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A picture of the influence of disinformation

To observe that people who think Donald Trump would make a good President are totally divorced from reality, is not news, nor is it necessary to conduct an opinion poll in order to reach that bleeding obvious conclusion.

That Trump supporters believe the economy is shrinking is the least of their problems with undertanding the differences between fact and fantasy.

Indeed, one of the big problems here is that the news media are still clinging to the bizarre idea that this election is normal in any sense; That such things as opinions about the economy are central to the outcome.

That was true for a long time; But it's not true anymore. And hasn't been for almost a decade now.

People were comfortable picking between two old white dudes to elect the one they thought would keep the economy (stupid) running smoothly.

But now the redneck, bigoted, fuckwit losers who still think the Confederacy had the right idea have been stirred up like a hornets nest. The economy is not relevant, if the libs are going to destroy AmericaTM by putting a nigger in the White House, or trying to put a woman there.

Fuck the economy; We need the biggest, most bigoted, most populist, and most anti-liberal figurehead we can find. Those damn Yankees are acting as though they won the Civil War or something, and we're mad as hell (in literally every sense of the word "mad").

The majority are fed up with being ruled by an elite who are out of touch with what the good, hard-working, anti-intellectual, racist, petty fascist morons want! It's time to take back our country from people who think they can tell us what to do, just because they bothered to do thinking about what would be a good or a bad idea first, and shit!

No more of this thinking crap! We demand government by emotion! We need more of that nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts, that FDR called for when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!
 
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Traffic is the worst it has ever been where I live. Why? Everybody is working. Yet the Trump folks around here, a majority of the population, say the economy is in shambles.
 
Because I know little about the complexities of the economy, yet I hear lots of opinions that seem dubious considering there are similar issues outside my own country. I google “what’s causing inflation” and it’s pretty unanimous by all accounts that RUS/UKR war, post covid spending (fuelling greedflation) and climate issues are top of the heap.

It seems Biden’s infrastructure bill is keeping the US going pretty strong.

In Canada, we’re going to vote out a competent yet “meh” govt in favour of a bunch of convoy clowns thanks to dissinfo about inflation.
 
To observe that people who think Donald Trump would make a good President are totally divorced from reality, is not news, nor is it necessary to conduct an opinion poll in order to reach that bleeding obvious conclusion.

When I first came to Thailand and compared its governance to America's, I felt smugly superior as an American. Thais often deliberately vote for criminals, thinking that a man smart enough to get rich through criminality must be talented enough to make a good P.M. I also interviewed Thais voting for an opposition party because they blamed the incumbents for the drought.

But now I feel that Thailand's democracy, while severely flawed, is superior to America's; and many citizens' electoral decisions are smarter.
 
Sadly, it wasn't only Republicans that believe we are in a recession. Something like 45% of Democrats agreed with that. I said in a different thread that economics should be a required course in public schools, as apparently most people have no idea how anything related to economics work. Plus, it's not just the white rednecks who are Trumps supporters. An increasing number of mostly males, who are Black or Hispanic are being sucked up into the Trump cult. Not a majority, but enough to give Trump a victory. If I'm not mistaken, about 20% of Black males say they will vote for Truump. I hope they aren't being truthful when they say these things. And, then there are the young who won't vote or even vote for Trump because they don't like some of Biden's policies. OMG! No president is perfect and no president can get much of anything done without the support of Congress. Idiocracy has come to America.

And let me add, that I am sick of those who say they won't support Biden because of. his support of Israel. Yes. Nettie is like Trump but where were those people who are so outraged over Israel, when the US killed over 350,000 civilians during the so called war on terror? This happened under several presidents, but I don't remember the outrage and protests over that. War is hell. War is an evil that we inherited from some of the other apes and sadly, we haven't outgrown it and probably never will. If you don't believe those statistics, do your own DD. There are numerous sources that have investigated how many civilians the US killed following 911.

I do wish that Biden would cut us off from Israel for now, but I also understand the consequences of doing it. He's between a rock and hard place and he's been trying to reason with a far right nut job to end the war, which was started by Hamas. it's a big fucking mess, but it's no reason not to vote for the better choice, the only one who wants to help maintain democracy. Speaking of which, more than half of the country supports Israel. It's a lot more complicated than some of the naive and poorly informed seem to think. Sadly, Nettie is doing pretty much what the US did during the war on terror, killing people who had nothing to do with 911, just like he's killing people who had nothing to do with 10/07. Humans are the worst mammals on the planet. No. I'm not going to argue about any of this. That would be pointless.
 
I said in a different thread that economics should be a required course in public schools, as apparently most people have no idea how anything related to economics work.
Some kind of requirement for public education would appear to be in order, but it probably wouldn't help.

Most people have no idea how anything related to physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, theology, mathematics, history, economics, statistics, marketing, criminology, sociology, geography, geology, cosmology, law, road traffic management, art, music, or logic work.

To be fair though, unlike most people, I have no idea which Kardashian is which. Yet this latter information appears to be widely known, despite not being taught in (most) schools.
 
And let me add, that I am sick of those who say they won't support Biden because of. his support of Israel. Yes. Nettie is like Trump but where were those people who are so outraged over Israel, when the US killed over 350,000 civilians during the so called war on terror?
I strongly opposed those wars as well. I marched against them. I campaigned against those who supported them, Biden included. Being then of age, I had plans in place in case a draft should be reinstated. I boycotted my campus cafeteria because paying more or going hungry were preferable to giving Halliburton a dime, because despite what the news may have told you, campus divestment is not a newfangled invention. I undermined the ideology of state violence through my daily work in education. By the same means, I helped the veterans in my community, no less victims of the conflict, recover their lives and start real careers when they finally got to come home. Many were exactly the same age as me, but six to eight years behind on their careers because they believed the lies they were told about Afghanistan and Iraq and thought they had to fight to save their families, when they did not. Or believed the lies of some recruiter who promised them a job and a future in exchange for temporary servitude, though there was never a plan to insure any such future for them. Many now had drug addictions or mental trauma to contend with as additional barriers to their success. Once the waves of veterans had come through, it was time for a new wave of victims to help, Afghanis and Iraqis who in exchange for sacrficing their lives on your behalf were falsely promised a good life in the United States as a reward for their service, only to discover that they are despised second class citizens in this country, expected to survive on a laughable pittance despite being nearly unhirable on account of their race and creed. These days I do my best to help them, too. In this and many other ways, I have dedicated much of my life to an active rejection of the entire concept of a "war on terror" (which somehow never seems to make Americans any less terrified of Islam than they were before they went to war) and my advocacy is always for the victims of such a wicked concept, not sympathy for those who start the next round. The question of why I still do is no mystery.

The more quixotic question is why you have turned your back on human rights and now endorse the war that Trump and his cabal of dictatorial allies intentionally escalated in Israel. Is it really worth it to you to throw away every moral concept you once embraced, just because a "Democrat" is now telling you to do it instead of a "Republican"? When the cameras are off, these polticians laugh at the game of partisanship. It is useful to them to maintain the fiction of ideological conviction, when their families' social and economic interests will always be the true drivers of their actions.

The question of why I continue to oppose purposeless state violence is simple and consistent. In taking innocent lives, governments steal what they never had any true right to, the hearts and bodies of citizens who have no choice but to be born into that vicious political construct we call a nation, that sees them as fodder to be traded instead of souls to be respected. I have never approved of state-sponsored religious ethnocide in any context, nor for that matter have I ever supported US adventurism abroad to begin with. We have enough problems at home without starting wars in other nations. Modern garland wars cannot be "won", only set aside when both sides finally tire of the slaughter and go home.
 
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State of the economy can be manipulated in short term, or even for longer.
The issue is not manipulation of the economy, but a lack of understanding of what's going on.

It's akin to I'm going to vote for Trump because the sun sets in the south.
 
And let me add, that I am sick of those who say they won't support Biden because of. his support of Israel. Yes. Nettie is like Trump but where were those people who are so outraged over Israel, when the US killed over 350,000 civilians during the so called war on terror?
I strongly opposed those wars as well. I marched against them. I campaigned against those who supported them, Biden included. Being then of age, I had plans in place in case a draft should be reinstated. I boycotted my campus cafeteria because paying more or going hungry were preferable to giving Halliburton a dime, because despite what the news may have told you, campus divestment is not a newfangled invention. I undermined the ideology of state violence through my daily work in education. By the same means, I helped the veterans in my community, no less victims of the conflict, recover their lives and start real careers when they finally got to come home. Many were exactly the same age as me, but six to eight years behind on their careers because they believed the lies they were told about Afghanistan and Iraq and thought they had to fight to save their families, when they did not. Or believed the lies of some recruiter who promised them a job and a future in exchange for temporary servitude, though there was never a plan to insure any such future for them. Many now had drug addictions or mental trauma to contend with as additional barriers to their success. Once the waves of veterans had come through, it was time for a new wave of victims to help, Afghanis and Iraqis who in exchange for sacrficing their lives on your behalf were falsely promised a good life in the United States as a reward for their service, only to discover that they are despised second class citizens in this country, expected to survive on a laughable pittance despite being nearly unhirable on account of their race and creed. These days I do my best to help them, too. In this and many other ways, I have dedicated much of my life to an active rejection of the entire concept of a "war on terror" (which somehow never seems to make Americans any less terrified of Islam than they were before they went to war) and my advocacy is always for the victims of such a wicked concept, not sympathy for those who start the next round. The question of why I still do is no mystery.

The more quixotic question is why you have turned your back on human rights and now endorse the war that Trump and his cabal of dictatorial allies intentionally escalated in Israel. Is it really worth it to you to throw away every moral concept you once embraced, just because a "Democrat" is now telling you to do it instead of a "Republican"? When the cameras are off, these polticians laugh at the game of partisanship. It is useful to them to maintain the fiction of ideological conviction, when their families' social and economic interests will always be the true drivers of their actions.

The question of why I continue to oppose purposeless state violence is simple and consistent. In taking innocent lives, governments steal what they never had any true right to, the hearts and bodies of citizens who have no choice but to be born into that vicious political construct we call a nation, that sees them as fodder to be traded instead of souls to be respected. I have never approved of state-sponsored religious ethnocide in any context, nor for that matter have I ever supported US adventurism abroad to begin with. We have enough problems at home without starting wars in other nations. Modern garland wars cannot be "won", only set aside when both sides finally tire of the slaughter and go home.
I don't and have never supported any war. I mentioned that I wished Biden would withdraw his support of Israel but I never judge a president based on one thing that I don't like. I just realize that this is how humans act and it's pretty hopeless to expect things to change. I've demonstrated during my youth and it was worthless, imo. I was horrified when Bush started the War on Terror. My son was could have been drafted if that was brought back and he is a very gentle, harmless type person, who never could have adjusted to being in the military. Still, I don't judge those who did what they thought was right at the time or were forced to do. I marched with veterans who returned home from Nam, after becoming anti war, btw. I read yesterday that our generals supported an Afghanistan native who tortured or killed anyone he suspected of being involved with the Taliban, regardless of the lack of evidence. This went on under several presidents. I have no idea if they knew about it, but the generals did know what he was doing and then the man was assassinated in 2018. The NYT did a long investigation and discovered the horrific things the man had done. War is hell. One reason I said this is complicated is because more than half of the country currently supports Israel and it's very difficult for any president to know how to react in such difficult situations. Nothing is ever easy when it comes to many of the things that Biden is dealing with or what any president faces. All I know is that he is doing a decent job for the most part, and if Trump becomes president, we are in danger of becoming an autocracy. Sadly almost his entire party supports his cruelty, and incompetence. So, I'll take a less than perfect president over a psychopathic dangerous one any day. I can't count the number of times I've voted for someone, not because I've agree with all of their policies but because they were a much better choice compared to the alternative. Anyone who refuses to vote for Biden is poorly informed and acting emotionally instead of rationally.

Where I lived at the time, there were no demonstrations against the War on Terror, which as you know was based on massive misinformation. Most wars have been horrible mistakes in retrospect, but as I said before, as a species, we are fucking, violent apes and I don't see that changing. Plus, I see no differnce between soldiers who are killed in wars or civilians who are killed in wars. Both are horrible. The survivors suffer greatly and the survivors of wars often end up like my late father who suffered from severe PTSD, which I've mentioned before, probably more times than necessary. Btw, he put his American flag in the distress position when Bush went into Iraq and some asshole cut it down at night. My father told me that my generation was right for being against the Viet Nam War, but the truth is that not all of my generation was against the war. We often were confronted with screams against us when we demonstrated. Very few of my generation went from liberal to conservative. That's a lie. We may have become more realistic and less idealistic, but we are still the same as we were before when it comes to how we vote. All of my boomer friends always vote for the Blue party. regardless if we agree with all of the policies of the person we support.

But what did we accomplish by our demonstrations? Nothing! And, a least where I lived, the demonstrations were always peaceful. WE didn't set up encampments, take over property or destroy property. We didn't interrupt graduations ceremonies. That never helps. In fact, it hurts what you're trying to accomplish. It's self righteous, imo, to think that one's opinion is the only right one, and your actions are going to help solve anything. I'd have a lot more respect for those who are tearing things up, if they unified to support the many organizations that are tying to provide some relief instead of acting like idiots. At least that might help even one person get a meal or a bit of needed medical care. I have much more respect for organizations like Doctors Without Borders or the groups that try to being food into Palestine. They are putting their lives on the line without tearing up property. Ok. I already said I didn't want to argue about this and you've already misjudged me, so let's call a truce and stop this nonsense. I know you mean well, but you seem not to be able to understand how others feel, which is why, despite my personal feelings about what's going on in the Mideast, I understand the complexities and I also understand there are plenty of other horrific things that are going on in the world, but nobody reacts to those things. We live in sad, dangerous times and it will only get a lot worse, if Trump has another term, or two or three as he is threatening. I don't want to believe that could happen, but history says it's possible so my primary goal and concern is that the worst president ever will get elected this November.

I just read another article about his plans to round up undocumented immigrants, including those who have been living here for decades and contributing to society. FDR has always been praised for the good things he did, but he also locked up Japanese residents in interment camps, simple because of their ethnicity. Point being, that all of our past presidents have done harmful things to innocent people. But Trump is the greatest danger to the country since its early days......So, if these demonstrators don't support Biden, they are fools.

Sorry for going all over the place with this rant. I'm just mad as hell at what's going on all over the world and I certainly don't blame a president who has been trying to reason with a far right maniac. If Hamas would release the remaining hostages, that would certainly help. Nettie can't stop Hamas by what he's doing anymore than the US could stop the Taliban by what we did. There is no easy way out of this mess. Okay. I promised to stop....I'll try..... :eek:
 
I don't want to believe that could happen, but history says it's possible so my primary goal and concern is that the worst president ever will get elected this November.
That much is all but certain. We lost this election the second the Democrats bought South Carolina for Biden in the last one, and tanked their only candidate with populist appeal. Whatever one may think of Biden, we need to be planning for what comes next. Trump is returning, and I'm not certain he'll be so easy to get rid of the second time around.
 
But what did we accomplish by our demonstrations? Nothing! And, a least where I lived, the demonstrations were always peaceful.
You ever think about whether there may have been a connection between those two facts? To paraphrase a tee shirt from your generation, well-behaved protestors rarely make history. These protestors have already saved hundreds of thousands of lives in Gaza, by forcing Biden to moderate, indeed nearly reverse, his public position on these war crimes. And distance himself from his former ally. You shame the protestors, but it was Biden's choice to travel to Israel and directly incite violence. His responsibility. His pride, even. He thought it was going to be a public relations coup for him, that support for Israel was unbreakable, that his tough guy act would be good for poll numbers. So his admistration made sure that speech was being broadcast on every TV in the country, "left" and "right" and in everywhere between. But things didn't go quite as he expected, and that is on him, not on those who called him on it. If eighteen year olds are criminals for occupying a lecture hall, what does that make someone who throws gasoline on a fire that kills 42,000 people? Between murder and vandalism, I see murder as a much more severe crime. He did not have to do what he did, but he did, and because he is the American president we all will suffer the consequences of his choice for the next twenty or thirty or forty years. You'll probably be dead and in the ground before the situation with Iran truly explodes, so in some ways I guess it isn't your personal problem. But these kids you're condemning, they will have to live the whole awful thing through. Their lives have already been ruined by the choices of their grandparents, and the blow they know perfectly is coming hasn't even landed yet.

Would you really be proud if you'd stayed home, back then? Looking back, do you wish you'd shut up about the war and just let all those Vietnamese children get their skin flayed off without even so much as a lazy vocal protest? You say that more than half of the US public supports Israel, which is true, but was also true of the campaign in Vietnam, before the protests began and the death toll started to rise.
 
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I don't want to believe that could happen, but history says it's possible so my primary goal and concern is that the worst president ever will get elected this November.
That much is all but certain. We lost this election the second the Democrats bought South Carolina for Biden in the last one, and tanked their only candidate with populist appeal. Whatever one may think of Biden, we need to be planning for what comes next. Trump is returning, and I'm not certain he'll be so easy to get rid of the second time around.
Biden will almost certainly win the next election, and by a bigger margin than the 2020 one in popular votes, and also in Electoral College points.
In the extremely unlikely case that Trump wins (and that is also dependent on if he is already in prison prior to the election) then one would hope that certain curative actions are taken.
 
I don't want to believe that could happen, but history says it's possible so my primary goal and concern is that the worst president ever will get elected this November.
That much is all but certain. We lost this election the second the Democrats bought South Carolina for Biden in the last one, and tanked their only candidate with populist appeal. Whatever one may think of Biden, we need to be planning for what comes next. Trump is returning, and I'm not certain he'll be so easy to get rid of the second time around.
Biden will almost certainly win the next election, and by a bigger margin than the 2020 one in popular votes, and also in Electoral College points.
In the extremely unlikely case that Trump wins (and that is also dependent on if he is already in prison prior to the election) then one would hope that certain curative actions are taken.
Even if Biden somehow wins, what "curative actions" do you think are going to be taken if the population does not demand them? Biden is by personality a war hawk. He supported the war in Vietnam (he called southernhybrid and the other protestors "assholes" for protesting a war whose draft he dodged five times, the coward). Then again In Iraq. In Afghanistan. In Iraq the Sequel. In Syria. Left strictly to his own devices, it is hard to imagine an American war Joe Biden would be willing to oppose.

But he is also a creature of the polls, and responds swiftly and chaotically to any sense that support within his base might be slipping. Protesting what Trump does is meaningless, he's a blustering fool who takes advice from no one. But Biden is different: he bows to public pressure readily. If and and when there is public pressure. If the protestors go home and everyone just shuts up and supports Biden no matter what, then he has no motivation to do anything except that which he thinks won him the election: Fightin' Joe. But if he thinks doing so might hurt his reputation, or worse, his re-election odds, he will back down. We know he will, because he already has. The protests worked.
 
I don't want to believe that could happen, but history says it's possible so my primary goal and concern is that the worst president ever will get elected this November.
That much is all but certain. We lost this election the second the Democrats bought South Carolina for Biden in the last one, and tanked their only candidate with populist appeal. Whatever one may think of Biden, we need to be planning for what comes next. Trump is returning, and I'm not certain he'll be so easy to get rid of the second time around.
The democrats "bought South Carolina for Biden"? Ohh, that is bordering on maga paranoia. I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding you. How do you mean, bought for Biden? Biden beat Sanders in south Carolina. Biden won the state by 150,000 votes. 48% to 18%.
 
I don't want to believe that could happen, but history says it's possible so my primary goal and concern is that the worst president ever will get elected this November.
That much is all but certain. We lost this election the second the Democrats bought South Carolina for Biden in the last one, and tanked their only candidate with populist appeal. Whatever one may think of Biden, we need to be planning for what comes next. Trump is returning, and I'm not certain he'll be so easy to get rid of the second time around.
The democrats "bought South Carolina for Biden"? Ohh, that is bordering on maga paranoia.
I didn't mean illegally or secretly or something, what they did was above board and public, so I don't see how it is "maga paranoia" to observe it. There is only one way to win a US Presidential election, no matter who you are.

$$$

I get a text from the Biden election campaign like two or three times a day solemnly assuring me that he'll lose if I don't send him my life savings tonight, so I don't know why you think I'm alleging some sort of conspiracy. I mean, the same party literally handed South Carolina $100,000 dollars earlier this week to boost voter registration efforts. This is just how the electoral game is played. SC is also one of the most expensive ballots in the country to get onto in the first place, requiring a $20,000 bribe registration fee to get listed at all. They make a pretty penny on the whole system!
 
I don't want to believe that could happen, but history says it's possible so my primary goal and concern is that the worst president ever will get elected this November.
That much is all but certain. We lost this election the second the Democrats bought South Carolina for Biden in the last one, and tanked their only candidate with populist appeal. Whatever one may think of Biden, we need to be planning for what comes next. Trump is returning, and I'm not certain he'll be so easy to get rid of the second time around.
The democrats "bought South Carolina for Biden"? Ohh, that is bordering on maga paranoia.
I didn't mean illegally or secretly or something, what they did was above board and public, so I don't see how it is "maga paranoia" to observe it. There is only one way to win a US Presidential election, no matter who you are.

$$$

I get a text from the Biden election campaign like two or three times a day solemnly assuring me that he'll lose if I don't send him my life savings tonight, so I don't know why you think I'm alleging some sort of conspiracy. I mean, the same party literally handed South Carolina $100,000 dollars earlier this week to boost voter registration efforts. This is just how the electoral game is played. SC is also one of the most expensive ballots in the country to get onto in the first place, requiring a $20,000 bribe registration fee to get listed at all. They make a pretty penny on the whole system!
Money wins most of the time. Of course, the more a candidate is liked, the more money flows in their campaign most of the time. However, not all the time. At the time of the south carolina primary, Sanders was ahead of Biden and was spending far more than Biden:

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/01/810813892/4-takeaways-from-joe-bidens-big-win-in-south-carolina.

Biden beat Sanders because he appealed more to the southern voters; and he got momentum.
 
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