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Why "we came out fine after Trump's first term so we'll come out fine with another term, there is no danger" is dangerously stupid

Axulus

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Ezra Klien had a very good monologe destroying the argument you often hear from MAGA that there was no real damage done to our country/democracy in Trump's first term, so it is equivalent of Trump Derangement Syndrome to keep going on about the danger of a second Trump term.

He puts it in the context of one of Trump's most unique and characteristic traits: his disinhibition. Pretty much everyone agrees he has almost zero impulse control. It is one of the traits MAGA love about him: he will say whatever is on his mind with no filter.

But it is also one of his biggest flaws as a decision maker. A flaw which is getting worse as he ages.

In his first term, he surrounded himself with more traditional government bureaucrats who believed in upholding the constitution and doing what's best for the country was more important than being obidient to Trump. They were able to restrain him from his impulsive and destructive behavior by not obeying him and disuading him from his worst ideas.

Some of these include the following:

Ordering the military to shoot the George Floyd protestors in the legs, even the peaceful ones.

Telling FEMA to stop sending money to California for the wildfires because they didn't deserve it.

Asking the US military to drop bombs on drug labs in Mexico.

Ordering the justice department to open and publically announce a fake investigation into election fraud.

Ordering the justice department to prosecute Comey and Hillary.

Ordering Pence to not certify Biden as the election winner.

None of these were done because the adults in the room said no, they will not obey these commands.

Among many, many others. The book "the toddler in chief" documents hundreds of such instances of the people around Trump having to restrain him and disobey his many crazy ideas and orders.

MAGA calls these people the swamp since they are stopping him from doing what he wants. JD Vance has called it anti-democratic when unelected officials decide not to obey the democratically elected president.

This time around, these kind of guardrails will be mostly absent. Donald Trump values obedience to himself highest among all other traits, and he has surrounded himself with such people much more so this time around. It's why he says he needs generals like what Hitler had, blindly obedient in his mind. JD Vance was chosen in part because he said he would've done what Mike Pence didn't do regarding the certification of the election. His advisors are all coming up with plans to staff the top positions full of loyalists. He will almost certainly have control of the senate with 50 or 51 Republicians as the overwhelming likely scenario to advance his cabinet positions (or just install acting ones when the senate stalls). He also now has effective criminal immunity granted to him by the Supreme Court for his official orders.

It is truly insane to not see the danger of a 2nd Trump presidency. Many dozens of former Trump staffers and cabinet officials have said exactly that. The people who were not anti-Trump liberals, many of whom agreed with his MAGA movement, who worked for him directly and know him best, are all sounding the alarm.

See the full Ezra Klien monologe here:

 
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destroying the argument you often hear from MAGA that there was no real damage done to our country

The WHAT?
I guess the ONE MILLION "EXCESS DEATHS" his pandemic lies caused in the US alone, were a much needed purge.
The continuing nurture of anti-science fear and loathing... not harmful?
I guess I missed the argument.
 
destroying the argument you often hear from MAGA that there was no real damage done to our country

The WHAT?
I guess the ONE MILLION "EXCESS DEATHS" his pandemic lies caused in the US alone, were a much needed purge.
The continuing nurture of anti-science fear and loathing... not harmful?
I guess I missed the argument.
The latest MAGA talking point is that leadership in a pandemic doesn't matter, the virus doesn't obey government officials. The government should just stay out of the way.

One of Trump's surrogates said this in a recent CNN debate panel.
 
destroying the argument you often hear from MAGA that there was no real damage done to our country

The WHAT?
I guess the ONE MILLION "EXCESS DEATHS" his pandemic lies caused in the US alone, were a much needed purge.
The continuing nurture of anti-science fear and loathing... not harmful?
I guess I missed the argument.
I've brought up with several MAGAS that I am far better off than I was in Trump's 2020, and they all say 2020 "doesn't count." Or they blame Fauci or "the deep state." Petulant children with their fingers stuck in their ears.
 
All the Trumpies I know are tuned into echo chamber media. One of them saw me looking at the newspaper stand in Krogers and said, "Oh, there's nothing worthwhile in those!"
They believe the most childish lies and pass around ridiculous stories -- i.e.,Kamala's magic earrings at the debate. They hear someone tell a ridiculous story on Fox or One America and it spreads across the country in a day. (I taught in the public school for 31 years -- well, taught and assisted at gender reassignment surgery, of course), and it distresses me to see former colleagues who mouth this malicious nonsense.

And, to the OP's point, yes, Trump will be able to go Full Fascist. There would be virtually nothing he couldn't shoe-horn into SCOTUS's parameters of Presidential immunity. The 6 justices have prepared a fertile seedbed for a homegrown dictator, and we have the man before us. Somehow, his unhinged ranting is just what half the country was waiting to hear. I hope this era (The Rise of the Dumb) comes to a close in eleven days, or at least loses its #1 matinee idol.
 
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"I made it home this time drunk so I'm going to keep on drink driving until something bad happens" - MAGA supporter.
Why is it "drink" driving in British English?

"Drunk" makes some sense as it is an adjective applied to the driver...

[/derail]
 
Why is it "drink" driving in British English?
It's an abbreviation of "Drinking and driving".

And that was Australian English (though admittedly it's the same in many British dialects*).









* Australian English is fairly homogenous, with few regional vocabulary or idiomatic differences, though there are noticable regional (and class based) accents. British English is so wildly varied that it can be literally impossible to comprehend someone born fifty miles away. Some of the rural dialects in the North East are more closely related to Old Norse than to Middle English, and the parts that are almost Modern English are overlaid with an impenetrably thick accent, despite all of which the speakers of them are adamant that they are not only speaking English, but are speaking it properly, unlike all those other buggers.
 
“The biggest mistake I made,” he said, was that “I picked some people that I shouldn’t have picked.”
When Rogan asked if Trump was speaking about “neocons,” Trump said: “Yeah, neocons, or bad people, or disloyal people.”

As he told his former VP: "Mike, you're too honest"

IOW, the people he picked were too honest and had too much integrity. They took an oath to the constitution and not to him. No blind obedience.

He has learned from his mistake and will do whatever he can to find those whose loyalty is to him and not the constitution.
 
“The biggest mistake I made,” he said, was that “I picked some people that I shouldn’t have picked.”
When Rogan asked if Trump was speaking about “neocons,” Trump said: “Yeah, neocons, or bad people, or disloyal people.”

As he told his former VP: "Mike, you're too honest"

IOW, the people he picked were too honest and had too much integrity. They took an oath to the constitution and not to him. No blind obedience.

He has learned from his mistake and will do whatever he can to find those whose loyalty is to him and not the constitution.
Yep. He's going to hit the ground running this time. No one with so much as an ounce of integrity will be in a Trump administration from the get-go. Plus presidential immunity, impeachment being a thing of the past, all felonies effectively cleared. God knows what shape the US (or the world for that matter) will be in on the other side of four years.
Our best hope will be that Trump dies by hook or crook and the sooner the better. Then it will be Vance who I believe is Trump's running mate for just this reason, opportunity. What he'd do with it is anyone's guess.
 
destroying the argument you often hear from MAGA that there was no real damage done to our country

The WHAT?
I guess the ONE MILLION "EXCESS DEATHS" his pandemic lies caused in the US alone, were a much needed purge.
The continuing nurture of anti-science fear and loathing... not harmful?
I guess I missed the argument.
There was enough non-compliance that I don't really think what he did or didn't do made much difference. He made some bad blunders but they didn't actually matter. (For example, only testing Chinese people coming in, not Americans returning from China. But the China version of the virus quickly lost out to the mutation from Europe.) The only meaningful harm is the anti-vax attitude.
 
There was enough non-compliance that I don't really think what he did or didn't do made much difference
One of us is delusional then, and I don’t think it’s me. Trump was the original, the loudest, the lyingest and most perpetual denyer of COVID’s virulence and lethality as well as the effectiveness and safety of vaccines and masks. He fucking CELEBRATED fucking “COVID parties”. He popularized anti-vax nonsense. He encouraged “non-compliance” and stupid behavior.

Worldwide he is likely responsible for many millions of deaths.

We did survive Trump 1.0 but we didn’t “come out fine”.
 
Personally I did pretty good economically under Trump . When the government was giving out those vouchers I blowing away my sales projections and maxing out bonuses.

But my brother in law died because he listened to Trump's stupidity concerning covid.

I am the apple of my own eye but I realize the world doesn't revolve around me. Trump does bring out the worst in our politicians and our public and I don't want to see him get in again
 
I caught a clip of the Joe Rogan interview where they were discussing UFOs and whether or not there's aliens visiting us. Trump said:

"Area 51 or whatever is...I think it's the number one tourist attraction in the whole country or something."

Um...this guy was President of the United States. Commander in Chief of the most powerful military on the planet. Privy to classified material that may never be revealed.

And he thinks a highly classified US Air Force facility in the depths of the Nevada desert is like Disneyland? Talk about dangerously stupid...
 
And he thinks a highly classified US Air Force facility in the depths of the Nevada desert is like Disneyland?

Well the Air Force had to tell him something when he asked, and they could hardly tell him the truth if they wanted it to remain secret, could they?
 
Trump being POTUS was like having a hyperactive mentally disabled 5 year old who knew nothing about baseball being hired to manage the Yankees. In this analogy, there were enough experienced baseball personnel in the front office to to limit the damage. The team was humiliated and all the other teams in baseball knew it was a bad joke, but ultimately the Yankees still remained extant.

Now we're rehiring the same 5 year old, but giving him the power to call in airstrikes when the Yankees lose a game.
 
I caught a clip of the Joe Rogan interview where they were discussing UFOs and whether or not there's aliens visiting us. Trump said:

"Area 51 or whatever is...I think it's the number one tourist attraction in the whole country or something."

Um...this guy was President of the United States. Commander in Chief of the most powerful military on the planet. Privy to classified material that may never be revealed.

And he thinks a highly classified US Air Force facility in the depths of the Nevada desert is like Disneyland? Talk about dangerously stupid...
I was surprised Rogan did very little pushback on Trump. I thought Rogan was better than that. Apparently I was wrong.
 
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