• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

transients

BH

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
1,073
Location
United States-Texas
Basic Beliefs
Muslim
Palomar telescope took photographs of transients incidentally right before you had the UAP sighting in washington D.C. in 1952.



I know that the video is several minutes long but it is interesting.

It would not surprise me if either the US or the USSR may have had satellites in space before they officially announced sending the "first" one. But I was wondering if perhaps the Germans might have been able to get one up during World War Two perhaps to watch the weather with. What do you more educated about these things think?
 
Last edited:
It would not surprise me if either the US or the USSR may have had satellites in space before they officially announced sending the "firs"t one. But I was wondering if perhaps the Germans might have been able to get one up during World War Two perhaps to watch the weather with. What do you more educated about these things think?
I think it's basically impossible to put up a secret satellite, in a world without lots of existing satellites, for the simple reason that you can't hide them - space is visible from the ground, and satellites are in full sun most of the time.

It's possible to make a small satellite that's not visible to the naked eye, but astronomers have telescopes, and spend a lot of time looking at the sky. If the Germans had launched a satellite during WWII (they didn't, they didn't have a launch vehicle capable of it), plenty of British and American astronomers with no reason to keep it secret would have been talking about it within a few days.

A secret satellite can work today, because there's a shit-load of junk up there: Satellites, spent boosters, bits of broken satellite, Buzz Aldrin's lost camera, etc. You can hide a satellite amongst all the clutter. But in the 1940s, there was nowhere to hide.

The V2 could get into space, which isn't hard, because space is not particularly far away. But it couldn't get into orbit, because orbiting requires you to go fast.

Randall Monroe has an excellent (and humourous) article about this at: https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/
 
Von Braun was an amoral scientist who was obsessed with outing something into orbit. He aligned with the Nazis to pursue his goal.

Anything is possible. Both Russia and the USA had captured German scientists and rockets. Ours worked in secret in the SW.

In the 60s and 70s there were reports of Russian cosmonauts pleading for help on the radio by Amateur Radio operators from unannounced Russian space flights.



Telstar is the name of various communications satellites. The first two Telstar satellites were experimental and nearly identical. Telstar 1 launched on top of a Thor-Delta rocket on July 10, 1962. It successfully relayed through space the first television pictures, telephone calls, and telegraph images, and provided the first live transatlantic television feed. Telstar 2 was launched May 7, 1963. Telstar 1 and 2—though no longer functional—still orbit the Earth.[1]

The satellite was built by a team at Bell Telephone Laboratories that included John Robinson Pierce, who created the project;[3] Rudy Kompfner, who invented the traveling-wave tube transponder that the satellite used;[3][4] and James M. Early, who designed its transistors and solar panels.[5] The satellite is roughly spherical, measures 34.5 inches (880 mm) in length, and weighs about 170 lb (77 kg). Its dimensions were limited by what would fit on one of NASA's Delta rockets. Telstar was spin-stabilized, and its outer surface was covered with solar cells capable of generating 14 watts of electrical power.

Sputnik started us on a space race, in the day it scared the shit out of people, a Russian object orbiting over head.


Sputnik 1 (/ˈspʌtnɪk, ˈspʊtnɪk/, Russian: Спутник-1, Satellite 1) was the first artificial Earth satellite.[6] It was launched into an elliptical low Earth orbit by the Soviet Union on 4 October 1957 as part of the Soviet space program. It sent a radio signal back to Earth for three weeks before its three silver-zinc batteries became depleted. Aerodynamic drag caused it to fall back into the atmosphere on 4 January 1958. The world's first observation was made at the school observatory in Rodewisch (Saxony).[7]

It was a polished metal sphere 58 cm (23 in) in diameter with four external radio antennas to broadcast radio pulses. Its radio signal was easily detectable by amateur radio operators,[8] and the 65° orbital inclination made its flight path cover virtually the entire inhabited Earth.

They were small and light, it did not take a huge rocket or infrastructure to launch. I assume both Russia and us made a number of unannounced launches before one was acknowledged.


Russia had multiple unreported human causalities in the first attempt to get a human into space.

The Air Force had it own manned spaceflight program. There is a story behind it. Somebody found an old spacesuit in a building in the 90s I think with a name o it. Somebody tracked down the person and it led to a documentary. Videos on the net.




The Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL) was part of the United States Air Force (USAF) human spaceflight program in the 1960s. The project was developed from early USAF concepts of crewed space stations as reconnaissance satellites, and was a successor to the canceled Boeing X-20 Dyna-Soar military reconnaissance space plane. Plans for the MOL evolved into a single-use laboratory, for which crews would be launched on 30-day missions, and return to Earth using a Gemini B spacecraft derived from NASA's Gemini spacecraft and launched with the laboratory.

The MOL program was announced to the public on 10 December 1963 as an inhabited platform to demonstrate the utility of putting people in space for military missions; its reconnaissance satellite mission was a secret black project. Seventeen astronauts were selected for the program, including Major Robert H. Lawrence Jr., the first African-American astronaut. The prime contractor for the spacecraft was McDonnell Aircraft Corporation; the laboratory was built by the Douglas Aircraft Company. The Gemini B was externally similar to NASA's Gemini spacecraft, although it underwent several modifications, including the addition of a circular hatch through the heat shield, which allowed passage between the spacecraft and the laboratory. Vandenberg Space Launch Complex 6 (SLC-6) was developed to permit launches into polar orbit.

As the 1960s progressed, the Vietnam War competed with the MOL for funds, and resultant budget cuts repeatedly postponed its first operational flight. At the same time, automated systems rapidly improved, narrowing the benefits of a crewed space platform over an automated one. A single uncrewed test flight of the Gemini B spacecraft was conducted on 3 November 1966, but the MOL was canceled in June 1969 without any crewed missions being flown.

Seven of the astronauts transferred to NASA in August 1969 as NASA Astronaut Group 7, all of whom eventually flew in space on the Space Shuttle between 1981 and 1985. The Titan IIIM rocket developed for the MOL never flew, but its UA1207 solid rocket boosters were used on the Titan IV, and the Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Booster was based on materials, processes and designs developed for them. NASA spacesuits were derived from the MOL ones, MOL's waste management system flew in space on Skylab, and NASA Earth Science used other MOL equipment. SLC-6 was refurbished, but plans to have military Space Shuttle launches from there were abandoned in the wake of the January 1986 Space Shuttle Challenger disaster.
Background

Who knows what went on on both sides from the end of WWII to the publicly announced space flights and launches.
 
I looked at the paper* on the “triple transient” from the Palomar Optical Sky Survey and I find it interesting that it seems they only looked at the digitized version. If they wanted to rule out certain types of artifacts I would think they would go to the original glass plates.

The problem in astronomy is that if you only ever have a single observation of something it will likely remain a mystery.

*https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.09035.pd

Edited to add: furthermore, almost 6000 of these transients have been seen in the Palomar Optical Sky Survey. See this site:

http://svocats.cab.inta-csic.es/vanish/
 
They were small and light, it did not take a huge rocket or infrastructure to launch. I assume both Russia and us made a number of unannounced launches before one was acknowledged.
Disagree--we couldn't cover up the launch of even a small orbital vehicle. We might have been able to pretend it was something else, though.

But that doesn't change the fact that sooner or later some pissed off astronomer would find anything big enough that stayed up there long enough.
Who knows what went on on both sides from the end of WWII to the publicly announced space flights and launches.
Suborbital, yes. Orbital, no.
 
There is the SETI WOW signal. A one time detection of an apparent signal recorded o on a paper strip recorder. Somebody wrote WOW on he chart.

I think the first gamma ray burst was detected by orbiting nuclear bomb detectors.

There was a global collaborative effort to catch an optical picture when an event was detected.

Cold here be one time transients? Sure. Serendipity is always part of discovery. An antenna on a college campus was being tested and nobody culd figure out a noise problem. It turned out to be noise from space, the CMBR.

In the 80s I was flying a small pane near Keene NH. I saw what appeared to be a bright object coming at me at high speed. I made a panic turn and when I looked around there was nothing. I circled around and found it was the sun reflecting off something on the ground.


The video in the link sounds like one of those dramatized TV shows on ETs and alleged mysterious phenomena. The narrator's tone of voice is right out of a show. Gravitas , uber serious.

I am very suspicious of those Navy videos of an alleged small impossibly fast and maneuverable object. I know something about optics and video to me it seems more like an artifact.
 
Sputnik started us on a space race, in the day it scared the shit out of people
The scary thing was that it demonstrated a key capability - a rocket that can put a satellite into orbit can hit a target anywhere on the Earth's surface with a payload of similar mass.

Sputnik proved that the USSR could hit the USA with nuclear weapons without flying them to the USA on bomber aircraft.

Bombers can be intercepted, and shot down before they reach their targets - particularly if they have to fly intercontinental distances; A Russian bomber raid on the US would have to fly across at least one ocean, Atlantic, Pacific, or Arctic, in the face of a highly effective NATO fighter defence, before they even got close enough for AAA to be a consideration. The US SIOP was based on a missile led strike against Soviet ICBM sites, followed by air superiority and then air supremacy sorties by NATO aircraft targeting RADARs, SAMs, and airfields, that would clear the way for bomber aircraft (mostly B-52s) to fly to and over the USSR without being blown out of the sky. The B52s couldn't have effectively struck the USSR without this support, they would have mostly been shot down in short order. Russia had no similar capability to destroy US homeland defence anti-aircraft systems, and certainly in the 1960s would have struggled to hit US targets without an initial ICBM and SLBM strike to weaken the ability of the Americans to kill the bombers.

Ballistic rockets could not, in the 1950s, be intercepted or shot down (Both USA and USSR experimented with ABM systems in the late '50s and early '60s, but these were never expected to be very effective. Workable systems weren't developed until the 1990s, and even these would have been useless against the saturation attacks available to both Cold War protagonists - even if you can stop 90% of a 10,000 warhead strike, you still get hit by 1,000 nukes).

Sputnik showed the American homeland to be impossible to effectively defend against a Soviet attack.
 
Palomar telescope took photographs of transients incidentally right before you had the UAP sighting in washington D.C. in 1952.



I know that the video is several minutes long but it is interesting.

It would not surprise me if either the US or the USSR may have had satellites in space before they officially announced sending the "firs"t one. But I was wondering if perhaps the Germans might have been able to get one up during World War Two perhaps to watch the weather with. What do you more educated about these things think?

Beyond the obvious technical problems of putting a satellite into orbit, along with receiving useful data from it, Germany couldn't have afforded such a project.

The first US satellite capable of capturing images from space was in 1959. This piece of space age technology took pictures until the film ran out, then threw the camera out to deorbit, or more specifically, crash someplace we could find it.
 
Beyond the obvious technical problems of putting a satellite into orbit, along with receiving useful data from it, Germany couldn't have afforded such a project.
Germany couldn't afford the rocket and cruise missile programs they actually embarked on, either.

The A4/V2 was a collossal drain on the overstretched war economy, and the Fi103/V1 wasn't much better.

The materials, research staff, engineering staff, and even the slave labour used in those projects would have been vastly more effective to the German war effort if they had instead been directed to jet aircraft, for example; Or even towards more conventional aircraft, tanks, submarines, and ships.

SS-Sturmbannführer Wernher von Braun was actually arrested by the Gestapo in part for having suggested that his research might one day be expanded to include a space launch vehicle; This suggestion that he might not be completely focussed on weapons and the war effort was considered treasonous in the insanity of the last years of the Third Reich. He was eventually released without charge, to resume his work on the A4, which was by then (bizarrely) rated as the highest priority military project in the entire Reich.
 
In the 80s I was flying a small pane near Keene NH. I saw what appeared to be a bright object coming at me at high speed. I made a panic turn and when I looked around there was nothing. I circled around and found it was the sun reflecting off something on the ground.
Lame!

I circled around and found the UFO had landed on the ground.
Much better!
 
In the 80s I was flying a small pane near Keene NH. I saw what appeared to be a bright object coming at me at high speed. I made a panic turn and when I looked around there was nothing. I circled around and found it was the sun reflecting off something on the ground.
Lame!

I circled around and found the UFO had landed on the ground.
Much better!
Please do not post false quotes under my name.
 
Besides, UFOs can beam your ass up, no need to land on the ground.
 
In the 80s I was flying a small pane near Keene NH. I saw what appeared to be a bright object coming at me at high speed. I made a panic turn and when I looked around there was nothing. I circled around and found it was the sun reflecting off something on the ground.
Lame!

I circled around and found the UFO had landed on the ground.
Much better!
Please do not post false quotes under my name.
Isn't it obvious that this was a "fixed-it" type thing? Humor, not that you really said the second version.
 
Besides, UFOs can beam your ass up, no need to land on the ground.
What is it with aliens and asses? Those guys are worryingly obsessed with our backsides.
Well, they want to find out if our bodies can be used to produce any interesting transformations of stuff in its quest to become bodily waste, you see, much like we ourselves drink strange cow juice and bee vomit.

/s
 
Besides, UFOs can beam your ass up, no need to land on the ground.
What is it with aliens and asses? Those guys are worryingly obsessed with our backsides.
Well, they want to find out if our bodies can be used to produce any interesting transformations of stuff in its quest to become bodily waste, you see, much like we ourselves drink strange cow juice and bee vomit.

/s
They're looking for the next Kopi Luwak.
 
Back
Top Bottom