• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

Toni said:
laughing dog said:
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.
Click to expand...
In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.
Click to expand...
Yes, but there certainly are plenty of people who call for both the destruction of Israel and the destruction of all Jews, not merely the toppling of Bibi.
Click to expand...
There are.

That's why it's important to make distinctions and not allow some folks to blur the lines whenever it suits their arguments.

The are racist religious bigots who want Jews to die, and it appears the crackdown on the peaceful student protests at Columbia has attracted some of them to the campus gates.

Jews for Peace are not anti-Semitic, and people calling for a ceasefire in Gaza followed by a genuine, equitable, enforceable peace treaty between the Israelis and the Palestinians aren't saying Israel should surrender.

Conflating everyone who has ever criticized a policy Netanyahu or his political mentors have supported with Nazis is absurd, but some folks appear to genuinely think there are only two options: pro-Zionist or anti-Semitic.
 
Last edited:
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. Israel has significant differences from every other country in the world. Any standards by which it is judged should at the very least acknowledge them.

When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. There are some people with firm pacifist views who do not condone violence in any form, not even in self defense. And there are some who allow for self defense but not terrorism or the wholesale destruction of a community full of civilians, most of whom are children.

When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite, or perhaps pro-Semitic if you think Semitic people in general will be safer without a religious ethno-state, Jewish or Muslim or Christian or whatever, fueling the fighting that is killing them.

When you think Israel should become a multi-ethnic secular state, you might not be an anti-Semite but you're almost guaranteed to be called one.
 
These pro-Hamas protestors are beyond the pale.



Columbia is doing way too little.
 
Did that happen on campus?

Because if not, then it's a matter for the New York City police to handle, not the university. And it's only a matter for the police to supervise unless laws are being broken.
 
Arctish said:
Did that happen on campus?

Because if not, then it's a matter for the New York City police to handle, not the university. And it's only a matter for the police to supervise unless laws are being broken.
Click to expand...
Not on campus but right next to it (at the 116th street subway station entrance), on the public sidewalk.
 


From the related article:
Three students from Barnard College, Columbia University's sister school, spoke to reporters today in support of pro-Palestinian protesters, saying their own stories of being Jewish anti-Zionists are being ignored.

One Iranian Jewish student, Lea, has been suspended and noted that she and fellow students "proudly put everything we have on the line, because our vision is unclouded." She said she saw the same trauma and pain of her own family reflected in the plight of Palestinians, moving her to join the protest.

"More than 15 Jewish students were arrested, suspended and evicted as punishment for protesting on their own campus," said Lea, a student who identified by first name only. "For singing songs of love and liberation for Columbia's divestment and a free Palestine."
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Arctish said:
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. Israel has significant differences from every other country in the world. Any standards by which it is judged should at the very least acknowledge them.

When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. There are some people with firm pacifist views who do not condone violence in any form, not even in self defense. And there are some who allow for self defense but not terrorism or the wholesale destruction of a community full of civilians, most of whom are children.

When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite, or perhaps pro-Semitic if you think Semitic people in general will be safer without a religious ethno-state, Jewish or Muslim or Christian or whatever, fueling the fighting that is killing them.

When you think Israel should become a multi-ethnic secular state, you might not be an anti-Semite but you're almost guaranteed to be called one.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. However, do you understand why Israelis don't want Hamas or Gazans into their country as citizens? You don't have to agree with it, but do you understand their emotion here? Second question, do you think that the average American citizen would be okay with admitting Gazians into America?
 
Derec said:
These pro-Hamas protestors are beyond the pale.



Columbia is doing way too little.
Click to expand...

For protests occurring near the 1/9 subway station?

If they are harassing students for Columbia there then the police need to be involved.
 
Harry Bosch said:
Fair enough. However, do you understand why Israelis don't want Hamas or Gazans into their country as citizens? You don't have to agree with it, but do you understand their emotion here? Second question, do you think that the average American citizen would be okay with admitting Gazians into America?
Click to expand...
Anybody with any familiarity of the history would understand why Israeli folks won't allow that anytime in the foreseeable future.

And while I realize that a bunch of Americans have dumped fundamental American values (preferring to melt down the Statue of Liberty and make Wall sections out of it) I would be fine with a bunch of Gazans moving here. Easily a million Gazans could pass a minimal bit of vetting to avoid the most violent miscreants. I don't know about everywhere, but there's already a substantial Muslim population stretching from Chicago to suburban Detroit.

But I would honestly think that most would prefer Muslim majority Egypt or Jordan. For some reason, those governments won't allow that.
Tom
 
TomC said:
Harry Bosch said:
Fair enough. However, do you understand why Israelis don't want Hamas or Gazans into their country as citizens? You don't have to agree with it, but do you understand their emotion here? Second question, do you think that the average American citizen would be okay with admitting Gazians into America?
Click to expand...
Anybody with any familiarity of the history would understand why Israeli folks won't allow that anytime in the foreseeable future.

And while I realize that a bunch of Americans have dumped fundamental American values (preferring to melt down the Statue of Liberty and make Wall sections out of it) I would be fine with a bunch of Gazans moving here. Easily a million Gazans could pass a minimal bit of vetting to avoid the most violent miscreants. I don't know about everywhere, but there's already a substantial Muslim population stretching from Chicago to suburban Detroit.

But I would honestly think that most would prefer Muslim majority Egypt or Jordan. For some reason, those governments won't allow that.
Tom
Click to expand...
I'd be absolutely fine with admitting Gazians without any connections to Hamas or any terrorist group if that helped defuse the area. However, you and I are in the minority. The vast majority of Americans are against immigration. Securing the southern border is the number one issue in American politics. And yet, there was no vile terrorist attack from the south into America. We haven't been at war with Mexico. There aren't missiles being launched in Texas. We are in the minority. Most people in the world are against legal peaceful immigration. Let alone forced immigration from people who hate the country.
 
I have looked into this quite a bit now. Here is what I found so far.

  • This is a public sidewalk.
  • The people in the video are outside Columbia. They appear to be at a Broadway subway stairs outside Columbia gates, 116th street intersection.
  • Statements made by Columbia student organization said they do not support extremist statements coming from the outside.


  • The people in the video have a militant liberation ideology consistent with some radical groups in NYC, but not consistent with the statements made by the student organization at Columbia.
  • After the arrest of Columbia students, a number of radical NYC political groups communicated to members to descend upon Columbia to "show support." The communications from outside groups to their members to go to the areas outside Columbia continued for quite a few days including now and the day of this video.
  • The drum in the video is consistent with a drum belonging to one radical militant liberation group I had found, but there are probably quite a bit more radical groups in NYC.
  • The yellow signs are consistent with one radical militant liberation group I found, but there are probably more such groups. I did not observe these signs in videos and photos of the student organization inside Columbia.
  • The mayor of NYC has said that there were "outside agitators" causing problems, which presumably means these types of incidents. I don't think the mayor is talking out of his ass because the statement was made after arrests were done, meaning the police force had an opportunity to identify all the people arrested and check if any had come from the outside to make their way in as well as identify particular individuals causing problems as much as possible anyway.
  • The mayor isn't the only person who has said that there are outside agitators. Most recently the university president herself has stated that protests within the university grounds have been peaceful. This is coming from the same person who asked the protestors to be arrested.

For an example of an outside agitator, a very radical militant liberation group, see the following video:


At this point, I do not find it interesting any longer that Derec is ready to get the police to go after Columbia students for something that other people said, but meanwhile, demands everyone else call clearly guilty people like Chauvin merely "suspects." Or for that matter, most recently declaring the person who attacked the Jewish lady in the Detroit area had to be Muslim. It isn't interesting, but it ought to be pointed out.

So what happened here was predictable.

See post#39:
That said, the move to arrest students has backfired and been met with escalation both from within and from outside Columbia. There are now pro-Palestinian groups outside Columbia protesting at the gates and more students have set up more tents and more protests from within the gates.

This actually NOW is way more of a disruption than it ever was and the bigger crowds will of course contain a wider distribution of ideas, including a few people who could be very much extremist. There's even more attention now on what is going on which will draw in crazy people like the guy who self-immolated in front of the court building where Trump is on trial. So any fears someone could have had before about feeling intimidated are now multiplied because there are many outsiders with unknown ideologies possibly seeking attention.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Harry Bosch said:
Arctish said:
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. Israel has significant differences from every other country in the world. Any standards by which it is judged should at the very least acknowledge them.

When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. There are some people with firm pacifist views who do not condone violence in any form, not even in self defense. And there are some who allow for self defense but not terrorism or the wholesale destruction of a community full of civilians, most of whom are children.

When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite, or perhaps pro-Semitic if you think Semitic people in general will be safer without a religious ethno-state, Jewish or Muslim or Christian or whatever, fueling the fighting that is killing them.

When you think Israel should become a multi-ethnic secular state, you might not be an anti-Semite but you're almost guaranteed to be called one.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. However, do you understand why Israelis don't want Hamas or Gazans into their country as citizens?
Click to expand...
Based on the recent elections of the past 10 years, to say "Israel wants..." or "Israel doesn't want..." could be a bit of a stretch as the Knesset is highly fractured. Likud has 32 of the 120 seats and their coalition stretches to 6 other groups, and then that barely gets them above 61 for a majority.
Harry Bosch said:
You don't have to agree with it, but do you understand their emotion here? Second question, do you think that the average American citizen would be okay with admitting Gazians into America?
Click to expand...
The average American has been against immigration since the Colonies became America.
 
Starting to hear about tense inter-student incidents on my own campus, no doubt spillover from the escalating situations elsewhere. I'm unspeakably grateful that the semester is about to end anyway, before any of it can find its way into my classroom.
 
House Speaker Mike Johnson shows up at Columbia to pour some fuel on the fire.

article said:
“We need to revoke federal funding to these universities that they cannot keep control. We need to revoke these student visas for these violent protesters. You don’t have a right to be here and to do this, but Jewish students have a right to be able to peacefully attend classes. They’re trying to get an education and this is just madness,” Johnson said.

“We’re going to call on educational institutions like Columbia, if you cannot control what is happening at your university, if the president at this university is failing to keep students safe, then she shouldn’t be eligible for any federal aid coming into this university,” Rep. Anthony D’Esposito (R-N.Y.) said after touring the campus with fellow GOP freshman Rep. Michael Lawler (N.Y.) on Monday. Both will join Johnson on campus Wednesday, as well as Staten Island Rep. Nicole Malliotakis (R).

During a Monday news conference, Lawler stated that the hate for Jewish people is taught in Gaza, “and unfortunately we see it being taught in schools in America.”
Click to expand...
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
House Speaker Mike Johnson shows up at Columbia to pour some fuel on the fire.

article said:
“We need to revoke federal funding to these universities that they cannot keep control. We need to revoke these student visas for these violent protesters. You don’t have a right to be here and to do this, but Jewish students have a right to be able to peacefully attend classes. They’re trying to get an education and this is just madness,” Johnson said.

“We’re going to call on educational institutions like Columbia, if you cannot control what is happening at your university, if the president at this university is failing to keep students safe, then she shouldn’t be eligible for any federal aid coming into this university,” Rep. Anthony D’Esposito (R-N.Y.) said after touring the campus with fellow GOP freshman Rep. Michael Lawler (N.Y.) on Monday. Both will join Johnson on campus Wednesday, as well as Staten Island Rep. Nicole Malliotakis (R).

During a Monday news conference, Lawler stated that the hate for Jewish people is taught in Gaza, “and unfortunately we see it being taught in schools in
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
So the President of Columbia University calls the cops on protesters, has them arrested, suspends those who are students at Columbia and that is not enough for this goose-stepping jackasses.
 
Harry Bosch said:
Arctish said:
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.
Click to expand...
When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. Israel has significant differences from every other country in the world. Any standards by which it is judged should at the very least acknowledge them.

When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite, or you might not be. There are some people with firm pacifist views who do not condone violence in any form, not even in self defense. And there are some who allow for self defense but not terrorism or the wholesale destruction of a community full of civilians, most of whom are children.

When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite, or perhaps pro-Semitic if you think Semitic people in general will be safer without a religious ethno-state, Jewish or Muslim or Christian or whatever, fueling the fighting that is killing them.

When you think Israel should become a multi-ethnic secular state, you might not be an anti-Semite but you're almost guaranteed to be called one.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. However, do you understand why Israelis don't want Hamas or Gazans into their country as citizens? You don't have to agree with it, but do you understand their emotion here? Second question, do you think that the average American citizen would be okay with admitting Gazians into America?
Click to expand...
At first it was because Zionists were creating a Jewish State and wanted all of the non-Jews to stay out, especially the recently displaced refugees from Ashkelon and the surrounding area they had forced into Gaza.

Later it was because Israelis wanted to keep the land and resources that had been given to them by Israel's Zionist founders, and they didn't want to lend any support to the notion that non-Jews in Gaza might have a right to return to their former homes.

Then it was because the most extreme pro-settler faction gained the upper hand in Israeli politics following Rabin's assassination, and Zionist expansionism and the ethnic cleansing of Eretz Israel became openly stated goals.

Nowadays it's for the same reasons, using the Hamas boogeyman to frighten people susceptible to racist propaganda into refusing to allow children to find refuge from starvation and bombing in Israel. It's like when the racists and religious bigots refused to allow Jewish refugees trying to escape from the Nazis into the United States in the 1930s. We all know what 'those people' are like right from birth, they'll bite the hand that feeds them, amirite?

I would be perfectly fine with admitting Gazans into my own home. It wouldn't be the first time my family has helped people who need a bit of support when they move to Alaska, and it wouldn't be the first time we've had Muslims in the house.

As for the average American citizen, I think that might break along generational lines. Boomers like myself were fed a steady diet of pro-Zionist talking points for most of our lives and only some of us looked beyond the surface. But it appears that the younger generations have a broader approach to the topic. I think attitudes are changing. However, I think racism and religious bigotry will still be powerful influences on America's immigration policies. We have welcomed white Christians from Ukraine with open arms, brown Christians from Central American with stinginess, and Muslims from anywhere in the world with suspicion. Some of the more liberal communities would welcome Gazans while the more Trumpy ones won't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom