Dem Post Mortem

[Bomb#20]

ObOnTopic: How's the whole "Motivate people to turn out for your candidate by trumping up baseless ad hominems against them" strategy working out?

seemed to work well for the republicans.

I'm not talking about demonizing the other side; I'm talking about demonizing your own side on account of insufficient ideological purity. Have the Republicans been doing that? If Elixir thinks Emily is a MAGAt he's delusional.

Adjusted for overall population between 2020 and 2024, Trump's vote count went up 1%. Harris's vote count went down 11%. Republican rhetoric does not appear to be the problem. There are about a hundred million Democrats who think like Emily on these issues and Democratic talking heads seem to have a penchant for talking about them the way Elixir talks about Emily.

 

[Shadowy Man]

ObOnTopic: How's the whole "Motivate people to turn out for your candidate by trumping up baseless ad hominems against them" strategy working out?

seemed to work well for the republicans.

I'm not talking about demonizing the other side; I'm talking about demonizing your own side on account of insufficient ideological purity. Have the Republicans been doing that?

I don’t about what they do to the voters but they definitely do that to the politicians. They threaten them if they won’t go along with Trump’s plans, like the senators about the confirmations. And they’re going to fire any general that doesn’t meet their ideological standards too.

So yes the republicans do it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I saw far more republicans avoid the question of did Trump lose 2020 election than I saw democrats avoid defining “woman”.

 

[ZiprHead]

or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" except if Congress declares an action insurrection or rebellion, or else if an individual gets convicted of a relevant federal crime, passed by Congress?

It would be a bad precedent indeed to give state courts power to declare presidential candidates ineligible, and indeed, the Amendment does not seem to do that. It is also curious that the Amendment specifies "elector of President and Vice-President", but not "President and Vice-President" themselves. Strange omission.

Horse crap. We all know what he did and who he had helping him. The fake electors scheme goes straight back to the Oval Office. The fact that he let the insurrection go on for three hours definietly shows aid and comfort. His promise to pardon those convicted of associated crimes also shows it.

Trump should have been immediately arrested the morning of January 21st.

To me the fundamental problem is that we don't have a definition of exactly what constitutes insurrection.

Really???

The legal definition of insurrection is a violent act of rebellion against a government or other political authority:

• Definition
  Insurrection is a violent uprising against a government's authority, including taking up arms or actively opposing the government's power.
  
  Penalties
  A conviction for insurrection under 18 U.S.C. § 2383 can result in:
  • Up to 10 years in prison
  • A fine of up to $250,000
  • Permanent disqualification from holding any government office in the United States

This has a I-know-it-when-I-see-it nature. And that doesn't belong in law.

Perry Mason you are not.

But what body of adequate authority ever determined that it was an insurrection?? That's where I have a problem--if a suitable body declares that 1/6 was an insurrection then he should be yeeted on the 14th. But that didn't happen--remember the various red areas talking about yeeting Biden on "insurrection"?

Keep moving those goalposts, Captain.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not talking about demonizing the other side; I'm talking about demonizing your own side on account of insufficient ideological purity. Have the Republicans been doing that?

The term RINO (Republican In Name Only) has been around for years.

 

[Elixir]

I'm not talking about demonizing the other side; I'm talking about demonizing your own side on account of insufficient ideological purity. Have the Republicans been doing that?

The term RINO (Republican In Name Only) has been around for years.

We could also recall some things said by prominent republicans ca. January 2021 regarding their current nominee’s fitness for office and culpability for crimes.
But that’s not so bad b‘cuz they didn’t really mean it.
And the Demonizer In Chief didn’t really mean all the terrible bad things and fun nicknames he laid on them, either.
Then we could point to Liz Cheney, sadly the brain trust of the OG, and some other Republicans whose integrity has not been violated by contact with the poison peach. Those folks have a mouthful but whatthehell they’re just RINOs.

 

[TSwizzle]

Bill Maher sums things up in his usual style.

 

[thebeave]

Bill Maher sums things up in his usual style.

Helloo?? McFly?!

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Bill Maher said that the party obsessed with race and sex lost, except that the Republicans won. He even quoted the "What is a woman" question earlier, and who asks a question like that? The answer is someone who knows no basic human biology, and thinks that they are being smart, except they are showing off their ignorance and bigotry. Ask them what is a human, and they couldn't answer.
There is a 'Ring of Fire' video that says the Democrats lost because they were out of touch (similar to what Maher is saying). That implies that the Republicans were 'in touch', and that is unbelievable. The voters weren't analyzing everything the candidates and parties were saying, but voted based on 'feels' not reason, and because history shows demagogues are successful because they are demagogues.

Also, Maher mentions a Democrat who fears his daughter will be crushed by a transsexual on a sporting field - well that is a viewpoint a Republican would have usually, and that is a Democrat who is out of touch, as his daughter is much more likely to be shot at school or raped.

 

[TSwizzle]

Helloo?? McFly?!

Oops

 

[Elixir]

“It's amazing how an election loss, even as big as this one, still doesn't put a dent in the thinking that lost it.”

It’s corollary to the fact that a lie makes it half way around the world before the truth gets its pants on.

 

[Bomb#20]

There's no critical thinking skills involved in the lightweight white knighting self-hatred that so many liberals just can't seem to get enough of.

It doesn't really count as self-hatred when the whole point is to other the society you're using as a punching bag.

I used Tiananmen Square as an example. ...

Yes, I'm familiar with the pattern you're talking about -- Americans reacting to criticism of other countries with anti-American whataboutism. My point is that self-hatred is a variety of low self-esteem, and the Americans who use America as a punching bag are a high-self-esteem lot -- they're the folks Sowell described with "Self-congratulation as social policy".

But I suppose discussing what happened there is "Othering" the entire nation of China and all the people within it, rather than it being an example of violent tyranny that can be discussed on its own merits.

It isn't symmetrical. Criticizing the CCP for Tiananmen Square isn't "othering"; it's siding with the Chinese people against their rulers. The Americans who use America as a punching bag more typically are distancing themselves from the rest of us -- they appear to imagine belonging to the group they're criticizing means they deserve credit for self-criticism even though their intent was to criticize other members of the group, never themselves. They're virtue signaling.

As an aside: "Othering." There's about 8% of American that aren't absolutely ... sick of terms like that.

So I have a weakness for paying people in like coin. So sue me.

 

[Politesse]

There's no critical thinking skills involved in the lightweight white knighting self-hatred that so many liberals just can't seem to get enough of.

It doesn't really count as self-hatred when the whole point is to other the society you're using as a punching bag.

I used Tiananmen Square as an example. ...

Yes, I'm familiar with the pattern you're talking about -- Americans reacting to criticism of other countries with anti-American whataboutism. My point is that self-hatred is a variety of low self-esteem, and the Americans who use America as a punching bag are a high-self-esteem lot -- they're the folks Sowell described with "Self-congratulation as social policy".

But I suppose discussing what happened there is "Othering" the entire nation of China and all the people within it, rather than it being an example of violent tyranny that can be discussed on its own merits.

It isn't symmetrical. Criticizing the CCP for Tiananmen Square isn't "othering"; it's siding with the Chinese people against their rulers. The Americans who use America as a punching bag more typically are distancing themselves from the rest of us -- they appear to imagine belonging to the group they're criticizing means they deserve credit for self-criticism even though their intent was to criticize other members of the group, never themselves.

This strikes me as a strange point. I do not consider myself personally responsible for every action the federal government or some president takes, no. If it's actually my family that did something, that's another matter. But either way, as long as this democracy stands we have the right and the responsibility to celebrate the government when it does good and criticize it when it errs.

 

[TSwizzle]

There is a 'Ring of Fire' video that says the Democrats lost because they were out of touch (similar to what Maher is saying). That implies that the Republicans were 'in touch', and that is unbelievable.

unfortunately we have a two party system in the US. The democrats did such a poor job while in power, obsessed about unimportant issues while overseeing the worst inflation in years. Then they try to pretend that old man Brandon was perfectly fine despite the mounting evidence to the contrary and when they couldn’t hide it any longer because nobody was buying it they fobbed us off with an unelectable cackling Kamala who offered nothing but the same shit Brandon served up. So no, you don’t get to keep your job. Come back in 2028 with something else and for ffs, it better not be insufferable prick Newsom.

 

[Elixir]

The democrats did such a poor job while in power, obsessed about unimportant issues while overseeing the worst inflation in years.

Inflation caused by The Felon.

 

[Patooka]

Bill Maher said that the party obsessed with race and sex lost, except that the Republicans won. He even quoted the "What is a woman" question earlier, and who asks a question like that? The answer is someone who knows no basic human biology, and thinks that they are being smart, except they are showing off their ignorance and bigotry. Ask them what is a human, and they couldn't answer.
There is a 'Ring of Fire' video that says the Democrats lost because they were out of touch (similar to what Maher is saying). That implies that the Republicans were 'in touch', and that is unbelievable. The voters weren't analyzing everything the candidates and parties were saying, but voted based on 'feels' not reason, and because history shows demagogues are successful because they are demagogues.

Also, Maher mentions a Democrat who fears his daughter will be crushed by a transsexual on a sporting field - well that is a viewpoint a Republican would have usually, and that is a Democrat who is out of touch, as his daughter is much more likely to be shot at school or raped.

Bill Maher accusing literally anybody else of being out of touch requires a herculean lack of self awareness. It's kinda impressive.

 

[Elixir]

The democrats did such a poor job while in power, obsessed about unimportant issues while overseeing the worst inflation in years.

Inflation caused by The Felon.

What really rankles me is the stupidity of people who think a president can cause an instant spike in inflation - within weeks!
As it stands, Biden/Harris have engineered the BEST recovery in the world from the GLOBAL inflation caused by COVID, and greatly exacerbated by Trump’s anti-mask, anti-vax idiocy. But now they are now blamed for creating the problems that Trump bungled.
It could take another three years for Trump to do it again, but I doubt it. Kleptocracy is inflationary by nature and Trump’s greed is endless. I expect that an anticipatory rise in inflation will be felt by consumers in 2025. I wonder how Trump will blame Obama, Biden and Harris for that.

Back to the point - yeah. Trump is in touch. Far more in touch with the fear, envy, hatred and revulsion people feel about Others^tm

Compared to Harris he’s a reg’lar empath.

 

[Politesse]

The democrats did such a poor job while in power, obsessed about unimportant issues while overseeing the worst inflation in years.

Inflation caused by The Felon.

What really rankles me is the stupidity of people who think a president can cause an instant spike in inflation - within weeks!

Global inflation and supply chain issues, no less! Republicans and their "moderate" patsies are dumb as a box of rocks.

 

[Bomb#20]

ObOnTopic: How's the whole "Motivate people to turn out for your candidate by trumping up baseless ad hominems against them" strategy working out?

seemed to work well for the republicans.

I'm not talking about demonizing the other side; I'm talking about demonizing your own side on account of insufficient ideological purity. Have the Republicans been doing that?

I don’t about what they do to the voters but they definitely do that to the politicians. They threaten them if they won’t go along with Trump’s plans, like the senators about the confirmations. And they’re going to fire any general that doesn’t meet their ideological standards too.

So yes the republicans do it.

They did that to the politicians and generals, and they didn't lose 11% of their voters. Huh. Maybe a typical voter cares what you say about her, but doesn't give a fig what you say about some politician or general. Maybe a typical voter already shares your low opinion of politicians and generals anyway. Just a hypothesis.

The term RINO (Republican In Name Only) has been around for years.

Hmm, yes, calling someone a RINO is off-putting like calling her a bigot. "RINO" is a policy disagreement; "bigot" is character assassination.

We could also recall some things said by prominent republicans ca. January 2021 regarding their current nominee’s fitness for office and culpability for crimes.
But that’s not so bad b‘cuz they didn’t really mean it.
And the Demonizer In Chief didn’t really mean all the terrible bad things and fun nicknames he laid on them, either.
Then we could point to Liz Cheney, sadly the brain trust of the OG, and some other Republicans whose integrity has not been violated by contact with the poison peach. Those folks have a mouthful but whatthehell they’re just RINOs.

Hmm, yes, Liz Cheney was totally going to vote for Trump before he laid all those terrible bad things and fun nicknames on her.

 

[bilby]

or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" except if Congress declares an action insurrection or rebellion, or else if an individual gets convicted of a relevant federal crime, passed by Congress?

It would be a bad precedent indeed to give state courts power to declare presidential candidates ineligible, and indeed, the Amendment does not seem to do that. It is also curious that the Amendment specifies "elector of President and Vice-President", but not "President and Vice-President" themselves. Strange omission.

Horse crap. We all know what he did and who he had helping him. The fake electors scheme goes straight back to the Oval Office. The fact that he let the insurrection go on for three hours definietly shows aid and comfort. His promise to pardon those convicted of associated crimes also shows it.

Trump should have been immediately arrested the morning of January 21st.

To me the fundamental problem is that we don't have a definition of exactly what constitutes insurrection. This has a I-know-it-when-I-see-it nature. And that doesn't belong in law.

Seems like this would fall under the "reasonable person" standard courts use.

People can be reasonable when it comes to politics?

Only if they are riding the Clapham omnibus.