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The Dems should not try to stop unpopular MAGA policies

laughing dog said:
The US does not gave the capability of successively carrying out much of Trump’s deportation plans. Nor is he likely to get much of his agenda through Congress unscathed.

Where he can do real damage is with appointments, firings and administrative policy along with some tariff policy.

If he gets some of his way on deportations snd tariffs, goods and services will become more expensive - something people will notice.
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This is just one end of the constantly swinging pendulum of American politics going back decades if not longer.

We (or just over half of us) happily vote in politicians who sell us on sunshine and rainbows (while serving the wealthy) and when the situation they create becomes untenable and the people start to suffer, they turn on their temporary masters and vote in someone to fix things. The grifters regroup, and the next time tell us that everything is bad and we need more sunshine and rainbows. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Going backwards through recent history is instructive. Things were so bad in 2020 that the country happily threw Trump out of office in favor of the most milquetoast Democratic candidate since Walter Mondale. Things were so bad in 2008 that the electorate chose a black guy over a war hero because Bush Jr. had fucked things up so badly. Bush Sr. fucked things up badly enough that by '92 the American people were ready to elect a horn-dog horn player to fix things. Jimmy Carter was the honest man to take over after the corrupt Nixon administration, but was himself defeated by a sunshine and rainbows candidate.

I wouldn't be surprised if things are so bad by 2028 that it will swing back the other way. Yet the Democrats won't win because they put up a game-changing candidate, but because things are so bad that a potted plant could win against President Vance. Then the music will start again.

In the near term, I'm all in favor of "let it all burn." We don't make significant changes in this country until things get so bad that we have to.
 
ideologyhunter said:
W-w-whattt???????????? Didn't the Repubs instruct us over and over that the filibuster is a necessary device to insure that the minority party has a voice? I am shocked. Shocked.
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They've already removed the filibuster for SC judges. I'm starting to agree that Sotomayor should step down.
 
Politesse said:
For shame!

Feeling surly about the reality of slim (1%!) majority support for a political candidate is no excuse for inaction in the face of evil deeds. That's like throwing your baby in front of train because you are annoyed that it cried. Especially since many of the people most affected by the policies you propose abetting didn't have right to vote in the election you're trying to punish them for.

Is this a popular sentiment? If so, no wonder the Democrats are losing popular support, the faithless cowards! We're not even properly to the battle yet, and you lot are casting about for a pair of unsoiled underpants to make your surrender flag from! Fight, you fools, fight like your rights depend on it. Because they DO.
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Sorry, what were you saying? I got completely distracted by this montage of TikTok people in animal costumes making pouty-face.
 
I think that the disinformation coming from right wing so called news sources, as well as Trump himself and his groupies are perhaps the biggest problem we are facing.

For example, this morning I had a friendly, disagreement about Trump with an 83 year old woman who exercises with my group. She is frail and usually only lasts about 15 minutes of our 45 minute workout. I don't recall exactly how our conversation turned to politics, but she told me that she had big hopes that Trump would do a great job as president because the last 3 and half years have been a disaster. WTF!

I asked her why she thought that and she said that Biden was letting millions of illegals across the border. I told her that about the same number came in when Trump was president. She said that wasn't true. Then she said they should come here legally and I tried to explain how difficult it was do to that and that I knew some undocumented immigrants and they were very dear people, who worked in Mexican restaurants, and I'd love for people like them to be able to come her legally. She obviously was getting her information from either fox or newsmax. I explained to her that the NYTimes has been around since 1851 and had won more awards for journalism than any other news sources, so I trust the statistics I read there, compared to what I might see on tv news. The Times even corrects itself when it makes an error and it allows both sides to write opinion pieces. I gently told her that she wasn't hearing the facts.

She told me almost the exact same thing that another woman who I workout with had told me. We eventually ended the conversation by saying that we both hoped for the best. What else could I possibly say to this sweet woman who has been manipulated by right wing misinformation?

Both of the women who I've discussed this with depend on SS and Medicare. They are both Christians. I guess they don't realize that Trump has nothing in common with their Jesus. They are both caring people. On the other hand, all of my close friends, regardless of race or gender are very upset and worried about the next four years. We try to console each other with humor and we provide emotional support to each other. They realize what a threat Trump and his groupies are to the country, even to the world. One of the women who works at the center has visited a rage cage a time or two to try and cope. I love chatting with her, we all love her, but she is always worried she will be fired if she gets caught discussing politics with the members of our senior center, so I try to be careful not to get her in a bad situation with her job.

Why did so many people get addicted to Fox, Newsmax etc? Why do so many others realize that these sources are full of lies and disinformation? As long as these sources of so called news exist, I see little hope for the future of our country. As some of you have already said, whatever happens, the victims of this right wing shit will be told to blame the Democrats.

I don't think the Dems should back down, but sometimes I hope things will burn down so quickly, that enough people will realize they have been duped, including enough of those in the Congress with Rs after their names. Perhaps that is wishful thinking. In the meantime, I'm contributing to the ACLU and encourage anyone who has a few extra bucks to support the organizations that are lawyering up to fight this mess that has been created.

This country has made it through some terrible times in the past, so we shouldn't feel doomed. We have never been and never will be some perfect union. That's a pipe dream. We should talk to our friendly acquaintances and neighbors who are Trump supporters and try and help them understand who trump really is, with the hope of seeing a big change in the midterms. Don't tell me we're doomed. The fight has not yet begun. As the old soul song says, "We gotta fight the powers that be".
 
The last 3.5 years “has been a disaster” and “just look at the border” sure is a common refrain. GOP has done a great job convincing people that they are being destroyed by migrants. The lies and hyperbole are amazing.

Don’t the people that have fallen for them ever go outside? To the store? Crime is down where we live. I shop at a bakery/butcher shop/grocery store/lunch counter that is straight up Mexican. It is a staple in its rural farm crossroads. But those people are the problem that has to be purged, not the kleptocratic autocrat oligarchs. But that is what the propaganda is meant to do: divide the workers and protect the aristocracy.

On one hand I want to let the bad shit happen. On the other I can’t stand to think about the family that was checking out at Aldi across from me tonight being deported. Nor my friends at the bakery or the guys that hung the drywall out back or the guys putting the roof on the new apartments next door.

Then I get mean again. Some of the guys installing the roof voted for Trump because macho gender stuff. They think they’re immune to the pogrom because of their status n the Florida construction industry. Man, the resentful side of me says fuck em.

I’m torn.
 
Politesse said:
Elixir said:
Maybe California should secede if it gets bad.
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I wish! But so far, there's very little talk of that on the street. Less than last time, even.

And really, that would just be kicking the can down the road. Losing California, the state most opposed to their alliance, would cement Trump/Putin's power within the remaining nation of the US, while also making us all legal targets for mass violence. State secession is illegal under Constitutional law, so if we do in fact try to secede, he can then march in troops to take everything back and ask no apology for doing it.
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Maryland will not quietly go along, but we are not large enough or populous enough to defend ourselves. They did that to us in 1861, with federal troops, even though we have now moved to the other side of the aisle.
 
Shadowy Man said:
bilby said:
scombrid said:
Crime is down where we live.
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Most people live in their TVs.

Crime is up on TV.
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Certainly the number of Law and Orders and CSIs have gone up!

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I occasionally see a few minutes of Law and Order, and am invariably horrified by the political and moral axioms on which that fictional universe is founded, and by the realisation that these are being internalised by many fans of the show as "the way reality is".

Perhaps that's why I prefer science fiction, where it is more difficult to forget that the stories presented are entirely the invention of scriptwriters, and do not need to have any connection to real events or persons, living or dead.

There is, allegedly, an up-side. Apparently police are increasingly having their work made easier, by criminals who saw CSI, and thought that gave them real world insights into how to defeat real police forensics.
 
I am trying my best to be nice now, to everybody. Can my being right help them? No?
bilby said:
scombrid said:
Crime is down where we live.
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Most people live in their TVs.

Crime is up on TV.

And no, they don't get out much; Haven't you heard? It's dangerous out there.
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My in-laws won't go out at night and were terrified that we were going out to eat at the Korean restaurant in "that part of town".
 
bilby said:
scombrid said:
Crime is down where we live.
Click to expand...
Most people live in their TVs.

Crime is up on TV.

And no, they don't get out much; Haven't you heard? It's dangerous out there.
Click to expand...
An interesting thing I saw on this: People are mismeasuring crime. The police have responded to the 2020 spike by focusing more effort on the big crimes--but the result is minor crimes and general disorder have gone up.
 
scombrid said:
I am trying my best to be nice now, to everybody. Can my being right help them? No?
bilby said:
scombrid said:
Crime is down where we live.
Click to expand...
Most people live in their TVs.

Crime is up on TV.

And no, they don't get out much; Haven't you heard? It's dangerous out there.
Click to expand...
My in-laws won't go out at night and were terrified that we were going out to eat at the Korean restaurant in "that part of town".
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Not just American. Some of her relatives were concerned when we were planning a trip to a part of China that isn't Han. Nothing about the area that suggested trouble.
 
bilby said:
Shadowy Man said:
bilby said:
scombrid said:
Crime is down where we live.
Click to expand...
Most people live in their TVs.

Crime is up on TV.
Click to expand...

Certainly the number of Law and Orders and CSIs have gone up!

Click to expand...
I occasionally see a few minutes of Law and Order, and am invariably horrified by the political and moral axioms on which that fictional universe is founded, and by the realisation that these are being internalised by many fans of the show as "the way reality is".

Perhaps that's why I prefer science fiction, where it is more difficult to forget that the stories presented are entirely the invention of scriptwriters, and do not need to have any connection to real events or persons, living or dead.

There is, allegedly, an up-side. Apparently police are increasingly having their work made easier, by criminals who saw CSI, and thought that gave them real world insights into how to defeat real police forensics.
Click to expand...
Law and Order is fun, but it sure the heck isn't real. Homicide Life on the Streets is much better. Cases that aren't actually solved, cases that take a long time to solve,
 
Loren Pechtel said:
bilby said:
scombrid said:
Crime is down where we live.
Click to expand...
Most people live in their TVs.

Crime is up on TV.

And no, they don't get out much; Haven't you heard? It's dangerous out there.
Click to expand...
An interesting thing I saw on this: People are mismeasuring crime. The police have responded to the 2020 spike by focusing more effort on the big crimes--but the result is minor crimes and general disorder have gone up.
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Is it though?

What I find the most outrageous about the crime issue is that crime went up under Trump. Yet, Biden gets the blame. Crime dropped, drug deaths dropped under Biden. But someone saw something on TikTok about Home Depot being burgled. Petty theft is up at stores. And people equated that to anarchy.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Loren Pechtel said:
bilby said:
scombrid said:
Crime is down where we live.
Click to expand...
Most people live in their TVs.

Crime is up on TV.

And no, they don't get out much; Haven't you heard? It's dangerous out there.
Click to expand...
An interesting thing I saw on this: People are mismeasuring crime. The police have responded to the 2020 spike by focusing more effort on the big crimes--but the result is minor crimes and general disorder have gone up.
Click to expand...
Is it though?
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without any kind of citation so we might consider the facts, who knows?
 
southernhybrid said:
For example, this morning I had a friendly, disagreement about Trump with an 83 year old woman who exercises with my group. She is frail and usually only lasts about 15 minutes of our 45 minute workout.
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At least she is out there. Good for her!
I asked her why she thought that and she said that Biden was letting millions of illegals across the border. I told her that about the same number came in when Trump was president. She said that wasn't true.
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It isn't. There has definitely been a spike under Biden.
1172999_1_0416-BORDER3_large.png

And deportations are down.
20240127_EPC164.png

And more illegals are getting "paroled".
1172998_1_0416-BORDER2_large.png

We can say a lot of bad things about Trump, but we should not make stuff up. When we do, people do not believe us even for things where Trump really performs badly. That was one of the things that helped Trump get reelected. Many people did not believe stuff said about Trump, because they lost trust in mainstream media, and some of it is media's own doing.

Then she said they should come here legally and I tried to explain how difficult it was do to that and that I knew some undocumented immigrants and they were very dear people, who worked in Mexican restaurants, and I'd love for people like them to be able to come her legally.
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Coming legally is certainly more difficult than doing it illegally. And legal immigration has limits on numbers of visas granted, so not everybody who wants to come in can. That does not justify illegal immigration. And while many illegals are "very dear people" as individuals, that does not mean we should have de-facto open borders and allow unlimited numbers of people to come in. Numbers matter. Think of your household. You may invite a stranger to Thanksgiving dinner, but that is quite different than 20 of them showing up uninvited. Even if most of them are "very dear people" individually.
She obviously was getting her information from either fox or newsmax. I explained to her that the NYTimes has been around since 1851 and had won more awards for journalism than any other news sources, so I trust the statistics I read there, compared to what I might see on tv news.
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Do you have a citation where NYT claims that there have been as many illegals coming in under Trump as under Biden? Note also that NYT has its own biases of course.
 
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