Lumpenproletariat
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2014
- Messages
- 2,599
- Basic Beliefs
- ---- "Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts."
There is no basis for disqualifying the gospel accounts as evidence. As with all sources, we try to separate the fact from the fiction.
This can be said of ANY written account or ANY source for historical events. In addition to promoting religious beliefs, they are written to promote patriotic and nationalistic agendas. We accept the various sources for history as reasonably true and accurate even though they contain all the above possible flaws. Having these flaws does not mean the accounts are discounted as reliable sources for the historical events.
The gospel accounts also can be accepted as reliable sources for the events, though they have these flaws and can be mistaken, so they are subject to doubt and have to be compared to other sources for possible discrepancies, as ALL accounts have to be.
But the written account is evidence for what happened. Any document saying an event happened is evidence that the event happened. But it's not proof, and ALL the documents are subject to critical scrutiny for possible inaccuracies.
If the document has ZERO value as evidence that the reported events happened, then it also has zero value as corroboration for any other document, which means ALL documents, and thus all recorded history, come crashing down as worthless, no matter how much written evidence there is. Which makes no sense. You have to acknowledge that the report that something happened is evidence that it happened if recorded history is to have any meaning.
Some of recorded history is based on one document only, with no corroboration.
And you can't single out only one set of documents, like the gospel accounts, and say these alone are unreliable and excluded as evidence. There is nothing flawed about the gospel accounts as evidence for historical events that cannot also be said of most other documents used as sources for historical events. Some are more flawed than others, but all have to be accepted as evidence for the events.
The miracle stories make the documents more doubtful but do not disqualify the source as evidence for events. And additional sources for the same miracle claims increase the credibility of those claims.
We have accounts of the miracle acts he performed. These are evidence. You can dispute how reliable this evidence is, but it is evidence.
An account alone is not necessarily evidence that the account is true and accurate.
It may be mistaken.
It may be a work of fiction.
It may have been written to promote a set of religious beliefs.
This can be said of ANY written account or ANY source for historical events. In addition to promoting religious beliefs, they are written to promote patriotic and nationalistic agendas. We accept the various sources for history as reasonably true and accurate even though they contain all the above possible flaws. Having these flaws does not mean the accounts are discounted as reliable sources for the historical events.
The gospel accounts also can be accepted as reliable sources for the events, though they have these flaws and can be mistaken, so they are subject to doubt and have to be compared to other sources for possible discrepancies, as ALL accounts have to be.
You can't use the account itself to prove the account is a reliable description of events. It's circular reasoning.
But the written account is evidence for what happened. Any document saying an event happened is evidence that the event happened. But it's not proof, and ALL the documents are subject to critical scrutiny for possible inaccuracies.
If the document has ZERO value as evidence that the reported events happened, then it also has zero value as corroboration for any other document, which means ALL documents, and thus all recorded history, come crashing down as worthless, no matter how much written evidence there is. Which makes no sense. You have to acknowledge that the report that something happened is evidence that it happened if recorded history is to have any meaning.
Some of recorded history is based on one document only, with no corroboration.
And you can't single out only one set of documents, like the gospel accounts, and say these alone are unreliable and excluded as evidence. There is nothing flawed about the gospel accounts as evidence for historical events that cannot also be said of most other documents used as sources for historical events. Some are more flawed than others, but all have to be accepted as evidence for the events.
The miracle stories make the documents more doubtful but do not disqualify the source as evidence for events. And additional sources for the same miracle claims increase the credibility of those claims.
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