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Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

Derec said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
A majority of Americans now favor a ceasefire.
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That's kind of those polls that find that majority of Americans are in favor of this or that lofty goal without considering how to get there or any downsides.
What would "ceasefire" mean concretely? Hamas refuses a ceasefire without a long laundry list of demands (as if they were winning the war on the ground) that includes release of >1000 terrorists from Israeli prisons. Including many serving life sentences.
Any ceasefire with Hamas would last only as long as they don't decide to renege and attack Israel again. There was a ceasefire in effect on 10/6/2023 after all. What good did it do anybody?
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Certainly the term "ceasefire" carries a lot of baggage. Hamas wasn't exactly on level terms before October 7th. After October 7th, they should be viewed as nothing but a terror cell pretending to be a quasi governing body. They don't deserve or warrant a ceasefire. They warrant justice being paid against them. I would say sieges need to end, but the active targeting of Hamas isn't something the world needs to end.

That said, "what good did it do anybody" is very bothersome language as well. I see lots of language like this from yourself and others, which seems to imply the justification for ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Israel, or maybe more liberally, the an apartheid set up. You don't say it out loud (type it?), but I don't see any possible alternative to the "what good did it do anybody" rhetoric.

So, could you and others please describe what the solution is in your mind, if I'm wrong, regarding the location of Muslims in Israel.
 
Derec said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Clearly there appears to be outside agitators. The on goings inside the campus are much harder to confirm due to press access on private campuses.
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Of course there are outside agitators as well. But recently "it's all outside agitators" was used as a magic phrase to deflect from the Columbia students themselves.
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I believe what you meant to say was that some were reflecting that the worst of the things being reported as happening, appeared to be occurring outside of Columbia grounds, and that those specific events shouldn't be held against the protestors on Columbia grounds. This is a reasonable standing.

These things weren't said that long ago, it shouldn't be hard to remember, because your faulty memory is taking people out of context here.
Derec said:
Hard to tell whether he is bS'ing or whether he learned from his naive and hateful remarks. Hopefully he did and he grew... unlike other people.
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Not really. He is obviously BSing. Hopefully Columbia doesn't fall for his schtick.
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Obviously? I'm not certain much can be obvious from the distance we are from these events, and the lack of information. Maybe these things wouldn't be obvious if you didn't get all your information from I Hate Muslims.com.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Playball40 said:
Loren Pechtel said:
When you are talking about the actions of the group they are the same thing. The pseudo-country Gaza and Hamas are interchangeable terms as we typically do not distinguish the actions of the government of a country from the actions of the country. We say "Russia" invaded Ukraine even though it's obviously the direction of Putin and says nothing about how the people stand on it. "Gazan" and "Hamas" are not as not all individuals support the actions of their country.
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And yet we don't blame all Russian people for the actions of Putin. And I think it's untrue that Hamas cannot be separated from innocent Gazan citizens.
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The majority of people in Gaza support Hamas and support the 10/7 massacre.
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Prove it.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
The Hamas supporters are sticking their heads in the sand about Jews dying.
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How many Jews have died at the hand of Hamas since December 7th?
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The "peace" movement is about not destroying their ability to repeat 10/7.
ZiprHead said:
And what is your endgame here? What conditions will you accept for the IDF to stop their campaign?
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No idea. I expect they will stop it when they either get the hostages out or have destroyed everything of Hamas they can get to.

All along Hamas has known they can have peace by handing back the hostages. They aren't interested.
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This is absolutely UNTRUE. We can certainly go after Hamas without killing thousands of innocent men, women and children of Palestine. We do it all the flipping time. BN simply does not wish to as HE is calling for the eradication of all Arabs by his actions. He is NOT doing this to 'garner the release of the hostages, defend Israel or prevent an attack' and you know it.
 
This is an interview from about a week ago, Columbia student Jonathan Ben-Menachem. I don't think I disagree with him.


Here also is a NYT article on Khymani James:
www.nytimes.com

Columbia Bars Student Protester Who Said ‘Zionists Don’t Deserve to Live’

After video surfaced on social media, the student, Khymani James, said on Friday that his comments were wrong.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

I don't think I disagree with Columbia's decision to ban him either.
 
ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
Well the training center is still being built. Ironically, these protesters are also against the training center.
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It's a green space called "the lungs of the city." Of course they don't want to lose that.
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We talked about that in detail in another thread. There is a lot of misleading propaganda, but no matter how often it is debunked, people keep pushing it. The area where the training center is to be built is the site of the old Atlanta Prison Farm. Abandoned buildings, dumped rubble etc. The South River Forest proper is south of it, with an industrial park in between. It would not be affected by the training facility, and neither would the Intrenchment Creek Park to the east. They are threatened not by "Cop City" but by proposed movie studio developments.
anBn.jpg

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The reality that the creeps opposed to the training center and involved in vandalism, arson and other crimes connected to it are anti-police extremists. Most are from out of state, for example NYC or Massachusetts. Don't tell me they came all this way here just because of one 85 acre suburban green space that isn't even that green. One of these creeps, a Venezuelan who was living in Florida at the time, shot a state trooper in the abdomen before being shot and killed himself.
Alliance between them and these anti-Israel protesters says a lot.
 
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Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
This is an interview from about a week ago, Columbia student Jonathan Ben-Menachem. I don't think I disagree with him.
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JBM is a far-left police abolitionist. See his screeds here.

I don't think I disagree with Columbia's decision to ban [Khymani James] either.
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He should be expelled, not just temporarily banned from campus.
 
Playball40 said:
This is absolutely UNTRUE. We can certainly go after Hamas without killing thousands of innocent men, women and children of Palestine.
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Civilians get killed in wars. That is inevitable. Especially when the enemy violates rules of war and hides among, and below, the civilian population.
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BtVjY4YIMAAI0ts.jpg:large


If you, Playball40, were the prime minister or defense minister of Israel on 10/7/2023, what would have been your plan? Please be specific, addressing the facts on the ground, including Hamas tunnels under ostensibly civilian buildings and infrastructure.
 
Derec said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
This is an interview from about a week ago, Columbia student Jonathan Ben-Menachem. I don't think I disagree with him.
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JBM is a far-left police abolitionist. See his screeds here.
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He's a published PhD student and has published about crime which is why you don't like him, but whatever stuff you are writing about him is irrelevant to what he said in the video. I wrote that I don't disagree with what he had to say in the video. Rather than engage in ad homs against him, engage in the substance of what he said that is relevant to THIS thread. Thank you.

Derec said:
I don't think I disagree with Columbia's decision to ban [Khymani James] either.
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He should be expelled, not just temporarily banned from campus.
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So his words are more justification for more punishment than the pro-Israel students who launched chemicals at a student population?
 
Playball40 said:
And what of the thousands of Palestinians that are being held in Israel? No charges. No trial. No real crime to speak of....just accusations. Do they deserve to either be tried (ya know, speedy) or released?
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Most of those held in prisons before 10/7 have been duly convicted, many of murder. People Hamas demands to be released like the Barghoutis or those who have bamboozled useful idiots in the West like Walid Daqqa.
There were some held in "administrative detention" for terrorism, but even that has to be approved by a judge. In any case, how is that different than Gitmo? We held unlawful combatants there too without trial, but that detention did not have to be renewed by the judge every 6 months like the administrative detention in Israel.
In any case, before 10/7 the use of administrative detention was relatively limited. Since 10/7, of course, the country has been in a state of emergency and a lot of terror suspects were arrested and thus the numbers in administrative detention have ballooned.
But hey, Israel just offered to free thousands of terrorists in exchange for 40 hostages. I think such a ratio is a mistake, especially without demanding that every single hostage be freed.
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Because you disagree with his ideas?
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Because he talked about killing people he disagrees with. In a disciplinary hearing no less, so he was on the radar of the administration even back in January.
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Was he serious or was it rhetorical hyperbole?
I ask because he was since apologized for his comments and admitted they were wrong.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
He's a published PhD student
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In sociology. Might as well be a PhD in underwater basket weaving.
and has published about crime which is why you don't like him,
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He has far-left views, which is why I do not like him. Views like abolishing police or giving black people reparations.
but whatever stuff you are writing about him is irrelevant to what he said in the video.
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Of course his background and his radical political views are relevant. I started watching the video, but did not finish. He started bitching about Mike Johnson visiting campus, but he is apparently fine with Ilhan Omar visiting campus.
I wrote that I don't disagree with what he had to say in the video. Rather than engage in ad homs against him, engage in the substance of what he said that is relevant to THIS thread. Thank you.
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It's not an ad-hom to point out his far-left views. Being anti-Israel is also very fashionable on the far left. So his political views are relevant here. Far more than him being Jewish.
So his words are more justification for more punishment than the pro-Israel students who launched chemicals at a student population?
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What "chemicals"? [citation needed]
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Was he serious or was it rhetorical hyperbole?
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Would it have mattered if he was for example threatening black students with death?
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As it turns out, he wasn’t threatening anyone with death- it was just rhetorical hyperbole that passionate people sometimes say.

Given that, the answer to your pointless hypothetical whataboutism is “ not to me”.
 
Derec said:
So his words are more justification for more punishment than the pro-Israel students who launched chemicals at a student population?
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What "chemicals"? [citation needed]
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Columbia Students Allegedly Sprayed With Putrid Chemical at Pro-Palestine Rally

Some attendants told the Columbia Spectator they recognized the chemical as Skunk, which has been used by the Israeli military against demonstrators in the West Bank. It’s identified by its putrid stench, described as a mix of decomposing flesh and excrement and worse than raw sewage. The revolting smell can linger on clothes for days after it is deployed.

While the chemical’s manufacturer claims it is harmless, student protestors reported symptoms such as burning eyes, headaches, and nausea. The Columbia Spectator reported that a disabled student was diagnosed with “exposure to a harmful chemical,” which worsened her autoimmune condition and caused her to miss class for days.
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Organizations supporting the protest, including two pro-Palestine clubs that were suspended from the university in December, claimed in a joint statement on Instagram that two people behind the alleged spraying incident had been identified as former Israeli Defense Force soldiers and current Columbia students. According to witnesses, the students were wearing fake versions of the keffiyeh, a Palestinian scarf that has become a symbol of solidarity and resistance, and verbally assailed protestors who held a “CU Jews for Ceasefire” banner.

The Pro-Palestine organizations accused Columbia of failing to protect students who express pro-Palestine sentiments from escalating harassment in the nearly four months since Israel launched its military offensive on the Gaza Strip.
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Derec said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
He's a published PhD student
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In sociology. Might as well be a PhD in underwater basket weaving.
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Some people are more dedicated to these kinds of subjects than you are.

Derec said:
and has published about crime which is why you don't like him,
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He has far-left views, which is why I do not like him. Views like abolishing police or giving black people reparations.
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I don't care and it is irrelevant.

Derec said:
but whatever stuff you are writing about him is irrelevant to what he said in the video.
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Of course his background and his radical political views are relevant. I started watching the video, but did not finish. He started bitching about Mike Johnson visiting campus, but he is apparently fine with Ilhan Omar visiting campus.
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Your ad homs are not relevant to his views on Gaza discussed in the video.

Derec said:
I wrote that I don't disagree with what he had to say in the video. Rather than engage in ad homs against him, engage in the substance of what he said that is relevant to THIS thread. Thank you.
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It's not an ad-hom to point out his far-left views. Being anti-Israel is also very fashionable on the far left. So his political views are relevant here. Far more than him being Jewish.
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You mean a SELF-HATING JEW, right? Right?

Derec said:
So his words are more justification for more punishment than the pro-Israel students who launched chemicals at a student population?
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What "chemicals"? [citation needed]
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Someone hasn't been following the thread.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Some people are more dedicated to these kinds of subjects than you are.
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Some people are dedicated to memorizing baseball statistics. So what?
I don't care and it is irrelevant.
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Of course his radical political views are relevant. If he was far-right MAGA, you wouldn't disagree with that.

You mean a SELF-HATING JEW, right? Right?
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Self-hatred is endemic on the far-left. Anti-white whites, anti-American Americans etc.

Someone hasn't been following the thread.
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It's a long thread. But Arctish posted an article. There are some unsubstantiated allegations, but you presented it as fact.
That said, if those two people (whoever they are) really sprayed "skunk" on people and if they are Columbia students, then of course they should be disciplined by the school, up to and including expulsion. If.
 
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