's the end of the world.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm still waiting for ZiprHead to explain what was wrong with the Quillette article he dismissed.

I've told you what was wrong with it several times. Quillette lies to its readers.

 

[Metaphor]

I'm still waiting for ZiprHead to explain what was wrong with the Quillette article he dismissed.

I've told you what was wrong with it several times. Quillette lies to its readers.

What lies? What lies in what articles are you basing your statement on?

Show me where the lies are in the trans article that Trausti linked to. If you cannot, you have no good reason to dismiss it.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm still waiting for ZiprHead to explain what was wrong with the Quillette article he dismissed.

I've told you what was wrong with it several times. Quillette lies to its readers.

What lies? What lies in what articles are you basing your statement on?

Show me where the lies are in the trans article that Trausti linked to. If you cannot, you have no good reason to dismiss it.

Yes, I do.

 

[Metaphor]

I've told you what was wrong with it several times. Quillette lies to its readers.

What lies? What lies in what articles are you basing your statement on?

Show me where the lies are in the trans article that Trausti linked to. If you cannot, you have no good reason to dismiss it.

Yes, I do.

Ok luv.

When you are ready to show how the Quillette article is wrong, I am ready to listen.

 

[ZiprHead]

I've told you what was wrong with it several times. Quillette lies to its readers.

What lies? What lies in what articles are you basing your statement on?

Show me where the lies are in the trans article that Trausti linked to. If you cannot, you have no good reason to dismiss it.

Yes, I do.

Ok luv.

When you are ready to show how the Quillette article is wrong, I am ready to listen.

Thank you for your consideration. Bless your heart.

 

[Elixir]

I saw a tranny on Facebook, Meta. Ya better go git 'em, and straighten them out!

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm always shocked when self-professed "allies" are the only ones using derogatory slurs for the group they're supposedly supporting.

 

[ZiprHead]

In Defense of Cancel Culture...and Dave Chappelle Dave Chappelle's defiant defense of his Netflix special shows why cancel culture is actually a good thing.

If you want to see how comedians should respond to this pedestrian lack of reasoning, look no further than the greatest comedian of this generation—Dave Chappelle.

Chappelle is a master of his craft. His uncanny ability to make people think while not sacrificing his goal of laughter is unparalleled. Others have tried but—if we’re being honest, Lenny Bruce was not that funny; George Carlin was more of a witty performance poet/humorist and Richard Pryor was too talented to compare to any human being who ever stood on stage. Anyone else you think should be on this list was just really really good. Dave Chappelle is a great comedian.

And Dave Chappelle’s comedy is transphobic.

Even after people called out Chappelle’s newly released Netflix special for its transphobia and cultural appropriation (He did kinda steal the usually Caucasian defense: “But one of my best friends was trans,” and the oft-used “I don’t have a transphobic bone in my body”), I refrained from weighing in—not because I was afraid of being canceled. I just thought The Closer wasn’t very good.

While watching it, I kept waiting for him to tie everything together in a way that would explain the lack of jokes per minute. After an hour of him ranting about a community that doesn’t affect his life in any way, I just knew there would be a brilliant denouement. I am rarely offended by anything (even racism doesn’t necessarily offend me), so I wasn’t outraged. But because the justification never materialized, the resulting think pieces seem like a string of culinary reviews of a Tuesday night meal at Applebee’s.

I cannot see into Chappelle’s soul and, even if I could, I am not a trans person, so I can only listen to trans people say this is about transphobia. And, aside from Caitlyn Jenner, every trans person I know or asked had the same opinion.

“Those kinds of jokes, that kind of rhetoric about who you are not being real, not being valid or not being worthy of dignity and respect have an immense toll on the psychology of anyone and any marginalized group,” said transgender activist and writer Raquel Willis during our mutual appearance on MSNBC’s The Cross Connection, adding:

But of course, Dave Chappelle is not just on a playground, he is literally on one of the largest platforms globally...
And yes I know a lot of folks think it’s a jump to see that this will lead to increased violence. But that animus is being stoked when you hear things like trans women are not the women we know ourselves to be. It influences the rhetoric we hear from lawmakers trying to push for trans folks to not be able to use public accommodations or trans students to not be able to go after their passions in sports.

But Chappelle would not be moved.

He wants us to feel sorry that his film is being targeted. If only there was a metaphor for people marginalizing something based on unfounded biases. Say what you will about him, but his stance is one of the whitest stances of all time.

Chappelle’s pedestrian point is that he should be free to practice his art in public but he should be immune to public reaction. Apparently, he believes that laughter is the only response that he will consider valid. Chappelle is essentially saying that that the humanity of trans people is less important than his little film and his freedom to say whatever the fuck he wants. And to make his point, he is only using the trans community as a metaphor.

In a country where white skin and capital is king, the only agency and intersectionality afforded to some people is the right to say “I don’t fuck with you.” And that all cancels culture is. It seems like a man who walked away from $50 million because of the way people laughed would understand that. Black people in 1955 Montgomery, Ala. called it a “bus boycott.” Mistreated employees call it a strike. A person who asks the public to boycott a Netflix show because they feel disrespected is called Dave Chappelle.

Funny how some things go both ways, huh?

 

[prideandfall]

In Defense of Cancel Culture...and Dave Chappelle Dave Chappelle's defiant defense of his Netflix special shows why cancel culture is actually a good thing.

...
And Dave Chappelle’s comedy is transphobic.

except that no, it isn't. not even a little bit. none of his work is.
if you go back and watch all his specials since 2016 and actually listen to the context and the subtext, it's incredibly clear that:
A. he's a bit taken aback by the cultural zeitgeist of the trans movement in relation to the cultural zeitgeist of racial justice.
B. he's critical of assumptions made by trans supporters, while being supportive of being trans in a general sense.

pointing out that there is absolutely a valid question of to what extent the rest of us are obligated to participate in a trans person's self image is not transphobic... that is an incredible rhetorical point, especially since he asks it without providing any kind of answer.
it is a scathing observation about race in america, not bigotry against trans people, to point out that the monumental gains in the cultural sphere that have been made by the trans community in the last 20 years is very likely in no small part due to the fact that prominent white men are the ones doing it that get the most recognition from the public.

so many websites seem really committed to the idea of pretending that these specials are 'transphobic' (the AVClub is another one that just keeps hammering that dead horse at every possible opportunity) and it's kind of revealing that 'lack of catering' is being so conflated with 'insensitivity'.
nothing chapelle has had in any of these specials slags on trans people in any way, he's just not coddling to their position - i personally think that there's an interesting abstract there, about whether strict militant insistence that whatever trans people say must be accepted as reality is the *only* way to be supportive of trans rights.