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Dem Post Mortem

Colonel Sanders said:
pood said:
Colonel Sanders said:
Politesse said:
TomC said:
What "gendered suffix problem" did Latinos want to be solved?
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Implicit exclusion of trans and non-binary people from Latino spaces. I take it you never learned how to Google? Am I your Google?
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Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this. Like it or not, the vast majority of Americans don't give a damn about any trans issues, and it's especially off putting for Latinos, who have a serious conservative streak. It's a losing cause in terms of getting and then maintaining a voter base.

The group is super vocal and sucks up a lot of air on the internet, which gives them an outsized voice. You wanna see attempted cancellation, see their psychotic and unrelenting attacks on JK Rowling. That's the epitome of the movement.

The Dems need to moderate their position on this issue e.g. we believe in equal rights for everyone, but not special rights. No more extra accommodations, no more taxpayer funded surgeries, and no more of this "There's no such thing as a man or a woman" bullshit.

If you wanna alter what you're born with, that's up to you, but not until you've reached the age of consent, and insurance companies should never be required to pay for that. It's a voluntary surgery.
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I don’t think anyone is saying “there is no such thing as a man or a woman.” They are saying something perhaps subtly but crucially different, as can be seen from P.Z Myers’ rebuttal to Jerry Coyne.

If people want to get worked up and lathered up about trans’ rights, that’s their problem.
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Yeah, sure.

The trans movement is a symbol of just how out of touch the Democrats are, but it's not just that one thing. As my Trump voting cousin told me last night, "Dude, it's all that shit."

Today we learned that Trump is appointing a Fox show host to be SecDef.

So no, it's not just some vague, nondescript random asshole's problem. It EVERYONE'S problem now.

ETA: if you've been to college in the last 10 years, you would've heard the "No such thing as a man or woman" bullshit. That nonsense got out into the public sphere. It came from the far left and was used to great effect in this election. People are fed up with it,
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It does not matter what you or I or anyone thinks. It matters what the evidence shows. PZ has the evidence and the explanation. I, personally, don’t care if science alienates a bunch of hillbillies.
 
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TomC said:
pood said:
It does not matter what your or I or anyone thinks.
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Really?
I'm not happy about the election results myself. But if it doesn't matter what anyone thinks then away we go!
Tom
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When it comes to evidence, facts, logic, and reason, it doesn’t matter what anyone believes. As recently as 1969, the medical/psychiatric establishment labeled gay people as mentally ill.
 
Excuse me, I stand corrected. The American Psychiatric Association did not remove being gay as a mental disorder until 1973, not 1969.
 
Politesse said:
Emily Lake said:
Elixir said:
Ooookay. Of course, in this case you are questioning assumptions of your own manufacture and ownership, as you are free to do.
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Question: What leads you to assume that something or someone has led Ziprhead to feel that the ads for a single specific candidate represent the views of all conservatives? Or are you just maybe assuming that for argument's sake?
I mean, just for example, don't bother answering.
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Oh FFS, follow the damned posts back. Poli made the assertion, which contained the assumptions that I was questioning. Zipr decided to jump in all on his own and give an answer to the question I asked Poli.

I have assumed nothing other than that Zipr's defense of Poli's assertion implies that Zipr *agrees* with Poli's assertion.
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If he wants to jump on your transparent attempt at a time-wasting derail, that's fine by me.
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Fuck that shit.
A straw man fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone misrepresents an opponent's argument by exaggerating, oversimplifying, or creating a distorted version of it. The arguer then attacks this distorted version of the argument, instead of the opponent's actual position.
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Fits Emily's posts to a T.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
The trans movement is a symbol of just how out of touch the Democrats are, but it's not just that one thing. As my Trump voting cousin told me last night, "Dude, it's all that shit."
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Sounds to me like you fell for the anti trans advertising the Trump campaign spent a million dollars on.
 
Because some people here seem to be incapable of understanding this concept:

Consider the word chair. Most people would tell you "chair" is a category of object types. This is a naive interpretation of the word. Most people would as a result say to the person who said "there is not really such a thing as a chair" is crazy. But there is no such thing all the same.

This is because while chair SEEMS like a category of object shapes it is not, strictly; rather, "chair" is a description of what someone needs an object FOR, and because there are many intents someone could have in asking for a "chair", there is no one meaning.

Really, people use the word "chair" as a placeholder because they either do not understand their intent clearly enough to speak it, or doing so would require too many words that are generally unnecessary for the context, or in some cases because stating their explicit intent would reveal their intent as inappropriate as an attempted end run around respect of privacy.

Of course this has come up time and again in any discussion where someone puts some ignorance on display, but here we are yet again trying to say words like "chair" refer to a fixed physical property when they refer to a wide and varying range of intents.
 
pood said:
Excuse me, I stand corrected. The American Psychiatric Association did not remove being gay as a mental disorder until 1973, not 1969.
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What people believe matters to our society. Hundreds of thousands died in excess in the US because of what they wanted to believe.

If truth mattered most, people like Trump wouldn't exist. The universe and nature will still do its thing, but we will be left with the consequences of what people believed.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
pood said:
Excuse me, I stand corrected. The American Psychiatric Association did not remove being gay as a mental disorder until 1973, not 1969.
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What people believe matters to our society. Hundreds of thousands died in excess in the US because of what they wanted to believe.

If truth mattered most, people like Trump wouldn't exist. The universe and nature will still do its thing, but we will be left with the consequences of what people believed.
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Of course, but what are we supposed to do with people who believe BS? Tell them that they’re right, just so they’ll feel good, or vote against Trump?
 
pood said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
pood said:
Excuse me, I stand corrected. The American Psychiatric Association did not remove being gay as a mental disorder until 1973, not 1969.
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What people believe matters to our society. Hundreds of thousands died in excess in the US because of what they wanted to believe.

If truth mattered most, people like Trump wouldn't exist. The universe and nature will still do its thing, but we will be left with the consequences of what people believed.
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Of course, but what are we supposed to do with people who believe BS? Tell them that they’re right, just so they’ll feel good, or vote against Trump?
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Some of it is discourse, some of it turning out, and sometimes it is simply futile, but you try anyway.

From what I've been hearing, white males are tired of being denied opportunities and are all living on the streets as minorities in this country fill all the vacancies in the blue and white collared world. How do we fix that? I really don't know. If I knew, I'd be running Presidential Campaigns.

It appears at the moment we need to see America break again (circa 2001 to 2006) before the Democrats are provided power again. The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
From what I've been hearing, white males are tired of being denied opportunities and are all living on the streets as minorities in this country fill all the vacancies in the blue and white collared world. How do we fix that? I really don't know. If I knew, I'd be running Presidential Campaigns.
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Well, a lie gets around the world before the truth gets it's pants on.

If you could solve that problem, you would win a lot more than the presidency.
 
Elixir said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
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Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
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They are also really good at blaming Democrats for the things that they themselves fuck up, and taking credit for things that they opposed and the Democrats got done. And the dumb stupid sheeple of America fall for it every time.
 
Elixir said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
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Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
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10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Elixir said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
Click to expand...
Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
Click to expand...
10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
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Right, which is a really good argument for blue-state secession. I don’t want to wait five years either. Nowhere is it set in stone that this nation must always be one nation. Also, almost one in four Americans, mostly in the red states, favor secession, according to a poll referenced by Counterpunch. The Civil War secessionists seceded for a despicable reason, but dating almost to the founding of the republic those favoring secession for any reason have pointed to the 10th amendment as justification for it, and I think regardless of the reason people invoke for secession, whether that reason is good or bad, the 10th amendment argument is a good one.
 
pood said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Elixir said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
Click to expand...
Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
Click to expand...
10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
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Right, which is a really good argument for blue-state secession.
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No... it isn't.
pood said:
I don’t want to wait five years either. Nowhere is it set in stone that this nation must always be one nation. Also, almost one in four Americans, mostly in the red states, favor secession, according to a poll referenced by Counterpunch. The Civil War secessionists seceded for a despicable reason, but dating almost to the founding of the republic those favoring secession for any reason have pointed to the 10th amendment as justification for it, and I think regardless of the reason people invoke for secession, whether that reason is good or bad, the 10th amendment argument is a good one.
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Our national economy is too intertwined to secede.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
pood said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Elixir said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
Click to expand...
Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
Click to expand...
10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
Click to expand...
Right, which is a really good argument for blue-state secession.
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No... it isn't.
pood said:
I don’t want to wait five years either. Nowhere is it set in stone that this nation must always be one nation. Also, almost one in four Americans, mostly in the red states, favor secession, according to a poll referenced by Counterpunch. The Civil War secessionists seceded for a despicable reason, but dating almost to the founding of the republic those favoring secession for any reason have pointed to the 10th amendment as justification for it, and I think regardless of the reason people invoke for secession, whether that reason is good or bad, the 10th amendment argument is a good one.
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Our national economy is too intertwined to secede.
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Well then, fine. Watch everything blow up for the next four years and pray a Democrat can be elected from the carnage, then rinse and repeat for a few more decades. This nation is dysfunctional, and the reason for the dysfunction is that it is two separate nations being held together by the band aid of addiction to an outmoded unionism.
 
pood said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
pood said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Elixir said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
Click to expand...
Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
Click to expand...
10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
Click to expand...
Right, which is a really good argument for blue-state secession.
Click to expand...
No... it isn't.
pood said:
I don’t want to wait five years either. Nowhere is it set in stone that this nation must always be one nation. Also, almost one in four Americans, mostly in the red states, favor secession, according to a poll referenced by Counterpunch. The Civil War secessionists seceded for a despicable reason, but dating almost to the founding of the republic those favoring secession for any reason have pointed to the 10th amendment as justification for it, and I think regardless of the reason people invoke for secession, whether that reason is good or bad, the 10th amendment argument is a good one.
Click to expand...
Our national economy is too intertwined to secede.
Click to expand...

Well then, fine. Watch everything blow up for the next four years and pray a Democrat can be elected from the carnage, then rinse and repeat for a few more decades. This nation is dysfunctional, and the reason for the dysfunction is that it is two separate nations being held together by the band aid of addiction to an outmoded unionism.
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Just because it sucks doesn't mean that makes secession a viable option. Politically, economically, socially, it isn't something that can be done. You can say we just need to secede, like I can say I just need to win the Indy 500. I can drive!
 
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