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Dem Post Mortem

thebeave said:
robnisch said:
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
Loren Pechtel said:
thebeave said:
Trans people can integrate into society without a problem, about 95% of the time. Its the 5% that are the issue. Namely, getting a free pass into women's spaces, like sports, restrooms/gyms, prisons and the like. Its not trivial to dismiss those concerns, as some people keep insisting.
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And what are they supposed to do about the bathroom? If you say you can't be trans in the bathroom what are they supposed to do?
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Yawn... at our PUBLIC pool, a remodel was done about 18 years ago. Prior, there was a men's locker room and a women's locker room plus a couple of bare-bones toilet/sink tiny bathrooms. I don't recall the config right after the remodel, but now we have men's and women's locker rooms, a couple of toilet/sink bathrooms and 2 clearly marked "all gender" changing/locker rooms/bathrooms. Those can be locked from the inside and are used mostly by families (e.g. dad comes in with two toddler daughters and isn't comfortable bringing them into the men's locker room.)
But ANYONE unsure of which locker rooms they belong in, or afraid that someone is in the locker room of their designated gender who they don't think belongs there, is FREE TO OPT OUT OF THE MEN'S OR WOMEN'S LOCKER ROOMS and use an "all gender" one instead.
I have never once heard a word of complaint about anyone being where they are not wanted or don't belong. In 28 years.
But that doesn't keep the neurotic right from making it a top-of-mind issue for their robotic voters.
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That, of course, is the ideal solution. And going forward in new construction, we should be using that model for bathrooms in all buildings, wherever feasible. I don't think the "neurotic right" has a problem with that. The problem is for older construction that doesn't have a separate "all/any gender" bathroom. A lot of women don't feel safe or are self conscious about having a male strutting around and swinging his dick in their private space, and I don't blame them. Don't you care about their feelings in the matter?
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Yeah sure. … retrofits might be difficult, but not in places like airports (take out ONE Cinnabon store for crissakes) or malls.
Most high traffic public places should be able to handle it.
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Please, god, no...not Cinnabon! I could see sacrificing a Hot Dog on a Stick though. And what is this thing you call..."mall"?

Its almost never easy or inexpensive adding a bathroom after the fact. You have to tap into a hot and cold water source from somewhere nearby, and that means tearing up floors, walls and/or ceilings and patching and painting them back up again. Drains too, which can be even more of a problem, as you have to have the drain slope towards its destination at 1/4" per foot. If you're a small business having to add an extra bathroom, the cost is likely prohibitive.
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Um, last time I ate out the place had one bathroom. It had a lock that said occupied/ open. It seemed like it worked just fine. Minimal cost to owner.
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Yes, that works fine for a small business with few customers.
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And larger businesses can have more of them.
Our WalMart has two YUUUGE bathrooms (assuming the women’s is as large as the Men’s. I’ve been in their men’s room like, twice, ever. It doesn’t seem to get much use. They could fairly easily steal a few feet from each of the existing to create a small one for trans or non-binary whatevers, without having to run lines more than a few feet.
 
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Elixir said:
Politesse said:
papers like the NY Times that were around for both periods hated/loved Hitler just as much and in the same way that they hate/love Trump.
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We can only hope that Trump does as much for America as Hitler did for Germany.
🙄
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Be careful what you wish for. Hitler set up Germany to become the most powerful and influential European nation, and it still is.
 
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
robnisch said:
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
Loren Pechtel said:
thebeave said:
Trans people can integrate into society without a problem, about 95% of the time. Its the 5% that are the issue. Namely, getting a free pass into women's spaces, like sports, restrooms/gyms, prisons and the like. Its not trivial to dismiss those concerns, as some people keep insisting.
Click to expand...
And what are they supposed to do about the bathroom? If you say you can't be trans in the bathroom what are they supposed to do?
Click to expand...
Yawn... at our PUBLIC pool, a remodel was done about 18 years ago. Prior, there was a men's locker room and a women's locker room plus a couple of bare-bones toilet/sink tiny bathrooms. I don't recall the config right after the remodel, but now we have men's and women's locker rooms, a couple of toilet/sink bathrooms and 2 clearly marked "all gender" changing/locker rooms/bathrooms. Those can be locked from the inside and are used mostly by families (e.g. dad comes in with two toddler daughters and isn't comfortable bringing them into the men's locker room.)
But ANYONE unsure of which locker rooms they belong in, or afraid that someone is in the locker room of their designated gender who they don't think belongs there, is FREE TO OPT OUT OF THE MEN'S OR WOMEN'S LOCKER ROOMS and use an "all gender" one instead.
I have never once heard a word of complaint about anyone being where they are not wanted or don't belong. In 28 years.
But that doesn't keep the neurotic right from making it a top-of-mind issue for their robotic voters.
Click to expand...
That, of course, is the ideal solution. And going forward in new construction, we should be using that model for bathrooms in all buildings, wherever feasible. I don't think the "neurotic right" has a problem with that. The problem is for older construction that doesn't have a separate "all/any gender" bathroom. A lot of women don't feel safe or are self conscious about having a male strutting around and swinging his dick in their private space, and I don't blame them. Don't you care about their feelings in the matter?
Click to expand...
Yeah sure. … retrofits might be difficult, but not in places like airports (take out ONE Cinnabon store for crissakes) or malls.
Most high traffic public places should be able to handle it.
Click to expand...
Please, god, no...not Cinnabon! I could see sacrificing a Hot Dog on a Stick though. And what is this thing you call..."mall"?

Its almost never easy or inexpensive adding a bathroom after the fact. You have to tap into a hot and cold water source from somewhere nearby, and that means tearing up floors, walls and/or ceilings and patching and painting them back up again. Drains too, which can be even more of a problem, as you have to have the drain slope towards its destination at 1/4" per foot. If you're a small business having to add an extra bathroom, the cost is likely prohibitive.
Click to expand...
Um, last time I ate out the place had one bathroom. It had a lock that said occupied/ open. It seemed like it worked just fine. Minimal cost to owner.
Click to expand...
Yes, that works fine for a small business with few customers.
Click to expand...
And larger businesses can have more of them.
Our WalMart has two YUUUGE bathrooms (assuming the women’s is as large as the Men’s. I’ve been in their men’s room like, twice, ever. It doesn’t seem to get much use. They could fairly easily steal a few feet from each of the existing to create a small one for trans or non-binary whatevers, without having to run lines more than a few feet.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. If they're sneaky, they could sacrifice the baby changing station in the men's room so that the husbands can say, "Here, honey. You'll have to change Junior. There's no changing station in the men's room."
 
Politesse said:
Be careful what you wish for. Hitler set up Germany to become the most powerful and influential European nation, and it still is.
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Do you know anyone who lived there while Hitler was working such wonders?
I did, as a child. It was a real picnic by their description. /facetious
I won’t be around to enjoy the reparations that will bring America back to being on par with Haiti in the distant future. For the remainder of my expected lifespan it will be the biggest shithole I ever lived in.
 
thebeave said:
Perhaps. If they're sneaky, they could sacrifice the baby changing station in the men's room so that the husbands can say, "Here, honey. You'll have to change Junior. There's no changing station in the men's room
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I sincerely doubt that there are many businesses willing to tangle with women power to that extent.
Take out baby changing stations? Yeah right.
Tom
 
Elixir said:
Politesse said:
Be careful what you wish for. Hitler set up Germany to become the most powerful and influential European nation, and it still is.
Click to expand...
Do you know anyone who lived there while Hitler was working such wonders?
I did, as a child. It was a real picnic by their description. /facetious
I won’t be around to enjoy the reparations that will bring America back to being on par with Haiti in the distant future. For the remainder of my expected lifespan it will be the biggest shithole I ever lived in.
Click to expand...
Hence, be careful what you wish for. Historical "greatness" is not always paired with justice.
 
Politesse said:
Elixir said:
Politesse said:
Be careful what you wish for. Hitler set up Germany to become the most powerful and influential European nation, and it still is.
Click to expand...
Do you know anyone who lived there while Hitler was working such wonders?
I did, as a child. It was a real picnic by their description. /facetious
I won’t be around to enjoy the reparations that will bring America back to being on par with Haiti in the distant future. For the remainder of my expected lifespan it will be the biggest shithole I ever lived in.
Click to expand...
Hence, be careful what you wish for. Historical "greatness" is not always paired with justice.
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What exactly are you implying that I wish for? Did I misplace the /facetious tag?
 
TomC said:
thebeave said:
Perhaps. If they're sneaky, they could sacrifice the baby changing station in the men's room so that the husbands can say, "Here, honey. You'll have to change Junior. There's no changing station in the men's room
Click to expand...
I sincerely doubt that there are many businesses willing to tangle with women power to that extent.
Take out baby changing stations? Yeah right.
Tom
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Well, as I said, you do have to be sneaky about it. Maybe make up some construction-babble complicated reason as to why it can only go where the baby changing station is, and hope they don't check up on you.
 
thebeave said:
TomC said:
thebeave said:
Perhaps. If they're sneaky, they could sacrifice the baby changing station in the men's room so that the husbands can say, "Here, honey. You'll have to change Junior. There's no changing station in the men's room
Click to expand...
I sincerely doubt that there are many businesses willing to tangle with women power to that extent.
Take out baby changing stations? Yeah right.
Tom
Click to expand...
Well, as I said, you do have to be sneaky about it. Maybe make up some construction-babble complicated reason as to why it can only go where the baby changing station is, and hope they don't check up on you.
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I believe that you are underestimating the mothers out there.
Someone mansplaining why hubby can't change the baby won't end well, lemme tell ya.
Tom
 
TomC said:
thebeave said:
Perhaps. If they're sneaky, they could sacrifice the baby changing station in the men's room so that the husbands can say, "Here, honey. You'll have to change Junior. There's no changing station in the men's room
Click to expand...
I sincerely doubt that there are many businesses willing to tangle with women power to that extent.
Take out baby changing stations? Yeah right.
Tom
Click to expand...
The baby changing stations in our pool locker rooms take up almost zero room when folded up, and only a few sq ft when in use. They even have ‘em in the “all gender” rooms. Not an issue.
 
Elixir said:
TomC said:
thebeave said:
Perhaps. If they're sneaky, they could sacrifice the baby changing station in the men's room so that the husbands can say, "Here, honey. You'll have to change Junior. There's no changing station in the men's room
Click to expand...
I sincerely doubt that there are many businesses willing to tangle with women power to that extent.
Take out baby changing stations? Yeah right.
Tom
Click to expand...
The baby changing stations in our pool locker rooms take up almost zero room when folded up, and only a few sq ft when in use. They even have ‘em in the “all gender” rooms. Not an issue.
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:pouting:I thought you were on my side. Oh well. Why do I care, anyway, I don't have any babies to change. My breeding days are over.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
There's no critical thinking skills involved in the lightweight white knighting self-hatred that so many liberals just can't seem to get enough of.
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It doesn't really count as self-hatred when the whole point is to other the society you're using as a punching bag.
 
Elixir said:
Emily Lake said:
pood said:
Emily Lake said:
It's just as real as astrological cusps, who vary between Aries and Taurus day by day, and who present their personalities as inconsistent interpretations of how those signs rule their lives.
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No, it not the same as astrology at all. Transgender and gender fluid are real people in the real world whether you like it or not.
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Capricorns and Sagittarians are real people in the real world too.
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Do you have problems with them like you do with trans and gay people?
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Can you quote Emily having problems with trans and gay people?

ObOnTopic: How's the whole "Motivate people to turn out for your candidate by trumping up baseless ad hominems against them" strategy working out?
 
Bomb#20 said:
Colonel Sanders said:
There's no critical thinking skills involved in the lightweight white knighting self-hatred that so many liberals just can't seem to get enough of.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really count as self-hatred when the whole point is to other the society you're using as a punching bag.
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I used Tiananmen Square as an example. It's one that especially stands out to me because for some reason, modern Americans, young people in particular just can't help themselves from shitting on America via a well documented massacre by some other country.

But I suppose discussing what happened there is "Othering" the entire nation of China and all the people within it, rather than it being an example of violent tyranny that can be discussed on its own merits.

As an aside: "Othering." There's about 8% of American that aren't absolutely fucking sick of terms like that.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
I used Tiananmen Square as an example. It's one that especially stands out to me because for some reason, modern Americans, young people in particular just can't help themselves from shitting on America via a well documented massacre by some other country.
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Can you provide a single example of this... "example"... actually ocurring in the real world? I've never heard any American defend the massacre at Tiananmen Square. Certainly not any American politician.
 
thebeave said:
Swammerdami said:
thebeave said:
Its almost never easy or inexpensive adding a bathroom after the fact. You have to tap into a hot and cold water source from somewhere nearby, and that means tearing up floors, walls and/or ceilings and patching and painting them back up again. Drains too, which can be even more of a problem, as you have to have the drain slope towards its destination at 1/4" per foot. If you're a small business having to add an extra bathroom, the cost is likely prohibitive.
Click to expand...

A small water heater, if necessary at all, can be purchased for less than $200. And a few public restrooms would be enough; no need for every small business to have one. (There's a number-of-employees threshold for applying rules to small businesses. Perhaps some of those thresholds should be raised anyway.)
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Well, sure that would work. But you will need a new electric circuit added in (possibly 220V) or a gas line, both of which could be as much, if not more, trouble than adding a hot water pipe. In a mall or airport you can have centrally located bathrooms, but that won't work for a standalone building.
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These little Bosch units are great. I installed one once. 120V plug in. Perfect for just a sink. Or in a state where they route the water supply through the slab and it takes forever and a day to get any hot water out of the damn faucet.
 
Politesse said:
Colonel Sanders said:
I used Tiananmen Square as an example. It's one that especially stands out to me because for some reason, modern Americans, young people in particular just can't help themselves from shitting on America via a well documented massacre by some other country.
Click to expand...
Can you provide a single example of this... "example"... actually ocurring in the real world? I've never heard any American defend the massacre at Tiananmen Square. Certainly not any American politician.
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No. I'm making it up out of whole cloth. Just a fantasy I had. I've never seen overwrought insufferable deflecting assholes do this.

Never. Not once.

And I'm sure you haven't either.

Disingenuous is totally not that word that's coming to mind right now.
 
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