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Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

He'd fit in well as a member of the Squad. :rolleyesa:
He'd also fit in well with the Teaparty.
How do you figure?
Ayanna Presley is his mentor, not Marjorie Taylor Greene.
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He sounds more than a little like our old friend NightHawkBuzz.
Who? Is he also an "anti-capitalist" and "anti-imperialist" etc.?
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He wants to be in Congress so he can enforce his way of doing things.
Don't they all?
He's an ideological authoritarian who wants to be in Congress.
Like Buzz. Like MTG.
That's what I mean.
Tom
 
He's an ideological authoritarian who wants to be in Congress.
Like Buzz. Like MTG.
Like Rashida Tlaib. Like Ilhan Omar.
That's what I mean.
Tom
But MTG is a right-winger, while Khymani James is on the far left, just like the Squad. So he would be a good fit with them, not the Tea Party, whose Ideology he is not a good fit with.
 
He's an ideological authoritarian who wants to be in Congress.
Like Buzz. Like MTG.
Like Rashida Tlaib. Like Ilhan Omar.
That's what I mean.
Tom
But MTG is a right-winger, while Khymani James is on the far left, just like the Squad. So he would be a good fit with them, not the Tea Party, whose Ideology he is not a good fit with.
I don't particularly like any of the ideological authoritarians.
I tend to group them together.
I don't much care if they are right wingers or left wingers.

I'm not even sure what those words mean anymore.
Tom
 
The University President is using hyperbole here. And quite needlessly so. Decorum and collegiate etiquette would have sufficed.
You think it is hyperbolic to call an environment with these kind of incidents threatening and intimidating to many students?
I don't think it is hyperbolic. I think it may be accurate representation of some students' perceptions. But their perception does not make it a reasonable one.
Mayor Adams said:
“I am horrified and disgusted with the antisemitism being spewed at and around the Columbia University campus — like the example of a young woman holding a sign with an arrow pointing to Jewish students stating ‘Al-Qasam’s Next Targets,’ or another where a woman is literally yelling ‘We are Hamas,’ or another where groups of students are chanting ‘We don’t want no Zionists here’

And there have been others:

On Sunday, those allegations gathered further steam after footage on social media appeared to show pro-Palestine activists outside the Columbia campus telling pro-Israel students to “go back to Poland”. One activist said that October 7 “will happen not one more time, not five more times, not 10 more times, not 100 more times, not 1,000 more times, but 10,000 times”...A chapter of an international Orthodox Jewish movement, Chabad at Columbia University, released a statement saying that protesters also told Jewish students, “You have no culture”, “All you do is colonise” and to “Go back to Europe”.
Those examples violate my sense of decorum but I don't think it is reasonable for anyone to be intimidated or feel harassed by such taunts.
That's a judgment call, and we also don't know the specific contents of all the student complaints.

I think a university should err on the side of keeping students in a safe and welcoming environment and keep main university functions running relatively uninterrupted over allowing students to set up protest encampments.
Allowing reasonable protests is erring on the side of educating students on the fundamental notion of freedom of speech and the exchange of ideas. This is an university in NYC, not some kindergarten.

Frankly, I know from experience that student and faculty quickly learn how to game the "victimhood" mantle in order to stifle disagreement or views they don't like.
I disagree with expelling any students for the encampment but I think it is reasonable to put a stop to it. Expulsion should be based on specific threats and harassment by specific individuals against specific individuals, with due process rights respected.
Suspending or expelling protesting students two weeks before the last day of classes (April 29 from what I can tell) without a damn good reason is simply cowardice. Unless these students were actual threats, there are other ways to deal with them.

I wanted to add two main points to this discussion after getting a handle on some additional information and also after observing a pattern here. I wasn't sure which post to respond to regarding the subject of victims at universities and due process. I chose this post to respond to, but it could have been any number of earlier posts about Columbia and questions about gaming the system or the subjectivity of feeling intimidated.

So, first, intimidation......

As in many other political issues, let me say that spectra are a thing. There is diversity among the Jewish community. It isn't quite that there is a radical group called Jewish Voice for Peace and then every other Jew against them, but instead, there is a spectrum of religious and political views. How that applies here: After looking at a number of happenings at universities, I have noticed a pattern. The persons who say they feel intimidated by the protests are most often orthodox Jews. The Jewish persons who participate in the protests are most often Jewish Voice for Peace. If the orthodox Jews are ultra-orthodox conservative Jews, then they are kind of polar opposites in one sense. However, if you look at the Jewish group at MIT (see video from earlier) who is protesting, they call themselves MIT Jews 4 Ceasefire and so presumably among them are less radical than merely Jewish Voice for Peace. If you look at the video of the MIT Jewish professor, he calls them "lost souls," so you have a professor using religious terminology about students and he also infers they are anti-semitic because of their political position. So when we hear statements of anti-Semitism, we have to put that into context. To add--one of the JVP members at Columbia and another member of the protestors had chemicals sprayed at them by Jewish students opposed to the protests. These were students who had come from Israel and at least one that I read had served in the IDF, meaning they were Zionist, and probably also very conservative. Next, Netanyahu himself recently has said that protesting the war or calling for a ceasefire is anti-semitic. Netanyahu is not quite at the furthest extreme of right-wingedness but is allied to some real crazies. Most recently, Bernie Sanders has responded to him in an open letter. As we know Bernie is against the war and is calling for a ceasefire. BUT Bernie is not the only one. A recent Gallup poll says the majority of Americans are for a ceasefire and that means if Netanyahu is right, America is anti-semitic. BUT, we're not the only ones, there are right now protests in Israel by Jewish people against Netanyahu and for a ceasefire to negotiate for hostages. Presumably, Jews in Israel are Zionists by and large, and so we have Zionist Jews for a ceasefire, i.e. according to the thinking, they have to be anti-semitic, too! The wide range of views among Jews shows how the label of anti-semitism is being used unreasonably.

If you look at the link above for MIT Jews 4 Ceasefire, it shows an article written in The Tech. It's pretty good and identifies the term "crybullying." I think that is apt, BUT I also think it is important to point out because there is a spectrum of people and experiences, it can't all be this one thing. Some people probably legitimately feel intimidated on all sides. Even if we can logically show that the term anti-semitism is being weaponized, it doesn't mean that no anti-semitism exists.

Second, I have taken a look at the statutes of Columbia University and things really are not as straightforward as some people have assumed insofar as the authority of the President and due process. People may imagine a world where the Columbia University President is a dictator, but we must remember this is an Ivy League institution, centuries-old, an elite liberal arts university with tons of history of protests and an idea of democracy not to mention it needs to respect the rights of people besides all that.

I believe that there are 3 relevant sections in the statutes.

  • Section 1 Powers The President shall be the chief officer of the University and, subject to the Trustees, shall have general charge of the affairs of the University. The President shall be the presiding officer of the University Senate and the chair of every Faculty and Administrative Board established by the Trustees. His or her concurrence shall be necessary to every act of a Faculty or of an Administrative Board, unless after his or her nonconcurrence, the act or resolution shall be again passed by a vote of two-thirds of the entire body at the same or at the next succeeding meeting thereof. In all cases where there shall be nonconcurrence between the President and a majority of the faculty or Administrative Board present at the time, the names of those voting on each side shall be entered on the minutes and each member shall be entitled to have entered on the minutes his or her reasons for his or her vote.
  • Section 23 General policies Subject to the reserve power of the Trustees and the provisions of Section 25, the University Senate shall be a policy-making body which may consider all matters of Universitywide concern, all matters affecting more than one Faculty or school, and all matters pertaining to the implementation and execution of agreements with the other educational institutions that are now or may hereafter become affiliated with the University. Without limitation by enumeration the University Senate shall ...
  • Section 444 ... (f) ... If the President, upon consultation with a majority of a panel established by the University Senate’s Executive Committee, decides that a demonstration poses a clear and present danger to persons, property, or the substantial functioning of any division of the University, he or she shall take all necessary steps to secure the cooperation of external authorities to bring about the end of the disruption. The President shall make public his or her decision to the fullest extent possible as soon as it is feasible. Nothing in the above shall be construed to limit the President’s emergency authority to protect persons or property.
The President has to consult with the Senate's executive committee upon calling in police on a demonstration. She did so, but the committee unanimously rejected the idea to call the police. The statute leaves open the possibility that she can still call the police under "emergency authority to protect persons and property" in context meaning "clear and present danger." There was no emergency issue to property. There was no clear and present danger to persons.

It's true that some people could have felt intimidated. Some of that is propagandized and weaponized calls of anti-semitism. That said, some of the so-called "outside agitators," presumably having made their way in could certainly increase unease among the students. However, there's also just the issue of orthodox activist leadership declaring all these demonstrations as anti-semitic. The President's decision was also preceded by political pressure directly from Congress who have on record all the activities against THE JEWISH PROTESTORS. They wrote a letter to Congress from several colleges and how JVP has been mistreated. But this is not the narrative and not the superficial media treatment of what has happened. So she was being threatened by the government of being fired, possibly lawsuits, too.

When she made the statement that the protest "severely disrupts campus life, and creates a harassing and intimidating environment for many of our students" she was justifying it by portions of the statute.

After ignoring the Senate which has all the information to see through the complicated issue and ignore superficial media and propaganda from the government...and has less worry about being fired than she does, the Senate was going to censure her. They still can besides that with 2/3 majority veto many things she can order. So, again, she is not a dictator.

They all seem to be slowly working on a compromise. They have worked with students to reduce the tents so that it is less of a disruption. They have also gotten students to agree not to allow in outsiders which they had already made statements they were against outside extremist statements...anyway. The school seems to have agreed to more transparency.

After some negotiation, they seem to be at an impasse, but the President has also been censured less so than she would have been.
 
In my neck of the woods, Emory University (a kudzu league school) got in on the fun.

Protest encampment set up in support of Palestinians on Emory campus; school says it was 'trespass,' numerous protesters detained

NBC11 said:
Emory's statement from University Communications Assistant Vice President Laura Diamond said that the protesters were "not members of our community" and were "attempting to disrupt our university as our students finish classes and prepare for finals."
More "outside agitators only" myths. I have it from good authority that at least one of the arrestees is an Emory student known to my source. In addition, the article itself debunks it:
As of this message, we have been notified that 28 individuals have been arrested, including 20 Emory community members, some of whom have been released. We are working with responding agencies to expedite the release of any Emory community members who remain in custody.
In addition to Gaza, these protesters also want to stop the public safety training center for the City of Atlanta.
At least two people identifying themselves as students at Atlanta universities wrote an op-ed Thursday morning in the outlet Mondoweiss describing the reasons and goals for the encampment, which include opposing the future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center that has long been opposed by an activist movement derisively calling it "Cop City."
This training center has long been opposed, often violently, by left-wing extremists. "Mondoweiss" itself is a radically and notoriously anti-Israel website.
 
So much for the assertion that it's just "outside agitators" and that the Columbia students themselves are not that bad.
Clearly there appears to be outside agitators. The on goings inside the campus are much harder to confirm due to press access on private campuses.
Student Protest Leader at Columbia: ‘Zionists Don’t Deserve to Live’
NY Times said:
The student, Khymani James, said in the January video that “Zionists don’t deserve to live” and “Be grateful that I’m not just going out and murdering Zionists.”[...]The hearing, conducted by an associate director of the university’s Center for Student Success and Intervention, was focused on an earlier comment he shared on social media, in which he discussed fighting a Zionist. “I don’t fight to injure or for there to be a winner or a loser, I fight to kill,” he wrote.
Truly vile.
Certainly not a good thing to say, to put it mildly.
article said:
Mr. James made the comments during and after a disciplinary hearing with Columbia administrators that he recorded and then posted on Instagram.
Sounds like he said some bad shit, and the school called him up on it.

More recently...
article said:
Early Friday morning, Mr. James posted a statement on social media addressing his comments. “What I said was wrong,” he wrote. “Every member of our community deserves to feel safe without qualification.” He noted that he made these comments in January before he become involved with the protest movement and added that the leaders of the student protests did not condone the comments. “I agree with their assessment,” he wrote.
Hard to tell whether he is bS'ing or whether he learned from his naive and hateful remarks. Hopefully he did and he grew... unlike other people.

Also...

I didn't realize it was okay to tarnish an entire group based on what one person does. There has been tons of documented hate at the Jewish Voice for Peace. You can follow links in the thread and I've got more. Does this mean, Zionist groups should be expelled? I don't think so.
 
Where the fuck did they learn to police like this. Admittedly, the professor got too close. At that point intervening officer should step in and ask her to step back, not grab her in any manner.

And blacks be like, why does this shit have to happen to white people before you listen?
 
Where the fuck did they learn to police like this. Admittedly, the professor got too close.

I know what you mean by too close, as in risky for misinterpretation of her motivation or risky from police observers who cannot see in front of her...so they might think she is trying to release the student or help him resist or something.

HOWEVER, from her perspective, she is staff at the university and so she wants to keep students alive, healthy, and safe. If you watch what is happening, a student's head is being pushed into the concrete. So she is reprimanding the police and checking on the student's health as per what she thinks is her function and duty.

At that point intervening officer should step in and ask her to step back, not grab her in any manner.

Yes.

Here is more on both that incident as well as the other professor who got arrested:

Also, "we're with CNN":
 
Where the fuck did they learn to police like this.
Well the training center is still being built. Ironically, these protesters are also against the training center.
Admittedly, the professor got too close.
She definitely did. Note that among anti-police activists there is this tactic of "dearresting" somebody, i.e. interfering in an arrest so that the arrested person is freed. Police might have thought she was attempting something like that.
And blacks be like, why does this shit have to happen to white people before you listen?
Wasn't there a lot of listening in 2020 about all that BS?
 
When you are talking about the actions of the group they are the same thing. The pseudo-country Gaza and Hamas are interchangeable terms as we typically do not distinguish the actions of the government of a country from the actions of the country. We say "Russia" invaded Ukraine even though it's obviously the direction of Putin and says nothing about how the people stand on it. "Gazan" and "Hamas" are not as not all individuals support the actions of their country.
And yet we don't blame all Russian people for the actions of Putin. And I think it's untrue that Hamas cannot be separated from innocent Gazan citizens.
The majority of people in Gaza support Hamas and support the 10/7 massacre.
 
The batons are definitely better than guns, but is the gear really needed? Can't we have those guys on backup in case things do go poorly?
The first guy appears to have ammunition, probably rifle ammunition. The second guy does not. I don't think the third guy does but I'm not sure and I can't tell at all about anyone farther along. Other than that I see stuff like radios, ballistic vests, face shields, medical kits and batons. Other than the magazines that's all reasonable stuff to be bringing.
 
Where the fuck did they learn to police like this.
Well the training center is still being built. Ironically, these protesters are also against the training center.
Admittedly, the professor got too close.
She definitely did. Note that among anti-police activists there is this tactic of "dearresting" somebody, i.e. interfering in an arrest so that the arrested person is freed. Police might have thought she was attempting something like that.
And blacks be like, why does this shit have to happen to white people before you listen?
Wasn't there a lot of listening in 2020 about all that BS?
Apparently not. Given what we're all watching, here.
 
The are racist religious bigots who want Jews to die, and it appears the crackdown on the peaceful student protests at Columbia has attracted some of them to the campus gates.
The Hamas supporters are sticking their heads in the sand about Jews dying.

I disagree.

Hamas supporters presumably know enough about Hamas to have a good idea what it is and what it does.

People who advocate for peace in Gaza, people who oppose Zionist expansion in the West Bank, people who call themselves pro-human rights, are typically conflated with Hamas supporters by you and a few others around here, presumably for rhetorical reasons. And even then, that doesn't mean peace advocates are sticking their heads in the sand about anyone dying.
The problem is that your actions are exactly what Hamas is after. Kill Jews, rely on the dupes to keep Israel from shooting back too much.

"Ceasefire now!" is actually asking for genocide of the Jews even though you stick your head in the sand about it.

Jews for Peace are not anti-Semitic, and people calling for a ceasefire in Gaza followed by a genuine, equitable, enforceable peace treaty between the Israelis and the Palestinians aren't saying Israel should surrender.
The problem is that they see Israel as the barrier to such an agreement and thus the "solution" is always Israeli concessions. Never mind that the driving force is the existence of Israel. It's the fallacy of thinking there must be a good answer.

Support your claim that Jews for Peace see Israel as a barrier to a genuine, equitable, enforceable peace treaty, rather than seeing certain political factions and a certain Israeli Prime Minister as the barriers.
Support a claim I did not make?!

What I said is they always see the route to "peace" being through Israeli concessions, regardless of the facts.

You're the one with the fantasy of an enforceable peace treaty. How in the world do you expect to enforce it? Is it going to be UN forces that are willfully blind to the very Hezbollah activity they are supposed to be preventing?

And it's also a fantasy to think that Hamas is interested in an equitable peace treaty. And they're radical Islam, it's against their faith to make a genuine peace. All agreements with non-Muslims are to be broken when it's to your advantage to do so.

Conflating everyone who has ever criticized a policy Netanyahu or his political mentors have supported with Nazis is absurd, but some folks appear to genuinely think there are only two options: pro-Zionist or anti-Semitic.
They aren't knowingly agreeing with the Nazis, but they are in effect saying don't take any action against the Nazis other than in immediate self defense. That's de facto support of the Nazis even though that is not their intention.
Do you honestly believe criticizing Netanyahu and his political mentors is the same as supporting Nazis?

I'm asking because I suspect it's just bullshit and blather, but if you're serious I'm gonna show you some Nazi supporting articles from the largest news outlet in Israel. Nobody supports Nazis like the Israelis, amirite?
Excluded middle.

I'm saying Hamas is equivalent to the Nazis. Not all criticism of Netanyahu is support of Hamas. However, most of it is being a useful idiot for them.
 
The Hamas supporters are sticking their heads in the sand about Jews dying.
How many Jews have died at the hand of Hamas since December 7th?
The "peace" movement is about not destroying their ability to repeat 10/7.
And what is your endgame here? What conditions will you accept for the IDF to stop their campaign?
No idea. I expect they will stop it when they either get the hostages out or have destroyed everything of Hamas they can get to.

All along Hamas has known they can have peace by handing back the hostages. They aren't interested.
 
The Hamas supporters are sticking their heads in the sand about Jews dying.
How many Jews have died at the hand of Hamas since December 7th?

And what is your endgame here? What conditions will you accept for the IDF to stop their campaign?
Indeed. One issue with Loren's position is he is a tad bit unclear on what it actually is. He seems against one state, two state, any number of states.
I would like to see three states: Israel/West Bank/Gaza. I do not believe that can happen, though, because Iran will ensure the war continues. And statehood for the Palestinians is meaningless while the war continues.

I think there's a remote possibility of a peaceful West Bank but so far they show no signs of it. There isn't going to be peace when the most important part of the budget (by their own terms) is funding terrorists.
 
article said:
Mr. James made the comments during and after a disciplinary hearing with Columbia administrators that he recorded and then posted on Instagram.
Sounds like he said some bad shit, and the school called him up on it.

More recently...
article said:
Early Friday morning, Mr. James posted a statement on social media addressing his comments. “What I said was wrong,” he wrote. “Every member of our community deserves to feel safe without qualification.” He noted that he made these comments in January before he become involved with the protest movement and added that the leaders of the student protests did not condone the comments. “I agree with their assessment,” he wrote.
Hard to tell whether he is bS'ing or whether he learned from his naive and hateful remarks. Hopefully he did and he grew... unlike other people.
You actually think he is walking them back?! That sudden after that much hate--that looks like he was warned to behave or be expelled.
 
If you look at the video of the MIT Jewish professor, he calls them "lost souls," so you have a professor using religious terminology about students
Objection:

"Souls" in this context is of religious origin but is not religious.


a lonely and unhappy person

Likewise, "souls" are used by airline pilots to list the number of living people on board in emergencies, it does not count the dead. (If the pilot reported 20 souls on board and rescue crews have rescued 20 people they should no longer take any risks looking for people.)
 
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