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Why you should vote for Trump

As an outsider I still cannot understand how Trump managed to take over the GOP.
So, I could swear you were one of the religious members here? Or is my mind slipping on that? Lions and Tigers and oh my and all that?
Yes a lot of these fora inhabitants assume that 'religious' persons would vote for Trump without bothering to find out if that be true.
If one religious person likes Trump therefore all religious persons do. Saves effort I guess.

Though since Lion, Tigers are from Oz (Learner too I think) that might say something if you could bothered using your obsolete grey matter.
 
As an outsider I still cannot understand how Trump managed to take over the GOP.
So, I could swear you were one of the religious members here? Or is my mind slipping on that? Lions and Tigers and oh my and all that?
Yes a lot of these fora inhabitants assume that 'religious' persons would vote for Trump without bothering to find out if that be true.
If one religious person likes Trump therefore all religious persons do. Saves effort I guess.

Though since Lion, Tigers are from Oz (Learner too I think) that might say something if you could bothered using your obsolete grey matter.
No, that's not the point, and I'm sad that's the thing you assume was meant.

More, I was discussing how you "fail" to understand the phenomena when your own religion directly addresses it. It's pretty explicable: a lot of people get into religion to hide from those who would discover how awful they are and use it so readily as camouflage that before long the upper echelons of religion are more camouflaged predators than actual people aspiring to goodness, and this is so common as a cycle that it was documented over a thousand years ago.
 
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Some of the posts disparage Trump voters, especially rural whites. I do this much too often myself. And, as if in answer to this fault, the article "What Liberals Get Wrong About ‘White Rural Rage’ — Almost Everything' appeared in my news-feed.

Taken as a whole, rural voters are not merely reacting against change — be it demographic or economic. They are actively seeking to preserve a sense of agency over their future and a continuity of their community’s values and social structures. Some might call this conservatism, but I think it is the same thing motivating fears of gentrification in urban areas, or the desire to “keep Portland weird.” Place matters for a whole bunch of people — but especially for rural folks.

Consider the fact, as I discuss in my book, that rural Americans are the most likely to say that if given the chance, they would never want to leave their community, while at the same time they are the most likely to say that children growing up in their specific community will have to leave in order to live productive lives. Could any single policy solve that dilemma?

Instead of a politics that seeks to understand and represent these contradictions, the left wants to simplify ruralness into something it’s not. In the immediate aftermath of 2016, blaming rural people was a way to make sense of the surprise of Trump’s election. This latest obsession with rage is the next chapter, a kind of collective cry of frustration from tired progressives: “We give up!” There is a general tendency among the readers of the New York Times and viewers of MSNBC to think about politics in purely transactional terms: We give you these benefits, you give us your votes. And rural voters, as Waldman is right to note, aren’t living up to that supposed bargain.

But this flies in the face of what research on resentment actually tells us. For many rural residents, the solutions they seek may not always come neatly packaged as government policies, white papers or policy briefs pumped out of a campaign war room. I’ve found that resentments exist because self-reliance and local problem-solving is intrinsic to rural identity, and self-reliance is something by nature resistant to government policies emanating from Washington, D.C.

One of the favorite pastimes of progressives is to brag about Inclusiveness. Perhaps the perspective of rural Americans should be included too.
 
"Rural identity" is like pacifism. There isn't any pacifism, only people who call themselves pacifists.
 
"Rural identity" is like pacifism. There isn't any pacifism, only people who call themselves pacifists.
The real defenders of "rural identity" aren't actually interested in politics IME. Historically most of their ill have come from government, and when someone comes along promising to tear it all down, the sheer simplicity of that message suffices to garner their support and let them (try to) forget about it (politics).
When they're told that their lives improved six ways from Sunday when the Destroyer was in charge, and their lives are total shit now that The Destroyer is not in charge, it makes perfect sense. Grazing fees have gone up, the price of feed is through the roof. The economy and the government (the same thing FAPP as far as they're concerned) are to blame for that, and FDA regs just compound their problems. They don't give a fuck who is a "good guy" and who is not - they're ALL scalliwags in the rural conservative mind, so they'll vote for the one promising to go after the people and things that are perceived to impair their prosperity. The weather during calving season is far more important than which scalliwag in in charge, or whether the corrupt government is called socialist, fascist, democratic or whatever - it's all just words, and they don't have ANY inclination to pay attention to the finer points; they have IMPORTANT stuff to worry about..
The ones I know who are like that, don't call themselves "rural voters", they're just "people", like everyone else they know; the feed dealer, the equipment repair people, the other ranchers, the mobile vet, the summer help - they're all of a feather.
By the time Trump bleeds them all dry, they won't know what hit them. :cry:

They're not bad people, they're not stupid. But they live in a carefully developed information desert, run by the Right Wing Misinformation Conglomerate which includes the Russian, Chinese, NK, Indonesian and other governments, along with the very Party of their fathers and grandfathers. We are in DEEP trouble.
 
They're not bad people, they're not stupid. But they live in a carefully developed information desert,
I'm not lumping them all together, just stating that "rural identity" is a myth. Some very good friends just purchased a couple hundred acres on which they plan to build and live, and they've been city dwellers with high paying jobs their entire lives. Their behavior is what they can afford and they can afford to live "in the country" while being sustained from jobs "in the city." My last place of employment had a lot of people that lived rural and worked urban. I always thought it odd that they prefer to speak and vote against their own self interests. I guess what they want is those city jobs to come into their preferred rural environs. Not sure what to make of that thought process but it sure seems like they haven't thought things through. I would be inclined to conclude that both norms are obviously good and stop the demonizing.
 
The article claims that from the perspective of rural America, Democratic “solutions” have yet to solve the health-care crisis … note the scare quotes around “solutions.” But earlier in the same article, we are told that after DEMOCRATS (please note) passed Obamacare, rural residents stood to gain the most in states that expanded Medicaid, but two-thirds of rural residents missed out because they lived in states run by REPUBLICAN governors that refused to do so! Oh, OK. So now what? And what is the Republican “solution” to health care? Repeal Obamacare! They have no other solution except to make the lives of low-income people including rural people who were fortunate enough to get Obamacare EVEN WORSE. This is one example of how empty this article is. It further says that racial resentment is a great predictor of support for Trump, but reminds us that this same racial resentment predicts support for Trump in urban areas. Yes, of course it does! Bingo! That’s the point! The racial resentment is OFFSET in the urban areas because they have much larger populations that are MULTICULTURAL, which is precisely what is mostly missing in rural areas. Seen in this light, it’s plain: white rural southern support for Trump is driven by RACIAL RESENTMENT, that even overrides stuff that could benefit them, lke Obamacare. All this other stuff about how we ought to seek to undertstand and empathize with them is drivel.
 
What absolutely IS happening in rural America—including in very blue states—is that rural areas are losing access to needed medical care as health care systems consolidate. This, btw, includes labor and delivery.

It is not hard to understand why people in such areas are angry abd frankly frightened abd willing to blame anyone and everyone.
 
What absolutely IS happening in rural America—including in very blue states—is that rural areas are losing access to needed medical care as health care systems consolidate. This, btw, includes labor and delivery.

It is not hard to understand why people in such areas are angry abd frankly frightened abd willing to blame anyone and everyone.
QFT
Yesterday marked FOUR MONTHS that Mrs E has been trying to get treatment for her compression fracture. They finally did some full imaging day before yesterday. It will now take days or weeks to work its way from the CT tech to the radiologist to the pain management specialist to the actual surgeon who needs the images so he can then schedule the vertabroplasty her primary doc knew she needed three months ago. I’m at wits’ end with this. A hundred million dollar facility and nobody to staff it. Local EMS does more than a run per day to the front range (4-7 hrs round trip) on average so even THEY are very often short staffed.
 
So put in place a national health care plan. Who opposes this? Republicans! Who supports it? Traditionally Democrats, of whom both Harry Truman and Bill Clinton tried without success to pass such a program. Obama took half a loaf to push through Obamacare, but as noted above, it is repudiated by Republican governors of states where low-income rural people stand the most to gain from it. Hell, even Richard Nixon tried to get through, without success, a national health care policy.
 
And what promotes consolidation of health care systems and consolidations of other businesses that drive out small business? Republican economic polices! Or, more generally, neoliberalism, of which both Republicans and Democrats have been guilty, but at least Biden is trying to push back a little to the New Deal tradition. The linked article talks about how much rural people want to keep alive their local life ways, their self-reliance, their traditions, etc. — and who is threatening this the most? Republicans, the people they vote for!
 
who is threatening this the most?
The germane question is “Who are they being told to blame?” because that’s who they blame. They literally don’t have the time or the interest to even try to figure it out.
 
The article claims that from the perspective of rural America, Democratic “solutions” have yet to solve the health-care crisis … note the scare quotes around “solutions.” But earlier in the same article, we are told that after DEMOCRATS (please note) passed Obamacare, rural residents stood to gain the most in states that expanded Medicaid, but two-thirds of rural residents missed out because they lived in states run by REPUBLICAN governors that refused to do so! Oh, OK. So now what? And what is the Republican “solution” to health care? Repeal Obamacare! They have no other solution
Actually they have a solution. It's the solution Elixir just expounded. Their solution is to continue to make pie in the sky health care promises but never deliver while assigning blame to those damn urban liberals who have welfare queens and all those illegal immigrants to support. Fools and money ... fools and money. Is there a solution? Maybe the solution is to adopt the republican tactic, tell lots of tall tales and hope for a few votes.
 
So put in place a national health care plan. Who opposes this? Republicans! Who supports it? Traditionally Democrats, of whom both Harry Truman and Bill Clinton tried without success to pass such a program. Obama took half a loaf to push through Obamacare, but as noted above, it is repudiated by Republican governors of states where low-income rural people stand the most to gain from it. Hell, even Richard Nixon tried to get through, without success, a national health care policy.
But would this stop consolidation of rural hospitals or would it increase consolidation as there is more and more pressure to keep costs down? I honestly don’t know. But I am very concerned about conservatives gaining access to control of any medical care.
 
So put in place a national health care plan. Who opposes this? Republicans! Who supports it? Traditionally Democrats, of whom both Harry Truman and Bill Clinton tried without success to pass such a program. Obama took half a loaf to push through Obamacare, but as noted above, it is repudiated by Republican governors of states where low-income rural people stand the most to gain from it. Hell, even Richard Nixon tried to get through, without success, a national health care policy.
But would this stop consolidation of rural hospitals or would it increase consolidation as there is more and more pressure to keep costs down? I honestly don’t know. But I am very concerned about conservatives gaining access to control of any medical care.
I would certainly trust a liberal government more likely to address such a problem than I would trust a conservative one, at least based on how American government has operated since FDR.
 
So put in place a national health care plan. Who opposes this? Republicans! Who supports it? Traditionally Democrats, of whom both Harry Truman and Bill Clinton tried without success to pass such a program. Obama took half a loaf to push through Obamacare, but as noted above, it is repudiated by Republican governors of states where low-income rural people stand the most to gain from it. Hell, even Richard Nixon tried to get through, without success, a national health care policy.
But would this stop consolidation of rural hospitals or would it increase consolidation as there is more and more pressure to keep costs down? I honestly don’t know. But I am very concerned about conservatives gaining access to control of any medical care.
I would certainly trust a liberal government more likely to address such a problem than I would trust a conservative one, at least based on how American government has operated since FDR.
Me, too.
 
What absolutely IS happening in rural America—including in very blue states—is that rural areas are losing access to needed medical care as health care systems consolidate. This, btw, includes labor and delivery.

It is not hard to understand why people in such areas are angry abd frankly frightened abd willing to blame anyone and everyone.
QFT
Yesterday marked FOUR MONTHS that Mrs E has been trying to get treatment for her compression fracture. They finally did some full imaging day before yesterday. It will now take days or weeks to work its way from the CT tech to the radiologist to the pain management specialist to the actual surgeon who needs the images so he can then schedule the vertabroplasty her primary doc knew she needed three months ago. I’m at wits’ end with this. A hundred million dollar facility and nobody to staff it. Local EMS does more than a run per day to the front range (4-7 hrs round trip) on average so even THEY are very often short staffed.
I'm not surprised. It's a way insurance companies have found to cut costs--inadequate provider networks. They need legislation with some real teeth, but that's not going to happen because it would bite the government (Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare) even more than it would bite the insurance companies. Same as that measure against surprise bills excluded ambulances because an awful lot of ambulances are government operated.
 
What absolutely IS happening in rural America—including in very blue states—is that rural areas are losing access to needed medical care as health care systems consolidate. This, btw, includes labor and delivery.

It is not hard to understand why people in such areas are angry abd frankly frightened abd willing to blame anyone and everyone.
QFT
Yesterday marked FOUR MONTHS that Mrs E has been trying to get treatment for her compression fracture. They finally did some full imaging day before yesterday. It will now take days or weeks to work its way from the CT tech to the radiologist to the pain management specialist to the actual surgeon who needs the images so he can then schedule the vertabroplasty her primary doc knew she needed three months ago. I’m at wits’ end with this. A hundred million dollar facility and nobody to staff it. Local EMS does more than a run per day to the front range (4-7 hrs round trip) on average so even THEY are very often short staffed.
I'm not surprised. It's a way insurance companies have found to cut costs--inadequate provider networks. They need legislation with some real teeth, but that's not going to happen because it would bite the government (Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare) even more than it would bite the insurance companies. Same as that measure against surprise bills excluded ambulances because an awful lot of ambulances are government operated.
Yes, all that. At this point I'd pay more for better care if that was an option, but not everyone can or would . Seems like the bottom line is the bottom line. That's for the Companies, the government, but most of all, for the consumer.
 
What absolutely IS happening in rural America—including in very blue states—is that rural areas are losing access to needed medical care as health care systems consolidate. This, btw, includes labor and delivery.

It is not hard to understand why people in such areas are angry abd frankly frightened abd willing to blame anyone and everyone.
QFT
Yesterday marked FOUR MONTHS that Mrs E has been trying to get treatment for her compression fracture. They finally did some full imaging day before yesterday. It will now take days or weeks to work its way from the CT tech to the radiologist to the pain management specialist to the actual surgeon who needs the images so he can then schedule the vertabroplasty her primary doc knew she needed three months ago. I’m at wits’ end with this. A hundred million dollar facility and nobody to staff it. Local EMS does more than a run per day to the front range (4-7 hrs round trip) on average so even THEY are very often short staffed.
I'm not surprised. It's a way insurance companies have found to cut costs--inadequate provider networks. They need legislation with some real teeth, but that's not going to happen because it would bite the government (Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare) even more than it would bite the insurance companies. Same as that measure against surprise bills excluded ambulances because an awful lot of ambulances are government operated.
Unless it were rolled into a single system.

There is ZERO reason that Patient A with Insurance X should pay a different amount for the same service/procedure than Patient B with Insurance Y should pay. Or why I have to jump through hoops I don't actually need to jump through in order to have Z procedure that is not done in network.
 
If American rural dwellers don't want to be perceived as villains, it's quite simple, stop acting like villains and stop supporting villainous politicians. However, many rural dwellers have a big problem - they have been subjected to psychological conditioning and propaganda, and are too mentally lazy to analyze it and their beliefs rationally. Analyses trying to justify their attitudes are useless unless they propose a realistic solution.
 
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