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The Race For 2024

TSwizzle said:
I have a problem with illegal aliens committing murder (or other crimes) in the USA.
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But you have no problem with thousands of “your people” following a lie, making ILLEGAL entry to the nation’s Capitol, injuring 140 law enforcement officers and KILLING a few of them in pursuit of an ILLEGAL overthrow of a free and fair election.
Go figure. Is there a rational explanation for this, or are we to simply accept that hypocrisy is a mainstream “value” of the Trumpsucking right wing?
 
What can be said for the politicians who would make hay out of the death of someone's child? Or the journalists who would use such a tragedy to stir up their rubes? Not so bad as those who would commit murder but a detriment to society none the less. Why must we suffer such people?
 
TV and credit cards said:
What can be said for the politicians who would make hay out of the death of someone's child? Or the journalists who would use such a tragedy to stir up their rubes? Not so bad as those who would commit murder but a detriment to society none the less. Why must we suffer such people?
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So much this!

If I were the family and a bunch of lowlife people were using my child's death like that I'd be incredibly angry about it.

Possibly more than at the murderer, if you added it all together. Because I might learn enough about the murderer to develop a shred of sympathy and forgiveness for him.
Tom
 
Politesse said:
TSwizzle said:
Politesse said:
TSwizzle said:
The difference is, this particular murder could have and should have been prevented. It happened because the murderer entered the USA illegally and was not kicked out when he was discovered
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This person did not commit murder because his paperwork had not been filed correctly. And even if he had, the murder would still be the upsetting part about it, to me. Not the lack of documentation.
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Laken Riley is dead because her killer, Jose Ibarra was in the USA illegally. Had he been kicked out of the USA, she would be alive today.
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No, Laken Riley is dead because Jose Ibarra murdered her. The murder, not the status of his immigration papers, was the crime he committed.
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Ibarra's "immigration status" was also a crime. He could have and should have been booted out of the USA the first time he was arrested and Laken Riley would would not have died at his hands.

Politesse said:
If the bureaucratic state kept perfect tabs on every single citizen and non-citizen in the country, murders would still happen every day, and it would be no consolation at all to the bereaved that their loved ones were murdered by citizens.
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But this particular murder would have been prevented.
 
TSwizzle said:
But this particular murder would have been prevented.
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That's true of pretty much all murders. What bothers you is the politics surrounding this one. It was committed by a man let into the country in 2022, so you think you can blame Joe Biden for this particular murder. And you ignore all the murders committed by so-called "illegals" that were committed by recent immigrants during the Trump administration. Better yet, for your political smear campaign, Venezuelans were given protected immigrant status by Mayorkas during the Biden administration, never mind the hundreds of thousands of immigrants with that status who have committed no crimes at all. So the guy wasn't actually "illegal". He had legal status. This wasn't even part of the border crisis that the US has to deal with.

In fact, that population poses far less criminal threat to the public than the population of people born inside of the United States. Joe Biden actually explained the reason why in the SOTU, while he was being heckled by Marjorie Taylor Greene over this. Recent immigrants tend to be less prone to criminal behavior, because they don't want to be deported. The vast majority come here to work, improve their lives, and stay out of trouble, just like the millions of immigrants who have been coming to the US since it started out as just a bunch of European colonies. They pay taxes like everyone else and contribute enormously to the growth of wealth in our economy.

See:

Venezuelan Immigrants in the United States​

 
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Karla Jacinto is a woman mentioned by Senator Britt in her highly criticized Republican response to the SOTU. Britt did not say, but left the impression, that she was an immigrant who had been portrayed as a victim of sex trafficking by Mexican drug cartels. (Actually, it wasn't sex trafficking by drug cartels.) Since then, it has come out that this happened in Mexico, not the US, during the GW Bush administration. So Jacinto's victimization was not Joe Biden's fault, but her victimhood was used as a convenient story to bash Joe Biden with. It turns out that Mexican politicians had also exploited her victimhood in the past, so this was a well-worn story that somehow got showcased in Britt's political attack on Joe Biden.

Now Jacinto has come out to condemn her posttraumatic victimhood by politicians like the Britt, who actually care nothing about her:

Sex trafficking victim says Sen. Katie Britt telling her story during SOTU rebuttal is ‘not fair’​

 
TSwizzle said:
Politesse said:
If the bureaucratic state kept perfect tabs on every single citizen and non-citizen in the country, murders would still happen every day, and it would be no consolation at all to the bereaved that their loved ones were murdered by citizens.
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But this particular murder would have been prevented.
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Where is this tenacity regarding "assault weapons" and mass shootings? Pre-Pandemic, TSwizzle supported regulations on firearms. These days, The Daily Mail seems to have his ear and we need to stop each and every single violent act perpetrated by a person in the US illegally.
 
TSwizzle said:
Copernicus said:
TSwizzle said:
But this particular murder would have been prevented.
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That's true of pretty much all murders.
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It is certainly true in this particular case. It doesn't matter where Jose Ibarra came from or who is in the Whitehouse, Ibarra could have and should have been booted out of the USA.
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So should insurrectionists like Trump.
And Hawley.
And MTG.

The list of people who should get booted out of this country for breaking the law is quite long.
Tom
 
TSwizzle said:
Copernicus said:
TSwizzle said:
But this particular murder would have been prevented.
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That's true of pretty much all murders.
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It is certainly true in this particular case. It doesn't matter where Jose Ibarra came from or who is in the Whitehouse, Ibarra could have and should have been booted out of the USA.
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You are like a dog gnawing on a bone with this particular case. Every murder case is some kind of particular case. What makes this one unique is that it can be tenuously connected to an action that Mayorkas took regarding Venezuelan immigrants. That's its sole value to you. Nobody thinks of the murderer as a model immigrant. The vast majority of immigrants commit fewer crimes than the vast majority of non-immigrants. No Republican administration is going to kick all the other immigrants out because of this particular case, but it can be used as a propaganda tool. That's all its worth.
 
Even if you don't like a law, even you think the law in question is an absurdity, if someone breaks that law they are by definition law breakers.

Sometimes it is bad to break a law, sometimes it is good to break a law, but in either case it is breaking a law.
 
I’m sure any minute now the Republicans in Congress will pass a bill strengthening border security to help avoid this kind of tragedy going forward, since it is clearly such a great concern to them and their constituency.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Even if you don't like a law, even you think the law in question is an absurdity, if someone breaks that law they are by definition law breakers.

Sometimes it is bad to break a law, sometimes it is good to break a law, but in either case it is breaking a law.
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Wow! Stunning revelations! :oops:
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Sometimes it is bad to break a law, sometimes it is good to break a law, but in either case it is breaking a law.
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“It was good to break that law” can be a working, and even a valid defense.

It can also be great cover for a career criminal who claims to be a job creator and is actually a serial fraudster. Even if the criminal is an adjudicated rapist with 9 figure fraud judgments against them, they can tell people they’re Jesus and tens of millions will Beliiieeeve! … and the criminal gets to walk around scot free.
 
TSwizzle said:
Laken Riley is dead because her killer, Jose Ibarra was in the USA illegally. Had he been kicked out of the USA, she would be alive today.
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You are assuming, ahead of events, that he was a murderer. If anyone had a clue, he would have been stopped anywhere, not just the border..
You are committing a questionable-cause logical fallacy.

Correlation does not imply causation​

A shameful mistake for a professed atheist.
 
TSwizzle said:
Laken Riley is dead because her killer, Jose Ibarra was in the USA illegally. Had he been kicked out of the USA, she would be alive today.
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We can say the same for pro choice.
If Jose Ibarra's mother had an abortion, Laken Riley would be alive today.
What other causation statements can we make?
 
This entire line of argument from MAGAtards is utterly baffling. "It's not the murder that's the issue, it's the lack of proper paperwork from migrants!"
 
Copernicus said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Even if you don't like a law, even you think the law in question is an absurdity, if someone breaks that law they are by definition law breakers.

Sometimes it is bad to break a law, sometimes it is good to break a law, but in either case it is breaking a law.
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Wow! Stunning revelations! :oops:
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There seems to be an intense debate over whether illegal aliens or undocumented immigrants or whatever the current term is are law breakers or not. Whatever your opinion of the law itself, they are by definition law breakers.
 
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