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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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Mr. Netanahyu is a prime example of someone who is willing to send others to fight and die for his country as long as they are not part of a extremist bigoted religious sect whose support is keeping him from prison.
Netanyahu is a prime example of a guy in his late 70s who has been under assault or threat of assault for his entire life.
Tom
The risk to a US citizen of a violent death or attack is much larger than an Israeli's in Israel, so millions of people are an example of someone who has been under assault or threat of assault their entire life.
But people in the US are less likely to be hunched beside their car on the highway as they wait for the latest volley missiles / rockets to go overhead. There is no doubting that Israel is a dubious place when it comes to security and that their neighbors are the source of said dubious security.
There are plenty of people in the US who are afraid to go places. Yes, they are not afraid of getting hit by a bomb or rocket, but the thraet to their lives is actually greater. And that is true for millions of people throughout the world. So, in my opinion, so Netanahyu;'s situation is not terribly unique nor does it merit extra sympathy/empathy or recognition.
 
Mr. Netanahyu is a prime example of someone who is willing to send others to fight and die for his country as long as they are not part of a extremist bigoted religious sect whose support is keeping him from prison.
Netanyahu is a prime example of a guy in his late 70s who has been under assault or threat of assault for his entire life.
Tom
The risk to a US citizen of a violent death or attack is much larger than an Israeli's in Israel, so millions of people are an example of someone who has been under assault or threat of assault their entire life.
But people in the US are less likely to be hunched beside their car on the highway as they wait for the latest volley missiles / rockets to go overhead. There is no doubting that Israel is a dubious place when it comes to security and that their neighbors are the source of said dubious security.
There are plenty of people in the US who are afraid to go places. Yes, they are not afraid of getting hit by a bomb or rocket, but the thraet to their lives is actually greater. And that is true for millions of people throughout the world. So, in my opinion, so Netanahyu;'s situation is not terribly unique nor does it merit extra sympathy/empathy or recognition.
I'd say that Netanyahu's situation is not unique among Israelis and lots of Israelis disagree with his decisions, plans, military ideas. In fact, seems easily over half of the country doesn't support him at all, and it would be expected that Likud would lose seats if an election were to occur shortly.
 
I suppose some might label those Jews as apologists for Hamas based on the arguments made here. :rolleyes:
 
Holding hostages is not a form of attack.
George Orwell would be proud of your rhetoric.

"So what if we kidnapped your family members? So what if we continue to hold the kidnappees.
It's your fault that we are violent. It's your fault that we refuse to end the violence.
We're Muslim and You are Not!
Tom
George Orwell would not be proud of your insultingly stupid straw man argument.

Kidnapping the hostage is an attack. Holding the hostages is not.
Very keen on hair splitting aren't you.
If you could please detail the logic split between hostage taking being an attck byt retaining said hostages is not a continuation of the attack that would be most helpful.
 
Holding hostages is not a form of attack.
George Orwell would be proud of your rhetoric.

"So what if we kidnapped your family members? So what if we continue to hold the kidnappees.
It's your fault that we are violent. It's your fault that we refuse to end the violence.
We're Muslim and You are Not!
Tom
George Orwell would not be proud of your insultingly stupid straw man argument.

Kidnapping the hostage is an attack. Holding the hostages is not.
Very keen on hair splitting aren't you.
If you could please detail the logic split between hostage taking being an attck byt retaining said hostages is not a continuation of the attack that would be most helpful.
Been there, done it, and it doesn’t appear to help.
 
Holding hostages is not a form of attack.
George Orwell would be proud of your rhetoric.

"So what if we kidnapped your family members? So what if we continue to hold the kidnappees.
It's your fault that we are violent. It's your fault that we refuse to end the violence.
We're Muslim and You are Not!
Tom
George Orwell would not be proud of your insultingly stupid straw man argument.

Kidnapping the hostage is an attack. Holding the hostages is not.
Very keen on hair splitting aren't you.
If you could please detail the logic split between hostage taking being an attck byt retaining said hostages is not a continuation of the attack that would be most helpful.
Been there, done it, and it doesn’t appear to help.
Alright then. No answer.
 
Stop placing your liberal fantasy into the mouths of the Palestinians. Listen to what they are saying

If you don’t mind me asking, what exactly do you mean by 'listen to what they are saying'? I assume you’re referring to a platform you consider trustworthy. Could you share where you’ve been hearing from the Palestinians?
 
Very keen on hair splitting aren't you.
I use the term "terrorist apologetics".

It's important to be sure that Israel gets blamed, but not Muslim terrorists.
Tom

You do realize you're only right every time you say it because that's exactly how selective reading works, right?
 
Anyway, It’s easy to find the voices of Palestinians and Israelis who are directly affected, angry, afraid, and grieving over this conflict. These are people living the reality, not armchair commentators from faraway nations who think they understand because they’ve consumed media from profit-driven outlets. Most of these platforms publish content like advertisements, designed to polarize audiences and maximize revenue.

If your understanding comes solely from such 'news' sources, you’re profoundly disconnected from both Palestinians and Israelis. It’s like claiming to fully grasp America by echoing the talking heads on Fox or CNN or parroting government officials, all while ignoring the rich and complex diversity of American experiences.

The 'terrorist apologist' rhetoric being thrown around is not only pathetic but counterproductive. It mirrors the same black-and-white extremism found on both ends of this conflict and does nothing to bridge the divide or create understanding.

There are Jewish people who have Palestinian friends they deeply care about, people they haven’t heard from and are heartbroken about. There are Palestinians who feel conflicted about the violence because they long for freedom but abhor the suffering it causes. You might think I’m making this up, but that likely stems from how disconnected you are from both Jewish and Palestinian communities.

For example, did you know that for many Israelis, the term 'Palestinian' is seen primarily as a political identity tied to nationalism? Meanwhile, Palestinians view it as an expression of their peoplehood, a core part of who they are. Did you know that in Israel, speaking Arabic in public can sometimes evoke fear or suspicion? Or that Palestinians living in traditional households often face barriers even in participating in peace initiatives because those programs don’t account for their cultural realities?

But no, you probably read all of that clutching your, “Well, Hamas!” pistol. Just stop. I am not talking about governments or armed groups; I am talking about people, actual people. I’m not bringing these truths up to fuel polarization. I’m highlighting them because they are often absent from the narratives fed to you by your chosen media outlets.

You should already know these things. If you don’t, it’s because you aren’t paying attention to people, you’re just the product of the media you consume.

More inconvenient truths: in some parts of Gaza, a person can face violence or worse from their own family for being anything other than heterosexual. It’s a stark reminder that the oppression Palestinians face isn’t just external, it’s internal too. Similarly, Palestinian girls from traditional households in East Jerusalem or the West Bank often can’t participate in peace programs because these initiatives fail to account for cultural realities, like conservative views on gender segregation or the mistrust families feel toward activities perceived as too "foreign."

On the other side, consider the fear Jewish Israelis feel when hearing Arabic spoken in public, fear that stems from years of conflict, trauma, and a lack of real connection with their Palestinian neighbors. And yet, the disconnect is mutual: Palestinians are just as wary of programs led entirely by Israelis, fearing they’ll be used to advance Zionist narratives or portray them as token "good Arabs."

Both sides face pressures within their own communities. Jewish Israelis are shamed into silence if they express empathy for Palestinians (like some of you do here for so called terrorist apologist), while Palestinians sometimes feel pressure to mute their pain to avoid being labeled a "good Arab" or an apologist for Israel. These internal dynamics are often swept under the rug, just like the complexities of this conflict that your soundbite-driven worldview continues to ignore.

This conflict will never end as long as people on both sides resort to screaming "terrorist apologist." Such rhetoric only serves to deepen division and hatred, the very fuel that sustains groups like Hamas. In doing so, you are endangering the Israeli people far more than Hamas ever could by perpetuating the cycle of fear and hostility that extremists depend on to justify their actions.
 
Holding hostages is not a form of attack.
George Orwell would be proud of your rhetoric.

"So what if we kidnapped your family members? So what if we continue to hold the kidnappees.
It's your fault that we are violent. It's your fault that we refuse to end the violence.
We're Muslim and You are Not!
Tom
George Orwell would not be proud of your insultingly stupid straw man argument.

Kidnapping the hostage is an attack. Holding the hostages is not.
Very keen on hair splitting aren't you.
If you could please detail the logic split between hostage taking being an attck byt retaining said hostages is not a continuation of the attack that would be most helpful.
Been there, done it, and it doesn’t appear to help.
Alright then. No answer.
No, that is an answer that you either don't like or don't understand.

Holding the hostages is a continuation of the crime, but not the attack. Just like the pain from a punch is a continuation from the punch but it is not the punch. It does not mean that the initial act was not an attack. It means its aftermath (depending on the outcome) is not necessarily an attack. That is my view. Either you understand or you don't. Which is different than approving of it or not.
 
IDF soldiers face extraordinary challenges in Gaza, operating in a battlefield where militant strongholds are deeply embedded within civilian areas. They are tasked with dismantling tunnels, neutralizing IEDs, and making split-second decisions in situations fraught with moral ambiguity. The emotional toll is immense, as they must balance their duty to protect their homeland with the need to minimize civilian casualties, a responsibility complicated further by Hamas's use of civilians as shields and the apparent lack of a clear endgame from their own leadership.

This work is not only dangerous but deeply taxing, and I can’t begin to comprehend what it takes to endure such experiences, let alone to transition back to civilian life afterward. It’s clear that many IDF members, who are often draftees, face profound psychological burdens, and even veterans in special forces drawn from the Israeli police carry their own scars.

While Israel rightly prioritizes the safety of its soldiers, the human cost of the conflict extends far beyond military casualties. The loss of life, whether among soldiers or innocent civilians, is not something to be brushed aside. Casualty statistics, even if comparatively low, represent lives lost, and it’s deeply troubling to see them discussed casually. I doubt anyone would speak about those numbers so dispassionately in front of grieving families. If you could, it speaks to a profound lack of empathy.

There must be greater recognition of the real human toll on both ends of this conflict. Innocent Palestinians, caught in the crossfire simply because they live in a combat zone or were born into this situation, deserve acknowledgment and compassion, not dismissal (because herp-derp Hamas). Behind every statistic is a person whose life was tragically cut short.

The issue of the IDF allegedly killing surrendering civilians has been discussed in two opposing ways. Some use it to argue that Israeli disregards internationally accepted rules of engagement, while others attempt to justify these deaths by pointing to Hamas’s well-documented use of civilians as shields.

In reality, the situation is likely far less hit piece and far more real. IDF soldiers operate in an extraordinarily hostile environment where Hamas employs tactics such as setting booby traps, disguising combatants as civilians to launch ambushes, and using decoy civilians to lure personnel into traps. These are the grim realities of the conflict, and they take a profound psychological toll on soldiers.

Under such intense pressure and trauma, it is tragically predictable that mistakes can happen, leading to the loss of innocent lives. Soldiers are thrust into chaotic, high-stakes scenarios where the line between threat and safety is often unclear.

Innocent people dying in these circumstances is an undeniable tragedy, and the soldiers involved will likely carry that burden for the rest of their lives. Rather than justifying these incidents because herp-derp Hamas, how about you acknowledge the human cost? It’s unlikely that any genuine IDF soldier would find comfort in the kinds of rationalizations or excuses I’ve seen on this forum. And by 'genuine soldiers,' I mean those who serve with integrity, not the bad actors who exist in every military establishment worldwide. That’s a whole other issue: how we often allow the worst individuals to shape perceptions of a nation’s military personnel. This includes the shitty leadership at the top. To me, it’s absurd.

I apologies for the ranting.
 
I’m honestly exhausted by the cherry-picked facts that are framed to support some of the most disconnected views on this conflict. From my view it's using the views of extremists to create conflicting identities for Israelis and Palestinians that have little to do with the reality of everyday people.
 
IDF soldiers face extraordinary challenges in Gaza, operating in a battlefield where militant strongholds are deeply embedded within civilian areas. They are tasked with dismantling tunnels, neutralizing IEDs, and making split-second decisions in situations fraught with moral ambiguity. The emotional toll is immense, as they must balance their duty to protect their homeland with the need to minimize civilian casualties, a responsibility complicated further by Hamas's use of civilians as shields and the apparent lack of a clear endgame from their own leadership.

This work is not only dangerous but deeply taxing, and I can’t begin to comprehend what it takes to endure such experiences, let alone to transition back to civilian life afterward. It’s clear that many IDF members, who are often draftees, face profound psychological burdens, and even veterans in special forces drawn from the Israeli police carry their own scars.

While Israel rightly prioritizes the safety of its soldiers, the human cost of the conflict extends far beyond military casualties. The loss of life, whether among soldiers or innocent civilians, is not something to be brushed aside. Casualty statistics, even if comparatively low, represent lives lost, and it’s deeply troubling to see them discussed casually. I doubt anyone would speak about those numbers so dispassionately in front of grieving families. If you could, it speaks to a profound lack of empathy.

There must be greater recognition of the real human toll on both ends of this conflict. Innocent Palestinians, caught in the crossfire simply because they live in a combat zone or were born into this situation, deserve acknowledgment and compassion, not dismissal (because herp-derp Hamas). Behind every statistic is a person whose life was tragically cut short.

The issue of the IDF allegedly killing surrendering civilians has been discussed in two opposing ways. Some use it to argue that Israeli disregards internationally accepted rules of engagement, while others attempt to justify these deaths by pointing to Hamas’s well-documented use of civilians as shields.

In reality, the situation is likely far less hit piece and far more real. IDF soldiers operate in an extraordinarily hostile environment where Hamas employs tactics such as setting booby traps, disguising combatants as civilians to launch ambushes, and using decoy civilians to lure personnel into traps. These are the grim realities of the conflict, and they take a profound psychological toll on soldiers.

Under such intense pressure and trauma, it is tragically predictable that mistakes can happen, leading to the loss of innocent lives. Soldiers are thrust into chaotic, high-stakes scenarios where the line between threat and safety is often unclear.

Innocent people dying in these circumstances is an undeniable tragedy, and the soldiers involved will likely carry that burden for the rest of their lives. Rather than justifying these incidents because herp-derp Hamas, how about you acknowledge the human cost? It’s unlikely that any genuine IDF soldier would find comfort in the kinds of rationalizations or excuses I’ve seen on this forum. And by 'genuine soldiers,' I mean those who serve with integrity, not the bad actors who exist in every military establishment worldwide. That’s a whole other issue: how we often allow the worst individuals to shape perceptions of a nation’s military personnel. This includes the shitty leadership at the top. To me, it’s absurd.

I apologies for the ranting.
No need to apologize for ranting. In fact, the apology suggests you weren't ranting!!!

One should remember that the IDF is using lots of "reservists". That means part-time soldiers who may have little current training or the level of experience and training that professional full-time soldiers have.
 
I’d wager that for many of them, this might be their first exposure to the Palestinian perspective. Of course, their understanding will be shaped not only by their authoritative role and how Palestinians perceive them but also by the constraints imposed by their positions.
 
I’m honestly exhausted by the cherry-picked facts that are framed to support some of the most disconnected views on this conflict. From my view it's using the views of extremists to create conflicting identities for Israelis and Palestinians that have little to do with the reality of everyday people.
It is pretty hard for me to believe either side's narrative on this one.
 
Anyway, let’s get back to the topic at hand—those Muslim extremists who, somehow, have magically been every single Palestinian in Gaza, from infants to the elderly and how my not agreeing to that makes me a terrorist supporter. :rolleyes:
 
I’m honestly exhausted by the cherry-picked facts that are framed to support some of the most disconnected views on this conflict. From my view it's using the views of extremists to create conflicting identities for Israelis and Palestinians that have little to do with the reality of everyday people.
It is pretty hard for me to believe either side's narrative on this one.

It’s twisted fragments of truth, making it hard to believe the actual truth when you encounter it.
 
Anyway, let’s get back to the topic at hand—those Muslim extremists who, somehow, have magically been every single Palestinian in Gaza, from infants to the elderly and how my not agreeing to that makes me a terrorist supporter. :rolleyes:
If you don't agree with killing every single child in Gaza, you're a terrorist!!!
 
Anyway, let’s get back to the topic at hand—those Muslim extremists who, somehow, have magically been every single Palestinian in Gaza, from infants to the elderly and how my not agreeing to that makes me a terrorist supporter. :rolleyes:
If you don't agree with killing every single child in Gaza, you're a terrorist!!!
Muslim terrorist, just to be clear.
Tom
 
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