2020 Election Results

[Jason Harvestdancer]

We have had elections here and there where people doubted the legitimacy. Having two in a row is something different. Many people doubted the 2000 election results, nobody doubted the 2004 election results.

 

[Patooka]

We have had elections here and there where people doubted the legitimacy. Having two in a row is something different. Many people doubted the 2000 election results, nobody doubted the 2004 election results.

Nobody doubted 2016 either. Everyone doubted the parties involved and their stated level of involvement. That's why the Republican lead senate voted unanimously to conduct an investigation and voted unanimously again in 2019 to ratify the findings.

Basically everybody except you and you alone was concerned with the level of Russian involvement in the 2016 election.

Incidentally Jason, I'm not sure why you give a flying fuck unless you are arguing in bad faith. The Republican mandated investigation seized so many criminal assets the inquiry paid for itself. One of the very few government initiatives that actually made a profit. A true Libertarian who is against government waste should be over the moon about that.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

We have had elections here and there where people doubted the legitimacy. Having two in a row is something different. Many people doubted the 2000 election results, nobody doubted the 2004 election results.

Nobody doubted 2016 either.

So there weren't any conspiracy theories about Russian hacking, Steele Dossiers, pissing Russian hookers, etc. Good to know.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I know you are confused right now, so I will elaborate.

I like that people are starting to doubt outcomes. I just wish there was some overlap between when Team Blue doubts the outcome and when Team Red doubts the outcome. Unfortunately each team only doubt it when their own side loses and thinks the election was perfectly in order when their own side wins. The two teams must have gotten whiplash over the last 6 years, but neither team seems to have noticed how quickly they themselves moved through "it is rigged, no it is good, no it is rigged, no it is good".

I want people to doubt. I want to encourage those who doubted 2016 and those who doubted 2020, because I want doubt. Once again you are confused by consistency.

I’m glad you admit that you want to destroy public confidence in our electoral process. Public confidence in election integrity is a necessary component of a functional democracy, which is why trump and his rubes have been trying to destroy it for over five years.
You still have not been able to back up your specious assertion that lefties think Cheato didn’t win in 2016, and the power of repetition failed you some time ago on that.

We don't have a functioning democracy though. The system is broken, and public confidence is nothing more than the duct tape holding together the remnants. You need to be able to recognize that there is a problem in the first place before you can start trying to fix it.

Who won the 2020
* popular vote
* electoral vote and
Was the outcome a result of fraud?

If you answer the above truthfully, there is no excuse for undermining people’s confidence in the integrity of the election.

I saw where you tried to hedge, @Jason Harvestdancer , and admitted tha Joe won the EC.
Which implies that he lost some other way.

In what way did Biden not win the 2020 election, Jason?

Fascinating. Let me guess, you are going to try to claim that I never answered who won, even though you admitted you found a post in which I answered you.

The way in which he lost was that he was the second president in a row to have people doubting the legitimacy of the office holder.

There are so many asterisks that go with that statement to render it misleading bullshit.

 

[Patooka]

So there weren't any conspiracy theories about Russian hacking, Steele Dossiers, pissing Russian hookers, etc. Good to know.

I see, so that because you can find a few randos that means absolutely everybody who didn't vote for Trump in 2016 clearly believed the election was stolen. Good to know. Fuck me sideways "libertarians" suffer from some of the worst cognitive dissonance.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So there weren't any conspiracy theories about Russian hacking, Steele Dossiers, pissing Russian hookers, etc. Good to know.

I see, so that because you can find a few randos that means absolutely everybody who didn't vote for Trump in 2016 clearly believed the election was stolen. Good to know. Fuck me sideways "libertarians" suffer from some of the worst cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, MSNBC is just "a few randos".

 

[Patooka]

Yeah, MSNBC is just "a few randos".

Sill struggling with the concept of equivalent I see. Well, keep trying I have faith in you.

 

[ZiprHead]

Mike Pence' chief of staff testified before the J6 committee for several hours today. That's a big one.

 

[ZiprHead]

So there weren't any conspiracy theories about Russian hacking, Steele Dossiers, pissing Russian hookers, etc. Good to know.

I see, so that because you can find a few randos that means absolutely everybody who didn't vote for Trump in 2016 clearly believed the election was stolen. Good to know. Fuck me sideways "libertarians" suffer from some of the worst cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, MSNBC is just "a few randos".

Do you have evidence that someone from MSNBC said Trump didn't win the election?

 

[Gun Nut]

I know you are confused right now, so I will elaborate.

I like that people are starting to doubt outcomes. I just wish there was some overlap between when Team Blue doubts the outcome and when Team Red doubts the outcome. Unfortunately each team only doubt it when their own side loses and thinks the election was perfectly in order when their own side wins. The two teams must have gotten whiplash over the last 6 years, but neither team seems to have noticed how quickly they themselves moved through "it is rigged, no it is good, no it is rigged, no it is good".

I want people to doubt. I want to encourage those who doubted 2016 and those who doubted 2020, because I want doubt. Once again you are confused by consistency.

I’m glad you admit that you want to destroy public confidence in our electoral process. Public confidence in election integrity is a necessary component of a functional democracy, which is why trump and his rubes have been trying to destroy it for over five years.
You still have not been able to back up your specious assertion that lefties think Cheato didn’t win in 2016, and the power of repetition failed you some time ago on that.

We don't have a functioning democracy though. The system is broken, and public confidence is nothing more than the duct tape holding together the remnants. You need to be able to recognize that there is a problem in the first place before you can start trying to fix it.

Who won the 2020
* popular vote
* electoral vote and
Was the outcome a result of fraud?

If you answer the above truthfully, there is no excuse for undermining people’s confidence in the integrity of the election.

I saw where you tried to hedge, @Jason Harvestdancer , and admitted tha Joe won the EC.
Which implies that he lost some other way.

In what way did Biden not win the 2020 election, Jason?

Fascinating. Let me guess, you are going to try to claim that I never answered who won, even though you admitted you found a post in which I answered you.

The way in which he lost was that he was the second president in a row to have people doubting the legitimacy of the office holder. That's too abstract for you, so you'll say that isn't an answer. You'll want an answer a 3rd grader can understand.

Other people are accusing me of not answering already.

You are clearly backpedaling.. You have retreated from a "both sides" position based on a falsehood that "Dems did not believe Donald Trump won the 2016 election" (just like Reps are presently saying Biden did not win the 2020 election), to the weaker position of, "Well, both sides have their doubts about how legit the elected president is"

Uh huh.

OK.

... but maybe shut the fuck up about it being "too abstract" to understand while using completely different words than your retreating, backpeding troll-fail... That's the funny part of your inanity... "Ya, well.. I guess your to stoopid to undertand my subtle meaning when I said the other thing"
lol

 

[Elixir]

You are clearly backpedaling.. You have retreated from a "both sides" position based on a falsehood that "Dems did not believe Donald Trump won the 2016 election" (just like Reps are presently saying Biden did not win the 2020 election), to the weaker position of, "Well, both sides have their doubts about how legit the elected president is"

Just in case Jason is wondering, I have absolutely no doubt about who won the 2016 or 2020 presidential elections, and that those results were legitimately attained through a Constitutionally described process. I'll even venture that no Biden voters here harbor other beliefs.
I don't think we have any right wingers on this forum who would dare say the same thing in public.

Why is that? Most of our right wingers will give a wink and a nod to statements like "there was no massive fraud" or "the election was not stolen" but they do not evince that view themselves. Instead, they endorse The Big Lie either tacitly or by implication with smarmy statements about "both sides".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You are clearly backpedaling.. You have retreated from a "both sides" position based on a falsehood that "Dems did not believe Donald Trump won the 2016 election" (just like Reps are presently saying Biden did not win the 2020 election), to the weaker position of, "Well, both sides have their doubts about how legit the elected president is"

Just in case Jason is wondering, I have absolutely no doubt about who won the 2016 or 2020 presidential elections, and that those results were legitimately attained through a Constitutionally described process. I'll even venture that no Biden voters here harbor other beliefs.

2016 was about any potential conspiracy between the Trump Campaign and Russia to aid in meddling in Trump's favor for favors. Such things like a secret meeting with Moscow affiliates and the top members of the Trump Campaign about information against Hillary Clinton (via emails Trump Jr released), Trump pressing hard on (also firing) Comey to drop investigation into Flynn, among other things. Which all led to Trump's DoJ (not the Democrats) launching the Special Prosecutor investigation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You are clearly backpedaling.. You have retreated from a "both sides" position based on a falsehood that "Dems did not believe Donald Trump won the 2016 election" (just like Reps are presently saying Biden did not win the 2020 election), to the weaker position of, "Well, both sides have their doubts about how legit the elected president is"

Just in case Jason is wondering, I have absolutely no doubt about who won the 2016 or 2020 presidential elections, and that those results were legitimately attained through a Constitutionally described process. I'll even venture that no Biden voters here harbor other beliefs.

2016 was about any potential conspiracy between the Trump Campaign and Russia to aid in meddling in Trump's favor for favors. Such things like a secret meeting with Moscow affiliates and the top members of the Trump Campaign about information against Hillary Clinton (via emails Trump Jr released), Trump pressing hard on (also firing) Comey to drop investigation into Flynn, among other things. Which all led to Trump's DoJ (not the Democrats) launching the Special Prosecutor investigation.

There was also one other thing. The huge stabbing pain of the evangelicals voting en masse for Trump, after all of their fucking whining about morality since Monica Lewinsky. We endured 20 or so years of that shit from the "Religious Right", and then they come out, in wild vocal support for Trump... even after "grabbing them by the pussy".

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There was also one other thing. The huge stabbing pain of the evangelicals voting en masse for Trump, after all of their fucking whining about morality since Monica Lewinsky. We endured 20 or so years of that shit from the "Religious Right", and then they come out, in wild vocal support for Trump... even after "grabbing them by the pussy".

Wow, that came straight out of nowhere. Is that supposed to connect to something somewhere? Does anyone know what you are talking about?

 

[ZiprHead]

There was also one other thing. The huge stabbing pain of the evangelicals voting en masse for Trump, after all of their fucking whining about morality since Monica Lewinsky. We endured 20 or so years of that shit from the "Religious Right", and then they come out, in wild vocal support for Trump... even after "grabbing them by the pussy".

Wow, that came straight out of nowhere. Is that supposed to connect to something somewhere? Does anyone know what you are talking about?

Context believes in you even though you may not believe in context.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I can see no connection between the discussion to this point and Jimmy's post.

 

[ZiprHead]

I can see no connection between the discussion to this point and Jimmy's post.

Maybe you should clean those rose colored glasses.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I can see no connection between the discussion to this point and Jimmy's post.

Maybe you should clean those rose colored glasses.

Maybe it should be explained more clearly. All I see is an attempted guilt by nonexistent association.

 

[Swammerdami]

There was also one other thing. The huge stabbing pain of the evangelicals voting en masse for Trump, after all of their fucking whining about morality since Monica Lewinsky. We endured 20 or so years of that shit from the "Religious Right", and then they come out, in wild vocal support for Trump... even after "grabbing them by the pussy".

Wow, that came straight out of nowhere. Is that supposed to connect to something somewhere? Does anyone know what you are talking about?

The word "Democrat" has three silent k's.

I can't speak for the other JH, but I can speak for YOU, Mr. Harvestdancer.

You seem to believe in a false equivalence. You seem to believe that
(a) R's claiming the 2020 election was stolen and that Trump is the rightful President; die-hard Trumplickers even assaulting the nation's Capitol, committing mayhem and literally smearing shit on the Capitol's walls; R's declaring that Trumnp is the rightful President including Members of Congress and other high-placed R officials; all this despite Biden's popular vote landslide;
and
(b) D's pointing out that Trump's 2016 victory benefited from Kremlin-driven lies, idiosyncrasies in the electoral college system, and events like Comey's last-minute statement, while NEVER ever saying Trump was not legally elected. (Can you cite even ONE single Democrat who says otherwise, excepting obvious clowns?)
... are essentially the same.

Does that sum up your stance pretty well? If not — if I am mistaken about you — please correct this misunderstanding. (Kindly state your recantation with simple words in the form of a sober and objective statement rather than useless nasty invective.)

Can you do that? I'm guessing No and — although I am not authorized to speak for him — I'll guess that Mr. Higgins deviated from the strict topic in a (futile) effort to pound sense into your head.

Disputed elections are as American as apple pie. Naturally many D's were annoyed that Trump won in 2016, and happy to point out connections like Kremlin lies, Facebook and Comey seeming to help Trump, and so on. But they did not challenge the election, let alone declaring it "stolen;" and certainly did NOT smear shit on the Capitol walls.

Recall the 1960 election where Kennedy won both Texas and Illinois through likely foul play. Had Nixon taken both states to court and won both, then Nixon, and not JFK, would have become the 35th President of the United States. Yet he did not do that. Despite (later) being widely condemned as a criminal President, he was enough of a patriot, and had enough respect for the electoral system, to wish JFK a happy Presidency without ever pursuing the probable cheating in Illinois and Texas.

That's right, the behavior of the R's between the 2020 election and the 2021 inauguration (and continuing to the present) is almost unprecedented in American history. Did you really not understand this?

I'm curious why you post your "beliefs" resting on the false equivalence. Do you think you will sway the opinion of any Infidel? When your fellow Infidels read these opinions of yours, what do you think we feel about you and your "knowledge"?

 

[TomC]

We have had elections here and there where people doubted the legitimacy. Having two in a row is something different. Many people doubted the 2000 election results, nobody doubted the 2004 election results.

We don't have presidential elections here in the USA.
People vote. But it's not an election of the President.

The president is appointed by the Electoral College. The Electoral College delegates are appointed by state legislatures.
Nothing like a free and fair election. People only seem to notice that when the EC doesn't produce the results they want.

But let's face it, the last time a Republican non-incumbent won the American vote was in the 80s. Two of three incumbents lost, despite the advantages provided by incumbency.
Republicans do not represent the American electorate and haven't in decades.
Tom