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unapologetic

unapologetic

50+ years without a god
Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
195
Location
Penna. USA
Basic Beliefs
antitheist
I'd like to explore the ethics of asking for payment for giving someone something of value, when they didn't ask for it .
I'm gonna withhold my opinion for now, so I don't influence your comments.
 
unapologetic said:
I'd like to explore the ethics of asking for payment for giving someone something of value, when they didn't ask for it .
I'm gonna withhold my opinion for now, so I don't influence your comments.
Click to expand...
The clue is in the name. "Giving" implies the absence of any expectation of reciprocation or payment.

If you want to be paid for something, you need to be "selling" it. And selling is a contractual affair; Both parties must agree to the exchange, with a full understanding of the entire extent of the expected payment(s), and of the exact goods or services that will be recieved in exchange.

If somebody gives you something without making it clear that payment is expected, then they have zero right to be paid (or otherwise rewarded) for their generous gift.

If I give you an M&M, and then the next day demand a million dollars in payment, you don't have to pay.

Equally, if I give you a Ferrari, and the next day demand a dollar in payment, you don't have to pay.

Although if I gave you a Ferrari, and the next day asked you for a dollar in a completely un-connected and separate transaction, most people would think less of you if you denied my request.
 
A contract is an agreement between two people to exchange something of value for a consideration. At the time of the contract, both parties agree the object of exchange and the consideration to be equal. An unrequested gift is not a contract and not any kind of agreement.
 
unapologetic said:
I'd like to explore the ethics of asking for payment for giving someone something of value, when they didn't ask for it .
I'm gonna withhold my opinion for now, so I don't influence your comments.
Click to expand...
Why are you withholding your opinion?
This sure sounds like a personal anecdote you want to discuss.
Tom
 
You haven't given us enough detail to figure out a reasonable response. For instance, the product or service that you were "given without asking" - did you accept the gift? Use it? Did you ask first, whether it was intended as a gift or a good? If someone runs a squeegee across my window while I'm sitting at an intersection, I don't owe them a dime, because I took no action that could be construed as agreeing to pay for the service. But if a friend "gifts" me with a vacation to the their cabin in the Poconos and I accept it, I shouldn't be surprised when they ask me for a return favor later. I accepted the implicit bribe even if no one ever said it out loud, and idiocy is no defense if I legitimately didn't realize a gift that large comes with entailments.
 
unapologetic said:
TomC said:
Why are you withholding your opinion?
This sure sounds like a personal anecdote you want to discuss.
Click to expand...
I will shortly. But as I said, I don't want to influence your response.
Politesse said:
Is that not how all lives begin?
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Perhaps. So pay me. (how do you respond?)
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Politesse has done an excellent job of explaining why your question is so broad and poorly defined it's unanswerable.

Here's an true story related to Politesse' point.
I was adopted at birth and raised by two excellent parents. I owed them a huge amount. But they didn't "give me life", that was a couple of dumbasses in college in 1958.
Biomom I sorta owe a tiny bit, I suppose. She could have just had me killed, even though it was illegal back then. Sperm donor is a first class schmuck to be charitable about it.

But do I really owe either of them anything, given that the life they gave me(without my asking) turned out well in spite of their behavior?
I don't think so myself.
Tom
 
TomC said:

But do I really owe either of them anything, given that the life they gave me(without my asking) turned out well in spite of their behavior?
I don't think so myself.
Tom
Click to expand...

No Tom, you don’t owe them, and they probably owe you for throwing you to the lottery of adoption instead of cultivating your true potential themselves.
Had they stuck with you and devoted their all to the task of seeing you well brought up, educated and able to fulfill every opportunity, just imagine! You could be the benevolent leader of the entire planet by now! (Or not, but that’s not an important consideration)

At least you still had genes to guarantee you could survive past middle age, given adequate nutrition. We codgers should acknowledge that stuff, but no credit to the P’s who didn’t have to pay for it either.
 
Thanks for your views folks
Politesse said:
You haven't given us enough detail to figure out a reasonable response.
Click to expand...
That is on purpose. I am not looking for advise. I am not currently in that position. It's a hypothetical. As I said, I am just exploring the ethics.
TomC said:
it's unanswerable.
Click to expand...
Yet you did manage to give me a useful opinion.
Politesse said:
I shouldn't be surprised when they ask me for a return favor later.
Click to expand...
Do you feel obligated to give them the favor they ask for? If you didn't ask for what they gave you.
Politesse said:
Is that not how all lives begin?
Click to expand...
This is close to the mark. And your response WAS reasonable.
I was thinking about an argument, as a rebellious teen, with my old man.
I vaguely remember, 60 years ago, thinking to myself "I didn't ask to be born. I don't owe you shit for that".
I don't remember if I said it out loud or not. Nor how the conversation started. I'm now thinking that might be when my atheism started. I don't owe god shit either.
This also applies to when a xian blesses me for sneezing. They think they are doing me a favor, and expect a "thank you". But I don't feel any gratitude.
Does knowing this change your responses?
 
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