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A White teacher taught White students about White privilege. It cost him his job.

Can you name a college or university, just one, that discriminates in favor of Whites and Asians? Plenty openly admit discriminating against these groups. What sort of privilege is that?

While the result may be the same the reason for discrimination is different. Affirmative action, for example, is holding slots at the school for individuals of color because of the history of America's oppression of black people. It's an attempt to allow people of color to catch up after centuries of being kept out. What you call discrimination is white students being turned away because there aren't any slots left. While discrimination against blacks meant an entirely different thing.

Personally, I don't agree with the approach by affirmative action but it was better than inaction. I prefer the approach VIA comprehensive laws against discrimination that are enforced with a precise & heavy hand even if that means dragging a sitting CEO, congressperson, president, or supreme court justice and others out by the feet and off to jail to uphold it. And you can't pay your way out either.
 
Are you proposing that I lie to my lender? If It was legal for me to provide false information in the process of obtaining credit I'd tell them I was white, not part white. That is to assure I get the full benefits of being white, not partial benefits. :giggle:

Well, that’s the point. Why do White people like Elizabeth Warren lie about their racial ancestry? Because the current societal advantage favors non-White identity. If White Privilege bestowed advantage, why do so many want to be seen as not White?
Warren didn't lie. She repeated the story she had grown up with about her ancestry. She believed what she was told.
 
Well, that’s the point. Why do White people like Elizabeth Warren lie about their racial ancestry? Because the current societal advantage favors non-White identity. If White Privilege bestowed advantage, why do so many want to be seen as not White?

I presume she did it because it increased her odds of getting what she wanted if it were a calculated effort. But why was she discriminated against and felt the need to hide her whiteness? Was it because they thought she was inferior? Did they think she wasn't a human & didn't have the right to apply? Even facing racial discrimination white people have a privilege. :ROFLMAO:
 
Are you proposing that I lie to my lender? If It was legal for me to provide false information in the process of obtaining credit I'd tell them I was white, not part white. That is to assure I get the full benefits of being white, not partial benefits. :giggle:

Well, that’s the point. Why do White people like Elizabeth Warren lie about their racial ancestry? Because the current societal advantage favors non-White identity. If White Privilege bestowed advantage, why do so many want to be seen as not White?
Warren didn't lie. She repeated the story she had grown up with about her ancestry. She believed what she was told.

When she noted her race/ethnicity, did she include the White part or curiously tried to erase it?
 
While the result may be the same the reason for discrimination is different. Affirmative action, for example, is holding slots at the school for individuals of color because of the history of America's oppression of black people. It's an attempt to allow people of color to catch up after centuries of being kept out. What you call discrimination is white students being turned away because there aren't any slots left. While discrimination against blacks meant an entirely different thing.

However you wish to rationalize it, it’s legalized discrimination based on racial ancestry. If White Privilege exists, it’s a pretty useless privilege.
 
However you wish to rationalize it, it’s legalized discrimination based on racial ancestry. If White Privilege exists, it’s a pretty useless privilege.

You can rationalize it away with as many scenarios as you like but in every aspect of your white life, you can't escape your privilege.
 
However you wish to rationalize it, it’s legalized discrimination based on racial ancestry. If White Privilege exists, it’s a pretty useless privilege.

You can rationalize it away with as many scenarios as you like but in every aspect of your white life, you can't escape your privilege.
It’s kind of a relative thing and “privilege” is one semantic way of describing it. It’s about where you put the zero. If zero is for the non-whites then whites are privileged with a positive value. If whites are considered zero, as in the normal because they are the majority population then non-whites are negative and considered underprivileged.

And there are multiple kinds of privilege around and various people benefit from them in various ways: race, sex, wealth, education, religion, language.
 
Are you proposing that I lie to my lender? If It was legal for me to provide false information in the process of obtaining credit I'd tell them I was white, not part white. That is to assure I get the full benefits of being white, not partial benefits. :giggle:

Well, that’s the point. Why do White people like Elizabeth Warren lie about their racial ancestry? Because the current societal advantage favors non-White identity. If White Privilege bestowed advantage, why do so many want to be seen as not White?
Warren didn't lie. She repeated the story she had grown up with about her ancestry. She believed what she was told.

When she noted her race/ethnicity, did she include the White part or curiously tried to erase it?
To the best of my knowledge, she never indicated that she was 100% Native American. Instead, she offered up the family story of NA heritage that included one side of the family disowning a family member for marrying someone with NA heritage.
 
And there are multiple kinds of privilege around and various people benefit from them in various ways: race, sex, wealth, education, religion, language.

Agreed. However, Being white has its privileges despite your sex, wealth. education. religion or the language you speak. In fact, it manifests itself across all those classifications.
 
While the result may be the same the reason for discrimination is different. Affirmative action, for example, is holding slots at the school for individuals of color because of the history of America's oppression of black people. It's an attempt to allow people of color to catch up after centuries of being kept out. What you call discrimination is white students being turned away because there aren't any slots left. While discrimination against blacks meant an entirely different thing.

However you wish to rationalize it, it’s legalized discrimination based on racial ancestry. If White Privilege exists, it’s a pretty useless privilege.
Oh, I don't know. I'm grateful that I was able to remain ignorant of the fact that some families (i.e. not-white families) have to have The Talk with their kids, especially their sons, about being pulled over by police officers. I've never had to deal with anyone assuming that I was an affirmative action hire/admit. I actually had never heard of redlining when we purchased our first home. As it turned out, we were reverse red-lined. It was only some years later when I realized that we had been carefully steered towards white neighborhoods by our realtor. In fact, when we bought our first home, it was in a racially diverse neighborhood and I found the listing, not my realtor who showed us zero homes in that neighborhood. It simply did not occur to me that race was a factor, even when she asked if we were Jewish and then said that if we were, we might be interested in some listings in a nice Jewish neighborhood she worked with. My naivite was possible because I could be naive. White people generally never think much about race in their daily lives.

I didn't worry that my sons would find themselves face down on the pavement if they ran a red light or would be in danger for walking down the wrong street.

Because I'm white, everyone just assumed I won my place in university, my scholarship, my grades, my place in society by my own hard work. I could walk around like I owned the place wherever I went, considering only if I had the money to buy my meal or whatever, never if I would be followed around in case I would steal or never turned away because of the color of my skin. That is a pretty big privilege.

We didn't get higher interest rates on our loans because of the color of our skin, which is something that to this day still happens to black people applying for mortgages. That's a pretty big advantage.

I've written about this before I think. Growing up, except for 1.5 years, I attended all white schools. In the first grade and half of second grade, my school had a handful of black students but was otherwise white. My family purchased its first home while I was in second grade and we would move over Christmas break. One day, in second grade, a week or so before Christmas break, my friend was mean to me and excluded me from playing in our friend group. I don't remember why, if I ever knew. I just knew I faced a lonely recess. We were lined up to go out to recess and ahead of me in line were 3 little girls who were black. I was fairly shy in those days, and hurting from my friend's mean words and I tapped on the shoulder of the girl just ahead of me and asked if I could play with her and her friends at recess. I remember her just looking at me, very kindly, and stroking my hair, the way that girls do. She told me that she thought I was a very nice girl, one of the nicest girls in the class and she would miss me after we moved but it wasn't a very good idea for us to play together on the playground.

This was something she HAD to know. And something I was able to never even consider. At 7 or 8 years old, this perfectly nice little girl had to bear the weight of knowing that if she played with a white child, there would be hell to pay---and she would pay it. And her family. Meanwhile, I could just feel a little sorry for myself and forget all about this incident for years. I got to be a kid years longer than that other little girl who was so nice to me.

I did, however, have to have a talk with my daughter about being careful about walking alone at night, even in our safe little town, and being careful not to be the only girl in a car full of boys. I will never forget the absolute fury in her eyes as she told me--and I tried to deny--that I never had to have that kind of talk with her brothers. But she was right and it wasn't fair but I still felt the need to caution my daughter because I knew too well the danger she could face that her brothers never would.

It's not nearly the same thing. I imagine black parents and sons must feel about a million times the fury my daughter felt. And I don't blame them.
 
Because I'm white, everyone just assumed I won my place in university, my scholarship, my grades, my place in society by my own hard work.
If it comforts you, I would not just assume you had not benefited from affirmative action. Many white women have benefited.

But I do agree that whilst universities continue to discriminate against whites and Asians, whites and Asians will never be assumed to have gotten in because of the colour of their skin.
 
I did answer your question though. It's precisely how Rhea interpreted it. I meant any of the options besides D (the other options made D unnecessary to get my point across) because the police treating everyone equally wouldn't have been racist. Is that not an answer to your question?
Why does this have to be like pulling teeth? ...

ELI5
Had to Google that. Okay, I'll explain like you're five. I wrote:

They ought not to have done that. ... So, looking back on this with the perspective of time, what do you think the police should have done instead?

(a) Told all five of you to leave?
(b) Let all five of you stay?
(c) Made the five of you draw straws for the three available sleep-in-the-train-station slots?​

Pick one.
 
Yes, the left does try to make a case for the existence of white privilege or at least a lot of people in "the left" try to make that case and why wouldn't they, it's a thing that exists.
So show me a leftist who forthrightly grants that it takes more than racial discrimination to make a case for "white privilege", and who correctly identifies the additional criteria that need to be satisfied, and who presents evidence that those additional criteria are satisfied. Because over and over I hear leftists say what amounts to "Look, racial discrimination! See, white privilege is a thing that exists."

To think about discrimination, one conceptualizes a bad person committing provably illegal acts or civilly liable acts.
Yes, those; or just legal and non-actionable racially motivated bad acts like refusing to lend your neighbor a cup of sugar on account of her ethnicity. I take it you're offering yourself as such an exemplary leftist.

That's quite a bit more narrow than conceptualizing regular, everyday white people benefiting from a collective _advantage_ that is present due to collective institutional and other extrinsic differences such as societal perceptions and opportunity potential.
Was that supposed to be a correct identification of one such additional criterion? What in the name of ever-loving Cthulhu is a "collective advantage"? Is that what you call it when persons B, D, and F have advantages, and you mentally lump persons A, B, C, D, E, and F into group X, so you say group X has a "collective advantage"? So if people get access to good business deals by being in the country club, but the country club won't let Jews join, then that means there's a "collective advantage" for Christians that includes Christians the country club folks look down on as trailer trash and would never accept into their club?

As a white person, it is valuable for me to consider relative benefit to myself that is not merely the absence of rare bad events perpetrated by persons guilty of discrimination.
You seem to be on the right track here -- yes, the word "privilege" definitely implies it's something one benefits from. So if you intended that to be another correct identification of such an additional criterion, you appear to be half-way toward proving an important lemma for the left's case. Now you just need to show that the meaning of "privilege" also involves the "relative" part...

privilege: "a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group."

--Google search on "definition of privilege"
Meaning is determined by use, not by Google.
Google is referencing a dictionary definition, but you are contradicting yourself: first you complained that you disagreed with how "leftists" are USING the term and now you are saying, how people use the word is what defines it.
You appear to be making a sense vs. reference error. "Meaning is determined by use" is a linguistics slogan; it needs clarification. The meaning of a word is determined by what people use the word to mean; it's not determined by what people use the word on. For example, even if the English were to consistently use the word "drunken" to describe all Irishmen and only Irishmen, that wouldn't make them automatically correct on account of it making "drunken" mean "Irishman". The English would be accusing Irishmen of overconsuming alcohol; they wouldn't be accusing them of being Irish.

I disagree with what leftists are using the word "privilege" to refer to, not with what they mean by it. Leftists rarely show any sign of being unaware that "privilege" does not mean "less discriminated against" -- they just seem unaware that that's a reason not to make a fallacious argument inferring privilege from lower levels of racial discrimination. If leftists sincerely meant "less discriminated against", then their use of the term "privilege" wouldn't be the dishonorable religious propaganda that it is -- it would merely be an innocent dialectal idiosyncrasy we could easily clear up by pointing out to them that normal English speakers mean something different by "privilege", and then the leftists would just stop using it, in order to avoid failure to communicate.
 
I have anecdotal experience with it. When I was homeless in Bayshore Long Island NY I tried sleeping at the local train station Off Union Blvd with the other homeless people at first. It was 2 White men, 1 White woman & 2 Black men (me being one of the black ones obviously). The police would occasionally show up and ask me and the other black guy to leave while all three white people were left to linger around.
They ought not to have done that. It sucks how so many cops are racist. So, looking back on this with the perspective of time, what do you think the police should have done instead?

(a) Told all five of you to leave?
(b) Let all five of you stay?
(c) Made the five of you draw straws for the three available sleep-in-the-train-station slots?
(d) Other?

@ Bomb#20, I'm trying to understand what point you think you are making here. For starters, what in the story made you think there were exactly THREE "sleep-in-the-train-station slots"? Is it really your contention that if three of the five sleepers had been black, one of them would have been permitted to stay? Or if four out of five were white, one of the whites would have been asked to leave? Really? And if that is NOT your contention, what in tarnation was your question about?

If I can summarize one of your positions in the thread, you seem to be arguing that discrimination against Blacks is real, but discrimination to favor whites is not real. Aren't they just two sides of the same coin?
 
Had to Google that. Okay, I'll explain like you're five. I wrote:

They ought not to have done that. ... So, looking back on this with the perspective of time, what do you think the police should have done instead?

(a) Told all five of you to leave?
(b) Let all five of you stay?
(c) Made the five of you draw straws for the three available sleep-in-the-train-station slots?
Pick one.

The topic is white privilege. And I brought up my train station incident to put on display an instance of white privilege I encountered. With this In mind, you should understand why I'm answering your question the way I do. It has nothing to do with what would be lawful or ethical on the police officers' part (as you seem to be turning the topic towards depending on my answer).

Anyhow,
a) would be fine because they would be treating all five of us the same and not giving the white homeless people the privilege to stay.
b) would be just fine because that's also treating everyone the same and not giving one group (or person) a privilege others cannot enjoy for racist reasons.
c) would have been fine because again the officers are treating everyone the same and not choosing skin color as the reason why some of us can stay at the train station.

If you can't understand this, it's not my problem.
 
@ Bomb#20, (...) If I can summarize one of your positions in the thread, you seem to be arguing that discrimination against Blacks is real, but discrimination to favor whites is not real. Aren't they just two sides of the same coin?

No, because not everybody is either white or black.

For example: Asian people exist. Do they need to have "the talk" about how to behave around police to avoid getting killed by racist police?

If so, and if every other group who isn't white and no significant subset of white people need to have that talk, then yes, that is a case of white privilege.

Otherwise, it's just a case of black disadvantage.
 
No, because not everybody is either white or black.

For example: Asian people exist. Do they need to have "the talk" about how to behave around police to avoid getting killed by racist police?

If so, and if every other group who isn't white and no significant subset of white people need to have that talk, then yes, that is a case of white privilege.

Otherwise, it's just a case of black disadvantage.


Hey, guys look over there! Asians aren't similar to blacks in one minute detail! That means white privilege doesn't exist! :ROFLMAO:Adorable.

How's about we talk about white privilege over Asain's then?

Here's a start. Name 4 well-known Asian American's that aren't known for martial arts? You have all of American History to choose from.

After you google them, note the historic discrimination against Asians by, -surprised pikachu- privileged white people.

Asians are still struggling with racism themselves these days (in many cases from Black People). They've had/have advantages themselves but that by no means indicates the absence of white privilege. The fact there aren't a lot of well-known prominent Asain figures is telling. Especially considering that all non-white Americans becoming American citizens just for being born on American soil was solidified over an Asian.

Like holy shit why was that never mentioned throughout my 9 years in public schools?

But all this is not my point. What I'm really saying is if you're going to argue white privileged doesn't exist it's silly to exclude Whites then use a comparison between Asians & Blacks as the basis for that argument.
 
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