Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Yale

Yale police arrest 47 student protesters for trespassing on Beinecke Plaza

After Yale police made morning arrests on Beinecke Plaza, hundreds of protesters moved to blockade the intersection of Grove and College Streets until rush hour, moving then to Cross Campus. The News followed the day live.

yaledailynews.com

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Sorry, let me be clearer. Yes, absolutely one OUGHT to make a longer, logical statement. The particular non-student outside the college after the suspensions was being a bully and jerk. So he was interested in a sloganized phrase he could repeat at people. He was angry and engaging in hate. So I do not support his words or actions. Those words and actions are not the same either as the Columbia U organization and reason for their suspension.

The trouble is, we don't have a full picture on the happenings at Columbia or NYU, Yale. Colleges are starting to panic, it would seem. And their reaction could become counterproductive. The GOP in Congress certainly isn't helping. Nuance and context are critical in political science, but not politics.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Harvard

Protests ramped up following the arrests at Columbia:

Harvard Students Rally in Solidarity with Columbia Demonstrators Following Arrests | News | The Harvard Crimson

More than 200 Harvard affiliates rallied Friday afternoon to denounce Harvard’s ties to the war in Gaza and to show solidarity with students who were arrested at Columbia University during pro-Palestine demonstrations.

www.thecrimson.com

Over the weekend, Harvard suspended the pro-Palestine group (not the students, just the legitimacy and allowance of the org), threatened the students with expulsion, and then closed Harvard Yard:

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.

In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.

But you continue to ignore the fact that in this case they are one in the same--destruction of the government means destruction of the people.

You sit there and say that Israel shouldn't harm a single non-combatant in defending themselves and pretend everything is ok if they'll just look hard enough.

Let's say Israel was actually bound to the rules you ask for. What do they do when a whole bunch of Hamas strap on suicide vests and babies and come storming into Israel, one hand holding down the detonator, the other a gun. What is the proper Israeli response in your book?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Should have had two strong and stable ethnostates. One for the Arab Muslim Palestinians and one for the Jewish (religious or just part of the tribe) people. Then no one would be so worried about demographic overtaking and the loss of voting power and no need for second class citizenship. Also, no impetus to overbreed to maybe gain power either.

Oh well.

There's no way Islam can stand the insult of Israel's existence. This was never possible.

 

[laughing dog]

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.

In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.

But you continue to ignore the fact that in this case they are one in the same--destruction of the government means destruction of the people.

In a world without nuanced thinking, I'd agree. But I live in the real world where the destruction of a government does not mean the destruction of the people.

You sit there and say that Israel shouldn't harm a single non-combatant in defending themselves and pretend everything is ok if they'll just look hard enough.

I grow weary of your stupid straw men. Even wearier of irrelevant one.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.

In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.

But you continue to ignore the fact that in this case they are one in the same--destruction of the government means destruction of the people.

You sit there and say that Israel shouldn't harm a single non-combatant in defending themselves and pretend everything is ok if they'll just look hard enough.

Let's say Israel was actually bound to the rules you ask for. What do they do when a whole bunch of Hamas strap on suicide vests and babies and come storming into Israel, one hand holding down the detonator, the other a gun. What is the proper Israeli response in your book?

Kill the fucking bad guys. Is this that hard to understand? Months long siege on general public -> bad, killing bad guys -> good.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Claims of "severe" disruptions and "harassing" are semantic ambiguities likely really not much as applied to collectively 100 people arrested. Those are allegations and no student has been given due process ordinarily afforded to students according to school policy.

When you're caught in the act "due process" doesn't really mean much. Besides, it's the left that has been against due process in universities--so long as it's guys accused of sexual misdeeds.

That said, the move to arrest students has backfired and been met with escalation both from within and from outside Columbia. There are now pro-Palestinian groups outside Columbia protesting at the gates and more students have set up more tents and more protests from within the gates.

And it's the university's fault that the troublemakers want to make more trouble?

This actually NOW is way more of a disruption than it ever was and the bigger crowds will of course contain a wider distribution of ideas, including a few people who could be very much extremist. There's even more attention now on what is going on which will draw in crazy people like the guy who self-immolated in front of the court building where Trump is on trial. So any fears someone could have had before about feeling intimidated are now multiplied because there are many outsiders with unknown ideologies possibly seeking attention.

Well, duh, what do you expect when you side with religious nutcases?!

Now Columbia has decided to do virtual classes because of the escalation. See here.

“If I had my child at Columbia, I also would tell them to go home,” Hagar Chemali, an adjunct associate professor of International and Public Affairs at the university, told CNN Monday. “It’s not just because of the tension on campus, it’s also because those protests on campus have invited extremists outside.”

Organizers of the campus protest – Columbia University Apartheid Divest and Columbia Students for Justice in Palestine – said in a statement, “We have been peaceful,” and distanced themselves from non-student protestors who have gathered outside the campus, calling them “inflammatory individuals who do not represent us.”

“We firmly reject any form of hate or bigotry and stand vigilant against non-students attempting to disrupt the solidarity being forged among students – Palestinian, Muslim, Arab, Jewish, Black and pro-Palestinian classmates and colleagues who represent the full diversity of our country,” the activists’ statement continued.

Columbia student, Noah Lederman, told CNN he was “terrified, angry, upset, and horrified that the university failed to take action.” Lederman said he had been accosted in early February and had asked the university for remote learning options. “What’s happening on campus is blatantly antisemitic,” he added.

“Columbia students organizing in solidarity with Palestine – including Jewish students – have faced harassment, doxxing, and now arrest by the NYPD. These are the main threats to the safety of Jewish Columbia students,” Jonathan Ben-Menachem, a Ph.D. student, told CNN.

So they want the right to protest but no accountability for their speech?!

And arresting Palestinian protesters is supposed to be a threat to Jewish students?! That only make sense if the Palestinian protesters are animals, not people.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The University President is using hyperbole here. And quite needlessly so. Decorum and collegiate etiquette would have sufficed.

You think it is hyperbolic to call an environment with these kind of incidents threatening and intimidating to many students?

I'm unaware of anyone being threatened. If people are being threatened by the protestors on campus, that'd be absolutely unacceptable.

“I am horrified and disgusted with the antisemitism being spewed at and around the Columbia University campus — like the example of a young woman holding a sign with an arrow pointing to Jewish students stating ‘Al-Qasam’s Next Targets,’ or another where a woman is literally yelling ‘We are Hamas,’ or another where groups of students are chanting ‘We don’t want no Zionists here’

If those things actually occurred within the contexts alleged, while I'd say it wasn't a "threat", it would undoubtedly be against any proper free speech decorum and shouldn't be tolerated. I'd be not quick to judge certain things that could be ambiguous, though. Social media can be a bitch sometimes to know the truth.

I would consider "We are Hamas" to be a threat.

And there have been others:

On Sunday, those allegations gathered further steam after footage on social media appeared to show pro-Palestine activists outside the Columbia campus telling pro-Israel students to “go back to Poland”. One activist said that October 7 “will happen not one more time, not five more times, not 10 more times, not 100 more times, not 1,000 more times, but 10,000 times”...A chapter of an international Orthodox Jewish movement, Chabad at Columbia University, released a statement saying that protesters also told Jewish students, “You have no culture”, “All you do is colonise” and to “Go back to Europe”.

That is outside of the campus. I think it'd be abhorrent for anyone to say any such things. I find it hard to believe someone would say "go back to Europe" unless that is a better veiled slur than "go back to Poland".

Be a great time for the school to hold a Forum to manage the alleged bigotry. This is where a college is supposed to make its students put up or shut up.

No forum is going to resolve this because it's a matter of hate, not reason.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The due process concerns are different than deciding to end the encampment and then following through on that decision. After considering their options, the complaints from students and concerns for their safety, and the disruption to regular university function, administration decided it was time for the encampment to pack up. The students were given many warnings to pack up their encampment. The administration made several offers in an attempt to negotiate. After negotiations failed, they were told they would be arrested unless they left. They refused to comply and were therefore arrested. Now whether they should face further consequences is a completely different matter.

A perfect example of FAFO.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I suppose it is possible, if it is a counter to "Go back to Gaza" or "Go back to Palestine". It is "Poland" however, that seems like a particularly odd reference. It could be benign, but it could be abhorrent. This is kind of the problem with making stupid vague statements. You should be making a statement, not requiring the listening to figure out what you mean.

That's the point--plausible deniability.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.

In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.

But you continue to ignore the fact that in this case they are one in the same--destruction of the government means destruction of the people.

In a world without nuanced thinking, I'd agree. But I live in the real world where the destruction of a government does not mean the destruction of the people.

In the real world it's that government that stands between them and genocide.

You sit there and say that Israel shouldn't harm a single non-combatant in defending themselves and pretend everything is ok if they'll just look hard enough.

I grow weary of your stupid straw men. Even wearier of irrelevant one.

Your own position is a strawman? Because you slipped up a while back and admitted that the death of a single innocent child was unacceptable in self defense.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.

In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.

But you continue to ignore the fact that in this case they are one in the same--destruction of the government means destruction of the people.

You sit there and say that Israel shouldn't harm a single non-combatant in defending themselves and pretend everything is ok if they'll just look hard enough.

Let's say Israel was actually bound to the rules you ask for. What do they do when a whole bunch of Hamas strap on suicide vests and babies and come storming into Israel, one hand holding down the detonator, the other a gun. What is the proper Israeli response in your book?

Kill the fucking bad guys. Is this that hard to understand? Months long siege on general public -> bad, killing bad guys -> good.

You kill the bad guys, they let go of the detonator, the baby gets blown up.

You're giving a very simplistic answer that doesn't work. What do you say Israel should do about such an attack?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The University President is using hyperbole here. And quite needlessly so. Decorum and collegiate etiquette would have sufficed.

You think it is hyperbolic to call an environment with these kind of incidents threatening and intimidating to many students?

I'm unaware of anyone being threatened. If people are being threatened by the protestors on campus, that'd be absolutely unacceptable.

“I am horrified and disgusted with the antisemitism being spewed at and around the Columbia University campus — like the example of a young woman holding a sign with an arrow pointing to Jewish students stating ‘Al-Qasam’s Next Targets,’ or another where a woman is literally yelling ‘We are Hamas,’ or another where groups of students are chanting ‘We don’t want no Zionists here’

If those things actually occurred within the contexts alleged, while I'd say it wasn't a "threat", it would undoubtedly be against any proper free speech decorum and shouldn't be tolerated. I'd be not quick to judge certain things that could be ambiguous, though. Social media can be a bitch sometimes to know the truth.

I would consider "We are Hamas" to be a threat.

You consider a person holding a rock near an officer a threat. <- not an exaggeration

And there have been others:

On Sunday, those allegations gathered further steam after footage on social media appeared to show pro-Palestine activists outside the Columbia campus telling pro-Israel students to “go back to Poland”. One activist said that October 7 “will happen not one more time, not five more times, not 10 more times, not 100 more times, not 1,000 more times, but 10,000 times”...A chapter of an international Orthodox Jewish movement, Chabad at Columbia University, released a statement saying that protesters also told Jewish students, “You have no culture”, “All you do is colonise” and to “Go back to Europe”.

That is outside of the campus. I think it'd be abhorrent for anyone to say any such things. I find it hard to believe someone would say "go back to Europe" unless that is a better veiled slur than "go back to Poland".

Be a great time for the school to hold a Forum to manage the alleged bigotry. This is where a college is supposed to make its students put up or shut up.

No forum is going to resolve this because it's a matter of hate, not reason.

This is a school. A school should be a place for proving cases, not merely interjecting them. If their positions are so bankrupt, this will help demonstrate it. Not every damn thing that isn't Pro-Netanyahu is anti-Israeli.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.

In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.

But you continue to ignore the fact that in this case they are one in the same--destruction of the government means destruction of the people.

You sit there and say that Israel shouldn't harm a single non-combatant in defending themselves and pretend everything is ok if they'll just look hard enough.

Let's say Israel was actually bound to the rules you ask for. What do they do when a whole bunch of Hamas strap on suicide vests and babies and come storming into Israel, one hand holding down the detonator, the other a gun. What is the proper Israeli response in your book?

Kill the fucking bad guys. Is this that hard to understand? Months long siege on general public -> bad, killing bad guys -> good.

You kill the bad guys, they let go of the detonator, the baby gets blown up.

I was talking about real life. Fuck your ridiculous hypotheticals. Hypotheticals didn't slaughter a lot of Israelis on October 7th. Hypotheticals didn't bomb out countless homes and buildings in Gaza. Hypotheticals aren't funding the terrorists in Gaza. Netanyahu didn't hypothetically put forth alleged protections that you supported that didn't work in the long run.

 

[laughing dog]

In the real world it's that government that stands between them and genocide.

Stop with the genocide bs.

You sit there and say that Israel shouldn't harm a single non-combatant in defending themselves and pretend everything is ok if they'll just look hard enough.

I grow weary of your stupid straw men. Even wearier of irrelevant one.

Your own position is a strawman? Because you slipped up a while back and admitted that the death of a single innocent child was unacceptable in self defense.

While I understand you strongly believe in your delusions, that does not make them true. Please provide the post number (not some clipped quote) to substantiate your claim.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

University of Minnesota

University of Minnesota police arrest 9 at pro-Palestinian protest

Protests are happening at colleges across the country, including Columbia, Yale universities. University leaders face pressure to both support free speech and protect students.

www.startribune.com

 

[Derec]

Yale

Yale police arrest 47 student protesters for trespassing on Beinecke Plaza

After Yale police made morning arrests on Beinecke Plaza, hundreds of protesters moved to blockade the intersection of Grove and College Streets until rush hour, moving then to Cross Campus. The News followed the day live.

yaledailynews.com

These Yale protesters are overtly pro-terrorism. They had a display honoring Walid Daqqa, a terrorist who led a PFLP unit which kidnapped, tortured, mutilated and murdered an Israeli solider in the 1980s.

Eventually, karma caught up with Daqqa, who got cancer and recently died in custody shortly after his sentence was about to end.'

 

[Arctish]

Go back to Poland is a refernce to Auchwitz. While not a threat, I'd find the statement potential expellable. Such a comment allegedly came from outside the school though.

Says who?

Was the person who said "go back to Poland" interviewed? Did they confirm that was their meaning? Or are you supposing they were making a reference to Auschwitz when, for all you know, they might have been talking about Warsaw?

Well the person yelling this is a bully at the very least and a thug.

A bully, perhaps, but a thug? We have no evidence that person has a history of violence or anger issues. All we know is they shouted a phrase with racist and xenophobic roots and now people who want to discredit the student protesters are making hay with it, even though he or she is not a student and does not appear to be affiliated with them.

 

[Toni]

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

When you hold Israel to standards dissimilar to any other country in the world, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should just roll over and not defend itself from attacks by Hamas and other Tehran vassals, you might be an anti-semite.
When you think Israel should be destroyed, you damn sure are an anti-semite.

In the world without nuanced thinking, I’d agree. But I live in the real world where I can understand that the call for destruction of a country may he a call for the destruction of it government but not its people.

Yes, but there certainly are plenty of people who call for both the destruction of Israel and the destruction of all Jews, not merely the toppling of Bibi.