3I/ATLAS: Probably NOT an alien interstellar probe

[Jarhyn]

The question is whether we can "tag" an interstellar rock like this one on its way through with something that can soak up enough energy somewhere along its pathway to activate and hijack it, ride that out of the star's gravity well, and then when in a relatively gravitationally neutral environment, select a nearby destination somewhere in the cone of deflection given the previously collected energy, and then give the rock a bit of a kick, and doing some math/observation on the way to determine fine tuning on trajectory to get info, and maybe make a gravity acceleration or get more energy from the star.

That’s a QUESTION?
If so, the answer is “NO”. We cannot.
We are not currently able to do that.

It will take maybe 100 years at most to be able to do as much and more, assuming no dark age.

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

It requires very little energy to acquire a proper carrier, and very little energy after to steer following an exit from the system.

All it requires I terms of energy and hardware is being ready and being able to make some decision as to what targets to path towards, and being able to get close enough to catch it with a fairly trivial amount of mass.

 

[Elixir]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

 

[Shadowy Man]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

 

[Elixir]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

 

[Jarhyn]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

We can make a rocket that makes a very small piece of it go that far, with absolutely no additional material or structure to build with or use thereafter.

Imagine if all you had the ability to do was to shoot the space rock with something the size of a bullet that will impact it at high speed.

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

Something very small could achieve a nonviolent impact, I think, but ideally any deflection sends it on towards whatever alternative target, anyway.

It might take longer to wait for a suitable interloper, though, than it would to engineer a useful payload

 

[steve_bank]

Things to do when traveling on an interstellar rock:

1. Take a walk around the rock in a space suit.
2. Gaze at the stars.
3. Contemplate meaning of life.
4. Go to #1.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

 

[Jarhyn]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

Intercept courses with small payloads. Imagine a gun on the end of a rocket or somesuch: you just have to cross paths with it, depending on the payload.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

Intercept courses with small payloads. Imagine a gun on the end of a rocket or somesuch: you just have to cross paths with it, depending on the payload.

Ok. I guess I was assuming a softer “tag”. Where you might want the thing being tagged onto it to survive the impact of what would likely be a massive delta v.

 

[bilby]

It sounds like catching a rifle bullet in your teeth, only far more difficult, and far messier when you find out the hard way that it's not actually possible.

Either you get your payload up to very close to the velocity of the interloper (in which case, why do you need an interloper at all?); Or you let the interloper atomise your payload on impact (in which case, why not just atomise the payload on the ground, for the same effect at far lower cost?).

 

[DBT]

Damnation, Physics, it never cooperates.

 

[Jarhyn]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

Intercept courses with small payloads. Imagine a gun on the end of a rocket or somesuch: you just have to cross paths with it, depending on the payload.

Ok. I guess I was assuming a softer “tag”. Where you might want the thing being tagged onto it to survive the impact of what would likely be a massive delta v.

Many things impact earth and even after the impact, are still cold.

I'm thinking something at a biological scale, with the same kind of game theory sperms are playing: out of millions of units, only one needs to survive. Combined with the survivability of, say, a tardigrade, and you can be a lot more extreme with the payload.

The goal is to start a chemical reaction that turns the intruder into a trojan horse of sorts.

Of course engineering that might take quite a while, but what else are we going to do with that much time once singularity happens?

I don't see a much more efficient or low-effort way to travel than painting space rocks with bugs.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

Intercept courses with small payloads. Imagine a gun on the end of a rocket or somesuch: you just have to cross paths with it, depending on the payload.

Ok. I guess I was assuming a softer “tag”. Where you might want the thing being tagged onto it to survive the impact of what would likely be a massive delta v.

Many things impact earth and even after the impact, are still cold.

Two points:

1) what’s the delta v in these cases? Neither object is moving at a velocity that can escape the solar system.

2) the earth has an atmosphere, so the impact happens over a large distance and the impactor goes through a lot of ablation.

 

[Jarhyn]

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

Intercept courses with small payloads. Imagine a gun on the end of a rocket or somesuch: you just have to cross paths with it, depending on the payload.

Ok. I guess I was assuming a softer “tag”. Where you might want the thing being tagged onto it to survive the impact of what would likely be a massive delta v.

Many things impact earth and even after the impact, are still cold.

Two points:

1) what’s the delta v in these cases? Neither object is moving at a velocity that can escape the solar system.

2) the earth has an atmosphere, so the impact happens over a large distance and the impact or goes through a lot of ablation.

If it's an interstellar pass-through, one is guaranteed to have enough velocity to escape.

Technically, getting to an escape velocity for a very small amount of mass is absolutely attainable; the hard part is getting enough escape velocity on enough mass to be useful, but when most of that mass is already "on its way", that's less of a concern.

Also, there are plenty of of ways to design a projectile that will ablate most of its impact, if the goal is to have something at the scale of a tardigrade survive the impact.

The idea is that once the rock has been infected, there are thousands of years during its transit to fully affect any change necessary to spread spores our during a pass-through on the next system.

Slow and steady and efficient wins the universe.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I guess I still don’t understand. Sorry. If you want to send a small amount of mass outside the solar system and you can achieve escape velocity before you tag the interstellar object what would be the advantage of riding the interstellar object?

Maybe if you be more quantitative about the velocities you are considering I might be better able to understand?. Sorry, I’m sure the failing is on my part as I have a particular picture in my head that may not attune with yours and you may need to lead me there more simply.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Sorry. I missed the part of you saying you only needed something microscopic to survive the impact and ride along with the object. Thats probably doable without needing to match velocities.

 

[Elixir]

Í

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

Right! We’re never going to match its speed and if we could, why bother?
I was suggesting getting the payload object into its path and letting the interstellar object hit it. A little disclaimer label “Not responsible for damage due to impacts” should absolve the engineers of any responsibility.

 

[Jarhyn]

Í

I mean, if we're being serious, that's going to be the absolute easiest way to get out of the solar system by far.

I think you mean it's the easiest way to send something out of the solar system. It lets you "get out" of the solar system exactly as effectively as does any other flight of fancy, stimulated though it may be by actual signals of actual distant origin. We could probably figure out how to tag something onto an interstellar intruder like that 31/Atlas thingy, but so what?

if we can make a rocket that can catch up to one of these why would we need to tag a ride?

I didn’t specify what was to be “sent” - No way anything is going to “catch” an interstellar interloper there would HAVE to be a super violent impact, and it might take kilotons of rock to absorb and accelerate a few grams of earth matter to near it’s speed. Hopefully the impact doesn’t slow the object down enough for it to be captured… if it does, go lighter or get a bigger interstellar object!

I didn’t say “catch” it, I said “catch up to it”. How else will you “tag something to it” unless you can match its speed and position? And if we can get something up to that speed then we don’t need to tag along with it because we are already on the same trajectory, no?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. Sorry.

Right! We’re never going to match its speed and if we could, why bother?
I was suggesting getting the payload object into its path and letting the interstellar object hit it. A little disclaimer label “Not responsible for damage due to impacts” should absolve the engineers of any responsibility.

I mean, depending on how the thing is constructed, most of the impact can be absorbed strategically, so as to strayegically spare an inner payload.