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Dem Post Mortem

These gender ideology nuthounds are not afraid to shout down any actual scientist they meet about how they "don't know science" because they don't believe in Jesus or Trump or whoever they follow these days...
 
I've used the word "surgical" regarding Trump's campaigning, based on the Exit Polling and who / where changed between 2020 and 2024. The term is apparently accurate.
article said:
The effort worked in concert with a separate project by the Trump campaign to depress turnout for Harris — knowing that Trump would be unlikely to drastically expand his vote totals. In 2020, Trump received about 74 million votes to Joe Biden’s 81 million votes. In 2024, Trump received a little less than 76 million votes to Harris’s 72.6 million votes. In other words, Trump’s total went up slightly, while Harris dropped about 8 million votes.

“The entire goal of the campaign was to push her numbers down,” said a top Trump campaign adviser, who like others interviewed for this story spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal strategy.

Building America’s Future tried to focus its spending where the Trump campaign’s top advisers publicly signaled an interest, investing heavily in Muslim communities that the campaign was targeting and seeking to magnify the candidate’s appearances on podcasts with significant White male audiences.

“We studied the strategy that was put in place by Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita and James Blair very closely,” Peck said. “And we did what outside groups can do. We tried to amplify and support the direction in which they were taking the earned and paid media.”

They also deployed multiple brands to place the ads, concealing their common origin — Future Coalition PAC, Duty to America PAC, Americans for Consumer Protection and Progress 2028, according to people involved.
 
The trans movement is a symbol of just how out of touch the Democrats are, but it's not just that one thing. As my Trump voting cousin told me last night, "Dude, it's all that shit."
Sounds to me like you fell for the anti trans advertising the Trump campaign spent a million dollars on.

Keep willfully misinterpreting things people didn't say and clearly had no intent to say it. It's been working really well.

I will once again refer to the transactivists who relentlessly went after JK Rowling for the most innocuous answer to a stupid fucking question.

I'll be perfectly honest: I don't care about the miniscule trans demographic as it relates to political engagement. If one wants to permanently change themself, then they can go right ahead. It's their right and none of my business. But when such a tiny group with a horribly amplified voice impairs the judgment of an entire political party, then yeah, I'm going to have something to say about it.

Courting miniscule margins while ignoring and making the largest demographics feel unwelcome, thereby helping to put an unqualified idiot in charge of nukes-----again? Yeah, I'm going to have something to say about that.

By and large, Trump supporters are reprehensible morons. Most of those people can't be saved. They're irredeemably ignorant and bad faith actors. We know that, and we've harped on it for so long and to such a degree that it's not only tiresome, it's detrimental because rather than find a viable solution, liberals have instead failed to recognize their own detachment from reality by disregarding the problems that everyone faces.

Out of touch ideals have taken precedence over practicality and IMO, it's played an important role in potentially ending our democracy.
 
Courting miniscule margins while ignoring and making the largest demographics feel unwelcome, thereby helping to put an unqualified idiot in charge of nukes-----again? Yeah, I'm going to have something to say about that.
The really sad thing is that the loudly caring voice of empathetic Dem “centrists” does nothing to ease the pain of the minorities whose plights Dem leaders like to bemoan.
All it does is strike fear into the hearts of the dim witted, confirming that the Libs want to take their shit and give it to Them.

They should have stuck with fearmongering about Right Wing misogyny; at least women have the numbers to swing an election. Advocating for brown trans illegals doesn’t move the needle, even if they get 100% of the brown trans illegal supporter vote.
 
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
Right, which is a really good argument for blue-state secession.
No... it isn't.
I don’t want to wait five years either. Nowhere is it set in stone that this nation must always be one nation. Also, almost one in four Americans, mostly in the red states, favor secession, according to a poll referenced by Counterpunch. The Civil War secessionists seceded for a despicable reason, but dating almost to the founding of the republic those favoring secession for any reason have pointed to the 10th amendment as justification for it, and I think regardless of the reason people invoke for secession, whether that reason is good or bad, the 10th amendment argument is a good one.
Our national economy is too intertwined to secede.

Well then, fine. Watch everything blow up for the next four years and pray a Democrat can be elected from the carnage, then rinse and repeat for a few more decades. This nation is dysfunctional, and the reason for the dysfunction is that it is two separate nations being held together by the band aid of addiction to an outmoded unionism.
I don’t think business as usual is much more feasible or probable as secession by blue States. Cheato will spend the next four years making sure he is never brought to account, I.e. remains Ruler for life.
 
And what does this tell you about our educational system?
Note that these schools are in Baltimore. A city run by Democrats (the mayor and all 15 council members are Democrats!) in a state run by Democrats.
Maybe that we should strengthen it, rather than destroy it, as MAGGOTS want to do?
Good idea! The educational standards have been slipping in recent years. Grade inflation, college courses covering less material because underprepared students can't keep up, villainizing of objective measures like SAT and MCAT and emphasizing subjective ones like essays or identity.

The left must face up to its own role in the problems that our education system is facing. Often it has become a venue for indoctrination by left-wing professors rather than a venue for learning and developing thinking skills. It even goes so far that universities like Columbia have been hiring left-wing terrorists like Kathy Boudin to "teach".
There are problems with our educational system. But the MAGA definition of "bias" is teaching anything that MAGA doesn't approve of. As with most of MAGA, it's jumping from the frying pan to the fire.
 
It does not matter what you or I or anyone thinks. It matters what the evidence shows. PZ has the evidence and the explanation. I, personally, don’t care if science alienates a bunch of hillbillies.
:unsure:

Per PZ...

Self-image is part of one’s biology. If it’s in our brains, how can it not be a reflection of biological reality?
This suggests that a person who has a self-image of themselves as an angel also has the biological reality of being an actual fucking angel... therefore angels and gods are real. A person who has a self-image of themselves as overweight also has the biological reality of being actually overweight, therefore anorexics should be on severe diets. A person who has a self-image of themselves as Joan of Arc reincarnated has the biological reality of being Joan of Arc. After all, it's in their brains, right? And brains can't possibly be wrong about self-image or belief...

Do people who are temporally binary, with gender fluctuating over time, change sex each time they change gender?
Sure, why not? Why can’t both sex and gender be fluid?
This is beyond stupid. PZ needs to smoke less crack or something. Seriously. You can't possibly be taking this seriously, can you? Because the implication of THIS being true is that if Joe wakes up on Sunday and feels that his fluctuating gender has changed, and Joe is now Jenny... that Jenny has now spontaneously developed a uterus, fallopian tubes, cervix, and a complete rearrangement of his internal organs, and his penis, testicals, prostate, etc. have magically atrophied overnight and disappeared.

PZ's "explanation" is magical thinking on a scale that should make Tolkein proud. It's damned near biblical.
The idea that your perception of yourself is any less removed from the reality of what you are than that of a fat person, an anorexic or anyone else, is itself an exercise in creating/maintaining the gulf between perception and reality of oneself.

I find it deeply tragicomic.
 
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
Right, which is a really good argument for blue-state secession. I don’t want to wait five years either. Nowhere is it set in stone that this nation must always be one nation. Also, almost one in four Americans, mostly in the red states, favor secession, according to a poll referenced by Counterpunch. The Civil War secessionists seceded for a despicable reason, but dating almost to the founding of the republic those favoring secession for any reason have pointed to the 10th amendment as justification for it, and I think regardless of the reason people invoke for secession, whether that reason is good or bad, the 10th amendment argument is a good one.
This is delusional.

The U.S. isn't going to let California, New York, or any other state go. It's NEVER going to happen. Also, take a gander at the military bases up and down the west coast. From San Diego up to SF, the coast is littered with naval firepower that could immediately be brought to bear. JRTC is near Barstow. They could have full armored brigades on the ground in SoCal within days. Furthermore, the police would be effectively utilized to violently quell civil unrest.

There isn't going to be some popular uprising. Few liberals own guns anyway and they certainly aren't organized into survivalist militias; and even if they were, look how the Taliban fared against the U.S. military. And they were armed by Pakistan, with direct paths into and out of the country.

The Tenth Amendment? What makes you think the Trump government gives the slightest shit about what the Constitution says? They blow their noses and wipe their asses with it. It means nothing. Even if they did bother with looking at the 10th Amendment, it doesn't apply to secession anyway. It applies to commerce, family law, and policing activities (for the most part). It sure as hell doesn't provide for peaceful secession.

SCOTUS ruled in 1869 that the states have an "indissoluble relation[ship]" with the [United States]. See Texas v. White.

If you're referring to using their state's rights argument against them, well, that's a useless exercise in pedantry.
 
I want to offer some more thoughts on this topic.
Let's talk about lawfare - weaponizing criminal and civil law to go after Trump. I think Dems' efforts to destroy Trump by legal means actually made him more popular and contributed to his victory.

There were a couple of good cases against Trump that should have been pursued. The fake elector case and the documents case.

But what do Dems do? They lead with the weakest case, about hush money to a porn star.
We have the DA who infamously reduces armed robberies to misdemeanor theft, but who invented novel legal theories to upgrade expired misdemeanor record keeping charges into 34 felony counts.
Lead with? They were independent actions, not a queue. The hush money case is simply the one he was least able to obstruct. And what was weak about it? The payment existed. The campaign reporting laws required them to be reported, they weren't. The law exists specifically for going after those who cover up improper financial transactions, what's so wrong about using it to go after someone who did exactly that. I do have a problem with it being civil, though.

Then there is the civil suit over rape charges. EJC could not even recall the year this supposed rape happened, much less produce any evidence, and yet a NYC jury found him liable. The case should have been dismissed from the jump, especially since EJC first made her accusation when she was selling a misandrist book, named "What do we need men for?".
Once again, a case where there's no way he could have been convicted had he not incriminated himself in defending himself. Before he came along my position was that long ago rapes were virtually certain not to be provable--but twice now we have had high profile defendants who have convinced me of their guilt. The women didn't prove to me that they were raped, the defendants convinced me that they raped the women. He even brags about grab them by the pussy--that is at a minimum sexual assault and if there's any penetration that's rape.

There are other things. A Colorado court trying to boot Trump off the ballot based on an interpretation of 14th Amendment, Section 3.
That's a problem with the 14th. I don't like what Colorado did, but the 14th doesn't define a standard of proof. It needs fixing. That can only be fixed by a constitutional amendment or by SCOTUS yeeting it as insufficiently defined.
 
The GOP is just so damn good at lying to the people.
Take heart. They’re also really good at fucking things up. This will be a master class in that.
10,000+ US soilders were killed or maimed in Iraq, over 100,000 Iraqis died, millions permanently displaced. Our derivatives fuck-up dragged the global economy into the shitter. The MAGA wing took Covid so poorly, it helped kill hundreds of thousand more people. I've seen how expansive their fuck ups can be. I don't want to wait five years for everything to collapse, just so the Democrats can regain power, kind of get things back in line and then the GOP given back power because of fucking pronouns that some people just can seem to manage.
Right, which is a really good argument for blue-state secession. I don’t want to wait five years either. Nowhere is it set in stone that this nation must always be one nation. Also, almost one in four Americans, mostly in the red states, favor secession, according to a poll referenced by Counterpunch. The Civil War secessionists seceded for a despicable reason, but dating almost to the founding of the republic those favoring secession for any reason have pointed to the 10th amendment as justification for it, and I think regardless of the reason people invoke for secession, whether that reason is good or bad, the 10th amendment argument is a good one.
This is delusional.

The U.S. isn't going to let California, New York, or any other state go. It's NEVER going to happen. Also, take a gander at the military bases up and down the west coast. From San Diego up to SF, the coast is littered with naval firepower that could immediately be brought to bear. JRTC is near Barstow. They could have full armored brigades on the ground in SoCal within days. Furthermore, the police would be effectively utilized to violently quell civil unrest.

There isn't going to be some popular uprising. Few liberals own guns anyway and they certainly aren't organized into survivalist militias; and even if they were, look how the Taliban fared against the U.S. military. And they were armed by Pakistan, with direct paths into and out of the country.

The Tenth Amendment? What makes you think the Trump government gives the slightest shit about what the Constitution says? They blow their noses and wipe their asses with it. It means nothing. Even if they did bother with looking at the 10th Amendment, it doesn't apply to secession anyway. It applies to commerce, family law, and policing activities (for the most part). It sure as hell doesn't provide for peaceful secession.

SCOTUS ruled in 1869 that the states have an "indissoluble relation[ship]" with the [United States]. See Texas v. White.

If you're referring to using their state's rights argument against them, well, that's a useless exercise in pedantry.

None of this is referring to what I am talking about. As I said at least twice now, my idea of secession is peaceful dissolution of the union, which would have to begin with ordinances of secession. Lincoln himself said that the union could break up provided all parties to the compact agreed to this. Many red states have expressed an interest in secession. As for the 1869 Supreme Court decision, I don’t give a rat’s ass what the court says, because these courts have issued doozies like Dred Scott and overturning Roe V. Wade. As Lincoln again said, a decision of the court is not a “Thus saith the Lord.” But in any event, the 1869 decision, so far as I know, did not address the issue of peaceful dissolution by all parties to the compact.
 
This is delusional.

The U.S. isn't going to let California, New York, or any other state go. It's NEVER going to happen. Also, take a gander at the military bases up and down the west coast. From San Diego up to SF, the coast is littered with naval firepower that could immediately be brought to bear. JRTC is near Barstow. They could have full armored brigades on the ground in SoCal within days. Furthermore, the police would be effectively utilized to violently quell civil unrest.

There isn't going to be some popular uprising. Few liberals own guns anyway and they certainly aren't organized into survivalist militias; and even if they were, look how the Taliban fared against the U.S. military. And they were armed by Pakistan, with direct paths into and out of the country.

The Tenth Amendment? What makes you think the Trump government gives the slightest shit about what the Constitution says? They blow their noses and wipe their asses with it. It means nothing. Even if they did bother with looking at the 10th Amendment, it doesn't apply to secession anyway. It applies to commerce, family law, and policing activities (for the most part). It sure as hell doesn't provide for peaceful secession.

SCOTUS ruled in 1869 that the states have an "indissoluble relation[ship]" with the [United States]. See Texas v. White.

If you're referring to using their state's rights argument against them, well, that's a useless exercise in pedantry.

None of this is referring to what I am talking about. As I said at least twice now, my idea of secession is peaceful dissolution of the union, which would have to begin with ordinances of secession.
Peaceful dissolution is as ridiculous a concept as the Libertarian Party. California was purchased *cough* from Mexico by the US Government, as was most of the county in the Louisiana Purchase. The domain over the land is undoubtedly Federal.
As for the 1869 Supreme Court decision, I don’t give a rat’s ass what the court says, because these courts have issued doozies like Dred Scott and overturning Roe V. Wade.
It must be nice to arbitrarily decide what you will and won't think that matters when it comes to Constitutional Law.
As Lincoln again said, a decision of the court is not a “Thus saith the Lord.” But in any event, the 1869 decision, so far as I know, did not address the issue of peaceful dissolution by all parties to the compact.
Even Massachusetts would have issues with a "peaceful" separation from the country, internally. Outside, the Red States need the Blue States. Much in the way the Blue States need the Red States. People aren't going to stand by and watch one half or more of the national GDP leave.
 
This is delusional.

The U.S. isn't going to let California, New York, or any other state go. It's NEVER going to happen. Also, take a gander at the military bases up and down the west coast. From San Diego up to SF, the coast is littered with naval firepower that could immediately be brought to bear. JRTC is near Barstow. They could have full armored brigades on the ground in SoCal within days. Furthermore, the police would be effectively utilized to violently quell civil unrest.

There isn't going to be some popular uprising. Few liberals own guns anyway and they certainly aren't organized into survivalist militias; and even if they were, look how the Taliban fared against the U.S. military. And they were armed by Pakistan, with direct paths into and out of the country.

The Tenth Amendment? What makes you think the Trump government gives the slightest shit about what the Constitution says? They blow their noses and wipe their asses with it. It means nothing. Even if they did bother with looking at the 10th Amendment, it doesn't apply to secession anyway. It applies to commerce, family law, and policing activities (for the most part). It sure as hell doesn't provide for peaceful secession.

SCOTUS ruled in 1869 that the states have an "indissoluble relation[ship]" with the [United States]. See Texas v. White.

If you're referring to using their state's rights argument against them, well, that's a useless exercise in pedantry.

None of this is referring to what I am talking about. As I said at least twice now, my idea of secession is peaceful dissolution of the union, which would have to begin with ordinances of secession.
Peaceful dissolution is as ridiculous a concept as the Libertarian Party. California was purchased *cough* from Mexico by the US Government,

California and the entire American southwest was stolen from Mexico in an illegitimate war deprecated by Lincoln.
as was most of the county in the Louisiana Purchase. The domain over the land is undoubtedly Federal.

The Louisiana purchase was divided into territories. Those territories later had to decide whether they wanted to be states or not.
As for the 1869 Supreme Court decision, I don’t give a rat’s ass what the court says, because these courts have issued doozies like Dred Scott and overturning Roe V. Wade.
It must be nice to arbitrarily decide what you will and won't think that matters when it comes to Constitutional Law.

I guess you must think the repeal of Roe v. Wade is just hunky-dory, and the Dred Scott decision for that matter, which held that black people had no rights that the government was bound to recognize. You might have noticed that SC decisions can be overturned, as with, *cough* Roe v. Wade.
As Lincoln again said, a decision of the court is not a “Thus saith the Lord.” But in any event, the 1869 decision, so far as I know, did not address the issue of peaceful dissolution by all parties to the compact.
Even Massachusetts would have issues with a "peaceful" separation from the country, internally. Outside, the Red States need the Blue States.
I know. Too bad they don’t know that. We subsidize them.
Much in the way the Blue States need the Red States.
No, they don’t.
People aren't going to stand by and watch one half or more of the national GDP leave.

Leave that up to the people. I’m not calling for a civil war, but a national dialogue on peaceful separation, which a great many in the Red States are in favor of.
 
Instead of forwarding reasonable ideas, the GOP floats emotional appeals and "-y" versions of science, education, and intelligence, things that "cargo cult" actual reason. This works because, and I hate to say this, most people derive their knowledge from social trust rather than vigorous applications of doubt. Sadly, this is true even for the majority of intelligent folks who get through academia: they trust their teachers and educators, trusting in yet more "priests" in a stranger church.
Yup. Realistically, you have to--but inspect your priests. And compare what they say to what other priests say, especially hostile priests.

Consider the moon landings. Faked? Russia certainly was in a position to tell and if they had been faked Russia would have been shouting it from the rooftops. The fact they didn't do so makes it very clear they had nothing to show they were fake. You don't need the knowledge of the various disciplines to figure it out.

(And if you have enough knowledge of various fields you can see they couldn't have been faked with the technology of the era. There are multiple aspects of it that Hollywood still could not do without using computers to generate much of it. The scenes on the lunar surface are actually easier because the suits are so bulky but you still need an insane vacuum chamber to be able to get the light right.)

Sure, the doctrine is better because many are not really priests, but for most it's still just doctrine and dogma of a different flavor.

It is far easier to avoid ending up like that when someone only allows social elements to influence them a little bit, when society can only inform rather than steer. I would assume this is why, if you were to ever actually meet the majority of people who build our technology, there is going to be at least 1-3 "one in a thousand" atypical working among a team of 9 or fewer.

This is overrepresentation by a few orders of magnitude, and I expect similar rates among instructors of any social-agnostic subjects.
It's worse than that--the important stuff is actually understood at a one in millions level. Most of us can only apply what the few developed. It's always been that way--look at the scientific greats of history. Much of it is obvious once it's been explained, but to figure it out in the first place takes a very unusual mind.

The social "trust" aspect of most people's "knowledge" has, in fact, been one of the most frustrating aspects of the majority of discussions I have on topics that interest me. This has consistently been the final reason that shuts down discussion: their trust combined with a distaste for verification, because verification is hard, and construed as a social attack.
In many cases verification isn't all that hard--just compare what both sides say. But it's still harder than believing the answer you want.

We clearly need something like that, because it's impossible and impossibly costly to guarantee everyone is really learning to be educated rather than learning to be "religious" in some way. For what it's worth, blind trust in something true actually allows faster response to myriad situations -- verification takes time and effort every time, which is not generally going to be available.

What this really comes down to is that asshole speaking against those who are educated enough to see through his bullshit.
Yup, which is why the scientific community works--the people trust that the fakes won't stand the test of time. Unfortunately, it's not so reliable in the shorter term, it takes time for the fakes to be exposed.
 
California and the entire American southwest was stolen from Mexico in an illegitimate war deprecated by Lincoln.
In fairness, Mexico stole it first.
Great thing about EuroChristians colonialism.

When they steal stuff it remains theirs forever. Because they stole it according to the Christian culture of the day!
Tom
 
This is delusional.

The U.S. isn't going to let California, New York, or any other state go. It's NEVER going to happen. Also, take a gander at the military bases up and down the west coast. From San Diego up to SF, the coast is littered with naval firepower that could immediately be brought to bear. JRTC is near Barstow. They could have full armored brigades on the ground in SoCal within days. Furthermore, the police would be effectively utilized to violently quell civil unrest.

There isn't going to be some popular uprising. Few liberals own guns anyway and they certainly aren't organized into survivalist militias; and even if they were, look how the Taliban fared against the U.S. military. And they were armed by Pakistan, with direct paths into and out of the country.

The Tenth Amendment? What makes you think the Trump government gives the slightest shit about what the Constitution says? They blow their noses and wipe their asses with it. It means nothing. Even if they did bother with looking at the 10th Amendment, it doesn't apply to secession anyway. It applies to commerce, family law, and policing activities (for the most part). It sure as hell doesn't provide for peaceful secession.

SCOTUS ruled in 1869 that the states have an "indissoluble relation[ship]" with the [United States]. See Texas v. White.

If you're referring to using their state's rights argument against them, well, that's a useless exercise in pedantry.

None of this is referring to what I am talking about. As I said at least twice now, my idea of secession is peaceful dissolution of the union, which would have to begin with ordinances of secession.
Peaceful dissolution is as ridiculous a concept as the Libertarian Party. California was purchased *cough* from Mexico by the US Government,

California and the entire American southwest was stolen from Mexico in an illegitimate war deprecated by Lincoln.
1) You'll notice the inclusion of *cough* in my statement.
2) The Mexican Cessation was a President Polk thing, not a Lincoln thing. Lincoln wasn't even in any form of office yet.
as was most of the county in the Louisiana Purchase. The domain over the land is undoubtedly Federal.
The Louisiana purchase was divided into territories. Those territories later had to decide whether they wanted to be states or not.
The point was that the US purchased it, which gives the Federal Government domain over it. The State of North Dakota didn't buy itself from the United States. It is just a border.
As for the 1869 Supreme Court decision, I don’t give a rat’s ass what the court says, because these courts have issued doozies like Dred Scott and overturning Roe V. Wade.
It must be nice to arbitrarily decide what you will and won't think that matters when it comes to Constitutional Law.
I guess you must think the repeal of Roe v. Wade is just hunky-dory, and the Dred Scott decision for that matter, which held that black people had no rights that the government was bound to recognize. You might have noticed that SC decisions can be overturned, as with, *cough* Roe v. Wade.
I think each case needs to be looked upon within its own context and how it flows with the rest of Constitutional Law. You can't flip off 19th Century Constitutional Law and justify such a decision by referencing Dobbs.
As Lincoln again said, a decision of the court is not a “Thus saith the Lord.” But in any event, the 1869 decision, so far as I know, did not address the issue of peaceful dissolution by all parties to the compact.
Even Massachusetts would have issues with a "peaceful" separation from the country, internally. Outside, the Red States need the Blue States.
I know. Too bad they don’t know that. We subsidize them.
Much in the way the Blue States need the Red States.
No, they don’t.
As long as we don't want to eat and heat our homes, you might have a point.
People aren't going to stand by and watch one half or more of the national GDP leave.
Leave that up to the people. I’m not calling for a civil war, but a national dialogue on peaceful separation, which a great many in the Red States are in favor of.
You are calling for whimsical fantasy.
 
There are problems with our educational system. But the MAGA definition of "bias" is teaching anything that MAGA doesn't approve of. As with most of MAGA, it's jumping from the frying pan to the fire.
I understand. MAGAs suck. But so do left-wing radicals. This is a thread about the "Dem Post Mortem" which is about where the Democrats went wrong, not only during the 2024 campaign but more generally in recent years . A circle jerk about how much MAGAs suck (and which most of us agree with on here) is not really relevant to this exercise, nor is it helpful to improving the Democratic Party.

And when for example Seattle or California pass standards where they politicize even math education or ban early algebra, that belies the claims that the left is pro-education while the right is against it.
Seattle Schools Lead Controversial Push to ‘Rehumanize’ Math
Education Week said:
The Seattle school district is planning to infuse all K-12 math classes with ethnic-studies questions that encourage students to explore how math has been “appropriated” by Western culture and used in systems of power and oppression, a controversial move that puts the district at the forefront of a movement to “rehumanize” math.
California Tries to Close the Gap in Math, but Sets Off a Backlash
NY Times said:
The California guidelines, which are not binding, could overhaul the way many school districts approach math instruction. The draft rejected the idea of naturally gifted children, recommended against shifting certain students into accelerated courses in middle school and tried to promote high-level math courses that could serve as alternatives to calculus, like data science or statistics.
The draft also suggested that math should not be colorblind and that teachers could use lessons to explore social justice — for example, by looking out for gender stereotypes in word problems, or applying math concepts to topics like immigration or inequality.
About the only good part of it is that is emphasizes statistics and data science. It should not come at the expense of calculus though, but instead of nonsense like talking about "immigration or inequality" in math class.
 
There are problems with our educational system. But the MAGA definition of "bias" is teaching anything that MAGA doesn't approve of. As with most of MAGA, it's jumping from the frying pan to the fire.
I understand. MAGAs suck. But so do left-wing radicals.
MAGAs are being nominated to several Cabinet positions in Trump's Administration. RFK Jr as the fucking HHS Secretary. Granted, a good deal of his bullshit has more Venn overlap with the far left, but the Democrats would never have put him in charge of a food stand, let alone the Department of Health and Human Services!

And when for example Seattle or California pass standards where they politicize even math education or ban early algebra, that belies the claims that the left is pro-education while the right is against it.
I can only speak to what I've seen with my nieces and my daughter and math is more involved and better suited for critical thinking than it was 25 years ago. And 25 years ago, it wasn't that bad.
Seattle Schools Lead Controversial Push to ‘Rehumanize’ Math
Education Week said:
The Seattle school district is planning to infuse all K-12 math classes with ethnic-studies questions that encourage students to explore how math has been “appropriated” by Western culture and used in systems of power and oppression, a controversial move that puts the district at the forefront of a movement to “rehumanize” math.
California Tries to Close the Gap in Math, but Sets Off a Backlash
NY Times said:
The California guidelines, which are not binding, could overhaul the way many school districts approach math instruction. The draft rejected the idea of naturally gifted children, recommended against shifting certain students into accelerated courses in middle school and tried to promote high-level math courses that could serve as alternatives to calculus, like data science or statistics.
The shifting of smart kids outside of classrooms isn't thought of being a great idea anymore. That doesn't mean the school doesn't enrich the talented in reading and/or math. I can attest to that personally / anecdotally.
NY Times said:
The draft also suggested that math should not be colorblind and that teachers could use lessons to explore social justice — for example, by looking out for gender stereotypes in word problems, or applying math concepts to topics like immigration or inequality.
This doesn't say what you think it says. It means Carlos is going to count apples. Amy is breaking bananas up into dozens. Ahmed is on a train going from Albany, NY to somewhere better than Albany, NY.
NY Times said:
About the only good part of it is that is emphasizes statistics and data science. It should not come at the expense of calculus though, but instead of nonsense like talking about "immigration or inequality" in math class.
You are reading too deeply into some of this. They aren't getting rid of Calculus. They are allowing the kids that aren't going to be doing the harder maths, to focus on other maths. This isn't about supplanting calculus with word problems on cultural appropriation.
 
Great thing about EuroChristians colonialism.
When they steal stuff it remains theirs forever. Because they stole it according to the Christian culture of the day!
Tom
People have been conquering each other's territories since time immemorial. That's neither unique to European societies nor to Christian ones.
Including various Amerindian tribes and societies. You don't think Mexica/Aztec empire was just dropped in place from above, do you?

Ottomans conquered Constantinople in 1453. Are they "EuroChristian" too? Should they give it back to the rightful owners?
 
MAGAs are being nominated to several Cabinet positions in Trump's Administration. RFK Jr as the fucking HHS Secretary. Granted, a good deal of his bullshit has more Venn overlap with the far left, but the Democrats would never have put him in charge of a food stand, let alone the Department of Health and Human Services!
No disagreement here, but this is not the thread for this. There is already a thread on Trump's appointments, and several on the aftermath of the Trump victory more generally. This thread is about "Dem Post Mortem", i.e. analyzing where Dems went wrong and how things can be fixed for 2026 and 2028.
I can only speak to what I've seen with my nieces and my daughter and math is more involved and better suited for critical thinking than it was 25 years ago. And 25 years ago, it wasn't that bad.
I do not see much evidence of that. I do some tutoring on the side, and critical thinking skills are lacking. For most students, if they have not seen the very same problem before, they struggle to apply the concepts they have learned to a problem that is differently stated. And don't get me on the overuse of calculators. I've even caught one student type in "*1" because the equation had a factor that happened to be 1. Just to be sure, I guess. :rolleyesa:

A lot of that has to do with educational deficiencies during COVID lockdowns, but things like lower standards and grade inflation have a lot to do with it too. Teachers and schools just expect less from students these days.
My experience is in urban/suburban Atlanta. City of Atlanta schools and DeKalb County Schools mostly. Where do your daughter and nieces go to school?
I also had a student that went to a fancy private high school. It was the opposite. The AP Calculus class was broken down into two parts - the first was looking at PreCalc material from a new perspective (heavily focused on transformations and coordinate system manipulation) and the calculus material itself was accelerated since you only had one semester to cover two. Contrast that with Mrs. Nash's AP Physics class in a public DeKalb school where she managed to teach one semester worth of physics in two, resulting in her students not taking the AP exam because she just did not cover half the material.
The kicker is - there is no reason why public schools cannot implement challenging classes with good teachers. Other than politics because it goes against the ideas of "equity" especially when wrong kids (i.e. white and Asian ones) make the cut at rates more than the politicians want.
That was the reason why Bill deBlowjob wanted to nix public schools like Stuyvesant admitting students based on merit.
Asian Groups See Bias in Plan to Diversify New York’s Elite Schools
The shifting of smart kids outside of classrooms isn't thought of being a great idea anymore. That doesn't mean the school doesn't enrich the talented in reading and/or math. I can attest to that personally / anecdotally.
What do you mean "shifting ... outside of classrooms"? They'd still be in classrooms, but it is a good idea for students to take classes based on ability, rather than lumping everybody in the same classrooms. Whetehr or not that is fashionable in certain circles or not.
This doesn't say what you think it says. It means Carlos is going to count apples. Amy is breaking bananas up into dozens. Ahmed is on a train going from Albany, NY to somewhere better than Albany, NY.
What do you even mean by this example?
You are reading too deeply into some of this. They aren't getting rid of Calculus. They are allowing the kids that aren't going to be doing the harder maths, to focus on other maths. This isn't about supplanting calculus with word problems on cultural appropriation.
I did not say they were getting rid of it. Although they might, just like they tried getting rid of 8th grade algebra. But they are certainly deemphasizing it and instead emphasizing inserting leftist politics into math class.
Also, I did not know you were British.
 
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