10 or more dead 20 or more wounded in campus massacre

[barbos]

Well, one guy shot and killed 5X more people than all of the shooting deaths combined in Japan in 2014 (2).

But obviously Japan is fucking things up.

When you don't have 11,000 firearm deaths per year, your country is just one giant collective pussy.

Fuck it. I can't believe there's an argument about this anymore.

Interesting you mentioned Japan. I believe Japan has pretty high suicide rate and culture is generally accepting suicides. At the same time "running amok" was mentioned too and wikipedia page says that researcher linked it to ban on suicides in islam (official religion in Malaysia)

 

[arkirk]

Well, if teachers and students could/would have carried this would not have happened or, if it did, the number of killed and wounded would have been far less.

Well the same was true for Sandy Hook. If those first graders would have been packing, it would have all been over in seconds.


We, as a society, need to work towards a day where every student at all ages and levels of education is not only armed, but willing to kill at a moment's notice. Not only that, but we'd apparently (judging on the history of mass shootings) be far safer if every moviegoer was ready to shoot, every postal customer and employee were equipped to blow away the bad guy, and our devout showed up to church packing heat and ready to gun down that rogue parishioner who tried to perpetrate a shooting.


What a glorious society that would be.

We need to consult with the NRA on making smaller, lighter weapons that are easy for kindergarten and first graders to aim and discharge however. These bigger guns just fly out of their little hands, leaving them helpless. Not too long ago a guy was teaching a young girl to use an automatic weapon and the series of discharges caused her to wheel and shoot down her teacher. I know so many people are obsessed with packing. It actually turns out to be a good way to get shot.

 

[Iznomneak]

Well, if teachers and students could/would have carried this would not have happened or, if it did, the number of killed and wounded would have been far less. With only one security officer on duty (unarmed) the teachers and students were sheep to the butcher's slaughterhouse.

For example, the Pearl, Mississippi and Edinboro, Pennsylvania school ground shooters were stopped by an armed Asst Principal and an armed citizen respectively. And in a church in Colorado Springs:

The high school I graduated from had about 450 students and maybe 150 teachers and staff. So that would be about 600 people together packing iron for about 200 days a year. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Bacillus anthracis]

Well, one guy shot and killed 5X more people than all of the shooting deaths combined in Japan in 2014 (2).

But obviously Japan is fucking things up.

When you don't have 11,000 firearm deaths per year, your country is just one giant collective pussy.

Fuck it. I can't believe there's an argument about this anymore.

Interesting you mentioned Japan. I believe Japan has pretty high suicide rate and culture is generally accepting suicides. At the same time "running amok" was mentioned too and wikipedia page says that researcher linked it to ban on suicides in islam (official religion in Malaysia)

Suicides generally take one life; that of the person doing the act. It doesn't reach out and afflict innocent strangers.

But to be fair, guns are the #1 method of suicide in the U.S.--including teenagers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, if teachers and students could/would have carried this would not have happened or, if it did, the number of killed and wounded would have been far less. With only one security officer on duty (unarmed) the teachers and students were sheep to the butcher's slaughterhouse.

Yup. If the Police have been clear enough, it is that they want more people armed in situations like this. Thanks to Schumer act, a killer is required to wear a bright yellow outfit so the other armed people know who the bad guy is and shoot accordingly.

PS: By the way, the story of the shooter checking people's religion before executing them seem to be true. Looks like an agnostic or atheist did this (another persecuted minority...).

Which is quite unfortunate.

 

[barbos]

Interesting you mentioned Japan. I believe Japan has pretty high suicide rate and culture is generally accepting suicides. At the same time "running amok" was mentioned too and wikipedia page says that researcher linked it to ban on suicides in islam (official religion in Malaysia)

Suicides generally take one life; that of the person doing the act. It doesn't reach out and afflict innocent strangers.

I don't see anyone disagreeing with that.
But in islam suicide is forbidden so they (people in Malaysia) make other people to kill them.

But to be fair, guns are the #1 method of suicide in the U.S.--including teenagers.

 

[ZiprHead]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/01/umpqua-gunman-id-d-as-chris-harper-mercer.html

Umpqua Gunman Chris Harper-Mercer Hated Religion Online

Could be one of our guys.

Sorry, no. I'm not a conservative Republican.

 

[ZiprHead]

Crazy people live everywhere and gun laws are ineffective.

You might want to mention that to the Aussies. I'm sure it will be news to them.

 

[RavenSky]

Yup. If the Police have been clear enough, it is that they want more people armed in situations like this. Thanks to Schumer act, a killer is required to wear a bright yellow outfit so the other armed people know who the bad guy is and shoot accordingly.

PS: By the way, the story of the shooter checking people's religion before executing them seem to be true. Looks like an agnostic or atheist did this (another persecuted minority...).

Which is quite unfortunate.

While the reports that the killer asked about people's religions and shot those answering "Christian" in the head may be true (only one second-hand claim is being reported multiple times at this point), there is not yet any indication that the killer was agnostic or atheist. A dating site profile attributed to him says only that he dislikes organized religion.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yup. If the Police have been clear enough, it is that they want more people armed in situations like this. Thanks to Schumer act, a killer is required to wear a bright yellow outfit so the other armed people know who the bad guy is and shoot accordingly.

Which is quite unfortunate.

While the reports that the killer asked about people's religions and shot those answering "Christian" in the head may be true (only one second-hand claim is being reported multiple times at this point), there is not yet any indication that the killer was agnostic or atheist. A dating site profile attributed to him says only that he dislikes organized religion.

I believe he said that he is spiritual, so definitely not atheist.

 

[maxparrish]

Well, if teachers and students could/would have carried this would not have happened or, if it did, the number of killed and wounded would have been far less.

Well the same was true for Sandy Hook. If those first graders would have been packing, it would have all been over in seconds.

We, as a society, need to work towards a day where every student at all ages and levels of education is not only armed, but willing to kill at a moment's notice. Not only that, but we'd apparently (judging on the history of mass shootings) be far safer if every moviegoer was ready to shoot, every postal customer and employee were equipped to blow away the bad guy, and our devout showed up to church packing heat and ready to gun down that rogue parishioner who tried to perpetrate a shooting.

What a glorious society that would be.

We are/were speaking of UCC campus for adults not an elementary school. The same is not true of Sandy Hook because first grade children are not adults and do not have the necessary judgement and ability.

We, as a society, need to work towards a day where the pathological fear of a crazed gunmen does not make a mockery of reasonable self-defensive preperation. There is nothing wrong with firearms qualified employees, teachers and principals having access to a firearm - nor in allowing a handgun for the so-called "security officer". Nor is there anything wrong with the discrete carrying of firearms by adults (I especially favor those that are disguised as ordinary items...).

We don't need "every" student or movie-goer to carry a firearm - we need to cease the shaming and intolerance of the minority of citizens who wish to either have access to or to use concealed carry in public and group venues. You know, like the prior examples I provided.

If, as it seems, this was another "gun free zone", then apparently teachers and students complied, and this "law abiding" shooter was not impressed.

 

[Turambar]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

Sad when a satire makes more sense than real news.

I am not even American but I have great admiration and respect for the country. I went to college there, made friends, started my career.... It really saddens me that the country that gave the world so much and is home to countless intelligent and creative people cannot find a solution for this madness, when there are numerous solutions and examples on how to end this all over the world: My boss here in Germany is a big gun nut, he collects the things and boasts he has dozens. But at the same time he has to keep them stored properly, unloaded and with the ammo in a separate locked container away from the guns. He cannot carry the guns loaded and he can only shoot them at the range. He gets audited by inspectors and has to take psychological tests. America wake up: There is a way out!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Mr Boylan said the gunman told the victims: "because you're a Christian you're going to see God in just about one second".

Hearsay testimony for sure but Wow. That's a line right out of one of those Death Wish movies with Charles Bronson, a series of movies that invents boogeymen and glorifies firearms.

Oregon college shooting: Gunman 'targeted Christians'

I wonder if we're going to see a giant monument on the campus with a big cross and the names of the martyrs across the bottom. Another monument to shortened lives and shattered hopes that should really just say, "Where was My God on This Day?"

 

[Sarpedon]

Suicides generally take one life; that of the person doing the act. It doesn't reach out and afflict innocent strangers

I certainly disagree with this. This is almost inconceivably wrong. Murder/Suicides are incredibly and depressingly common. Usually it 'afflicts' family members but sometimes it does get to strangers as well.

To pretend that murder/suicides are somehow more than trivially different from 'normal' suicides seems fatuous to me.

 

[maxparrish]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

Sad when a satire makes more sense than real news.

I am not even American but I have great admiration and respect for the country. I went to college there, made friends, started my career.... It really saddens me that the country that gave the world so much and is home to countless intelligent and creative people cannot find a solution for this madness, when there are numerous solutions and examples on how to end this all over the world: My boss here in Germany is a big gun nut, he collects the things and boasts he has dozens. But at the same time he has to keep them stored properly, unloaded and with the ammo in a separate locked container away from the guns. He cannot carry the guns loaded and he can only shoot them at the range. He gets audited by inspectors and has to take psychological tests. America wake up: There is a way out!

First, America is a gun nation. It's heritage at its founding and as a frontier society has firmly rooted an acceptance of firearms for its citizens. Outside of its urban belts, hunting on America's large public lands and ranches is a part of the social fabric.

Second, America has over 100,000,000 guns, and as illegal immigration has demonstrated, rather porous borders. Gun laws won't materially reduce the plentiful supply OR demand - more likely it would just criminalize a larger fraction of otherwise law abiding citizens.

Third, state and local gun laws arm criminals and disarm citizens. New York, Chicago, Washington DC, etc have lots of anti-gun laws, along with lots of gun violence.

Last, the ONLY way government MIGHT reduce gun violence is too ACTUALLY secure the bordersk, ban AND CONFISCATE all handguns, and carefully regulate rifles. Even this is problematical because confiscation of handguns would likely be ineffective, only resulting in the dumping of a greater number of handguns on the black market.

Even Australia, which confiscated many guns, imposed tough laws on handguns, and which has a hostile gun culture has (reputedly) failed. I understand that gun ownership is back up to pre-ban levels. Not surprisingly, Australia has less violent crime because the character of Australians are to be more law abiding; not because they have had fewer guns.

 

[Trausti]

Not surprisingly, Australia has less violent crime because the character of Australians are to be more law abiding; not because they have had fewer guns.

Hey now. Don't go noticing the obvious. You might offend someone.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Even Australia, which confiscated many guns, imposed tough laws on handguns, and which has a hostile gun culture has (reputedly) failed. I understand that gun ownership is back up to pre-ban levels. Not surprisingly, Australia has less violent crime because the character of Australians are to be more law abiding; not because they have had fewer guns.

Actually, the muder rate in Australia is quite high. Being a nation descended from criminals, however, they're just really good at disposing of the bodies and otherwise covering up the crimes so a significant percentage of the murders which happen don't make it into the official statistics.

 

[fromderinside]

Some have asked "how do we stop this". Authority elites in other countries that have hunting and 'freedom' have acted to protect theirs by demanding very strong requirements for gun carriers.

There is little evidence that absence of gun laws increases 'freedom'.

So in Israel, Switzerland, and other gun totting places laws are in place and advocating groups are in agreement that very strong controls and regulations are an aid for those who want to hunt and/or to keep their freedom.

Yes they want their guns. Yes they know guns in bad hands are used by those bad hands to kill people including themselves. Still there they insist on only those who know how to use and are without mental or other debilitating illness should be considered for having access to guns.

Time for the NRA to wise up and get with a strong safety program before some monster comes along and takes their rights away. Because their refusal to let any law infringe on their fictional need for anyone to have guns to remain free will lead a reasonable majority to side that monster to take guns away from every one.

In other words scare the shit out of those gun worshiping bastards.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Not surprisingly, Australia has less violent crime because the character of Australians are to be more law abiding; not because they have had fewer guns.

Hey now. Don't go noticing the obvious. You might offend someone.

If your goal is to get people to be sympathetic to your views, phrasing it that way is not the way to do it. It's completely counterproductive.

 

[SimpleDon]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

Sad when a satire makes more sense than real news.

I am not even American but I have great admiration and respect for the country. I went to college there, made friends, started my career.... It really saddens me that the country that gave the world so much and is home to countless intelligent and creative people cannot find a solution for this madness, when there are numerous solutions and examples on how to end this all over the world: My boss here in Germany is a big gun nut, he collects the things and boasts he has dozens. But at the same time he has to keep them stored properly, unloaded and with the ammo in a separate locked container away from the guns. He cannot carry the guns loaded and he can only shoot them at the range. He gets audited by inspectors and has to take psychological tests. America wake up: There is a way out!

First, America is a gun nation. It's heritage at its founding and as a frontier society has firmly rooted an acceptance of firearms for its citizens. Outside of its urban belts, hunting on America's large public lands and ranches is a part of the social fabric.

Second, America has over 100,000,000 guns, and as illegal immigration has demonstrated, rather porous borders. Gun laws won't materially reduce the plentiful supply OR demand - more likely it would just criminalize a larger fraction of otherwise law abiding citizens.

Third, state and local gun laws arm criminals and disarm citizens. New York, Chicago, Washington DC, etc have lots of anti-gun laws, along with lots of gun violence.

Last, the ONLY way government MIGHT reduce gun violence is too ACTUALLY secure the bordersk, ban AND CONFISCATE all handguns, and carefully regulate rifles. Even this is problematical because confiscation of handguns would likely be ineffective, only resulting in the dumping of a greater number of handguns on the black market.

Even Australia, which confiscated many guns, imposed tough laws on handguns, and which has a hostile gun culture has (reputedly) failed. I understand that gun ownership is back up to pre-ban levels. Not surprisingly, Australia has less violent crime because the character of Australians are to be more law abiding; not because they have had fewer guns.

The American character is more prone to violent crime and your solution is more guns?

Mexico has more gun control than we have in the US. The problem is going the other way, the guns are being smuggled from the US with weak laws into Mexico. The Canadians share the same nightmare, guns coming from the US.

Do you have some indication that this shooting would have been prevented by better border security or are you just trying to politicize this horrible event as you have accused others of doing?