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ACLU Wins - Federal Judge Just Issued A Stay Against Trump's Muslim Ban

Between this and Senator Warren being shut down for saying something negative about a fellow Senator, I think a positive outcome of the next four years will be to plug some of the holes in our legislation that can be exploited.
 
Based on the line of questioning, it looks like part of the Executive Order will be toast.
 
While I appreciate that "liberal" judges can and do torture the Constitution until it yields the answer they prefer, this article is very sketchy on exactly how that can be done given the clear precedents and relatively clear statutory authority here.

Assuming they need at least a fig leaf of cover to substitute their policy judgement for the president's, what will that fig leaf be?

The author offers little but handwaving:

"How those decisions have translated on the ground is a question for debate, and there would be similar complexities to reversing the Trump order. But the courts should start putting the Constitution to work in the immigration context as in others."

This, however, is the most problematic point:

Second, and relatedly, is the fact that the order serves no counterterror purpose.

As the Dude would say, "yeah well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man." it's not a "fact". Under the law, we have a decider who gets to decide this and it's Trump.

But the entire notion of the Plenary Power Doctrine is not consistent with a reasonable and rational reading of the text of the U.S. Constitution. As an Originalist, I do not find the Plenary Power Doctrine palatable. However, the Plenary Power Doctrine has been invoked for over 100 years and affirmed in several decisions throughout the 20th century. I understand the Plenary Power Doctrine likely cannot be eradicated from the Court's jurisprudence given the lengthy tenure of the legal doctrine as part of the Court's jurisprudence, along with the voluminous laws and legal structure passed and based upon the Court's jurisprudence. However, this does not suggest some limitation on the Plenary Power Doctrine cannot now be imposed, such as the religion clauses of the 1st Amendment.

I do agree with you, however, the author's argument for a court to rule against Trump is not very persuasive. His position is best understood as providing a legal argument a court could espouse if a court is so inclined to render Trump's EO as unlawful, either in part or in its entirety.
 
Is there any basis to the claim that Hart-Celler overrode the 1952 statute granting the President unilateral authority to ban nationals from certain countries? The primary argument against invoking Hart-Celler seems to be based on the intent of the law versus the intent of the executive order. But, as we have been told repeatedly, we can't look at intent when the plain text is clear. So which is it?
 
While I appreciate that "liberal" judges can and do torture the Constitution until it yields the answer they prefer, this article is very sketchy on exactly how that can be done given the clear precedents and relatively clear statutory authority here.

Assuming they need at least a fig leaf of cover to substitute their policy judgement for the president's, what will that fig leaf be?

The author offers little but handwaving:



This, however, is the most problematic point:

Second, and relatedly, is the fact that the order serves no counterterror purpose.

As the Dude would say, "yeah well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man." it's not a "fact". Under the law, we have a decider who gets to decide this and it's Trump.

But the entire notion of the Plenary Power Doctrine is not consistent with a reasonable and rational reading of the text of the U.S. Constitution. As an Originalist, I do not find the Plenary Power Doctrine palatable. However, the Plenary Power Doctrine has been invoked for over 100 years and affirmed in several decisions throughout the 20th century. I understand the Plenary Power Doctrine likely cannot be eradicated from the Court's jurisprudence given the lengthy tenure of the legal doctrine as part of the Court's jurisprudence, along with the voluminous laws and legal structure passed and based upon the Court's jurisprudence. However, this does not suggest some limitation on the Plenary Power Doctrine cannot now be imposed, such as the religion clauses of the 1st Amendment.

I do agree with you, however, the author's argument for a court to rule against Trump is not very persuasive. His position is best understood as providing a legal argument a court could espouse if a court is so inclined to render Trump's EO as unlawful, either in part or in its entirety.

But you would agree, at least, that for a judge to find "the order serves no counterterror purpose" requires a judge make foreign policy judgments? And, in this case, indeed substitute his own judgment for the President's on a foreign policy matter?

Even to entertain this question would do that.

There are cases where constitutional rights are balanced against a weighing of legitimate government purpose, but the weighing in this case of the asserted government interest would seem to intrude into areas where judges are not supposed to tread.

To argue this is an establishment clause case seems to be a challenge on its face. The order does not single out muslims directly, and leaves ~90% of the majority muslim countries entirely unaffected. The administration can claim the order has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with certain criteria related to terror in the affected countries and the courts are quickly back in an area where they have dubious authority to second guess.
 
While I appreciate that "liberal" judges can and do torture the Constitution until it yields the answer they prefer, this article is very sketchy on exactly how that can be done given the clear precedents and relatively clear statutory authority here.

Assuming they need at least a fig leaf of cover to substitute their policy judgement for the president's, what will that fig leaf be?

The author offers little but handwaving:



This, however, is the most problematic point:

Second, and relatedly, is the fact that the order serves no counterterror purpose.

As the Dude would say, "yeah well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man." it's not a "fact". Under the law, we have a decider who gets to decide this and it's Trump.

But the entire notion of the Plenary Power Doctrine is not consistent with a reasonable and rational reading of the text of the U.S. Constitution. As an Originalist, I do not find the Plenary Power Doctrine palatable. However, the Plenary Power Doctrine has been invoked for over 100 years and affirmed in several decisions throughout the 20th century. I understand the Plenary Power Doctrine likely cannot be eradicated from the Court's jurisprudence given the lengthy tenure of the legal doctrine as part of the Court's jurisprudence, along with the voluminous laws and legal structure passed and based upon the Court's jurisprudence. However, this does not suggest some limitation on the Plenary Power Doctrine cannot now be imposed, such as the religion clauses of the 1st Amendment.

I do agree with you, however, the author's argument for a court to rule against Trump is not very persuasive. His position is best understood as providing a legal argument a court could espouse if a court is so inclined to render Trump's EO as unlawful, either in part or in its entirety.

But you would agree, at least, that for a judge to find "the order serves no counterterror purpose" requires a judge make foreign policy judgments?

No. Failure on the part of the gummint to demonstrate any credible counter-terror purpose for that stupid, bumbling order should suffice to uphold the stay. As should the fact that it doesn't target the countries that are empirically most likely to send us "Bad Hombres". And numerous other failures.

The only leg they have to stand on is the clause allowing a president to prohibit "any class of immigrant" from coming into the country. I think that will probably suffice in the end, unless it is interpreted that that clause doesn't mean a president can totally capriciously exclude made-up "classes" of his own definition. For instance, if he chose to keep anyone named "Al" out of the country. Sure, that would keep Muhammed Al Whatever, the terrorist from coming in, but it would also mean that Al Sharpton wouldn't be able to travel abroad and return. And if put in place while poor Al was overseas...
Hey wait... that might be a GOOD thing!
 
But you would agree, at least, that for a judge to find "the order serves no counterterror purpose" requires a judge make foreign policy judgments? And, in this case, indeed substitute his own judgment for the President's on a foreign policy matter?

The judge can't substitute a judgment that wasn't made. If I really believed that Trump created the EO in response to an actual foreign policy/counterterror judgment, I might be with you on this.
 
At the hearing the judges were asking for evidence to support a counterterrorism purpose. They didn't get any.
 
At the hearing the judges were asking for evidence to support a counterterrorism purpose. They didn't get any.

That's because there isn't one. It was a political decision designed to cater to Trump's base, not a decision made to "fight terrorism" or "increase security" or whatever other bullshit they decided to pretend it was about today.
 
No. Failure on the part of the gummint to demonstrate any credible counter-terror purpose for that stupid, bumbling order should suffice to uphold the stay. As should the fact that it doesn't target the countries that are empirically most likely to send us "Bad Hombres". And numerous other failures.

I'm sure in your alternate version of reality that it is possible to judge whether the government's judgment is credible without a judge whose job is not to judge such things judging the government's judgement.
 
No. Failure on the part of the gummint to demonstrate any credible counter-terror purpose for that stupid, bumbling order should suffice to uphold the stay. As should the fact that it doesn't target the countries that are empirically most likely to send us "Bad Hombres". And numerous other failures.

I'm sure in your alternate version of reality that it is possible to judge whether the government's judgment is credible without a judge whose job is not to judge such things judging the government's judgement.

In my alt-reality, a person summoned to court must appear in court and make their case to the court. In your alt-reality, I suppose they can just fail to appear on the grounds that judges don't know shit about their business, and they've already made their case to their own colleagues.

I think your alt-reality is stupid. :D
 
I'm sure in your alternate version of reality that it is possible to judge whether the government's judgment is credible without a judge whose job is not to judge such things judging the government's judgement.

In my alt-reality, a person summoned to court must appear in court and make their case to the court. In your alt-reality, I suppose they can just fail to appear on the grounds that judges don't know shit about their business, and they've already made their case to their own colleagues.
Apparently there are federal judges who live in your "alt-reality".
I think your alt-reality is stupid. :D
It is truly alt-intelligent.
 
Apparently there are federal judges who live in your "alt-reality".

It's CRAWLING with them! Under the beds, in the closets - I cant even pee without some federal judge crawling out from behind the toilet.
I might have to sign on to dismal's alt-reality. Apparently I can just tell them all to fuck off if I think I know better than they do. :)
 
But you would agree, at least, that for a judge to find "the order serves no counterterror purpose" requires a judge make foreign policy judgments? And, in this case, indeed substitute his own judgment for the President's on a foreign policy matter?

No. The judge doesn't need to substitute his judgment here. Rather, he can look at the government argument of how it supposedly serves a counter-terror purpose and see if it makes sense.

To argue this is an establishment clause case seems to be a challenge on its face. The order does not single out muslims directly, and leaves ~90% of the majority muslim countries entirely unaffected. The administration can claim the order has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with certain criteria related to terror in the affected countries and the courts are quickly back in an area where they have dubious authority to second guess.

It has already been established that this was a first attempt toward banning Muslims. This means it's going to start out with 2.9 strikes against it.
 
No. Failure on the part of the gummint to demonstrate any credible counter-terror purpose for that stupid, bumbling order should suffice to uphold the stay. As should the fact that it doesn't target the countries that are empirically most likely to send us "Bad Hombres". And numerous other failures.

I'm sure in your alternate version of reality that it is possible to judge whether the government's judgment is credible without a judge whose job is not to judge such things judging the government's judgement.

I'm sorry, but you're in an alternate reality where you think there's some judgment on the government's part to be decided upon. Courts rule on what's presented in court--and the DOJ presented nothing. That's the sort of thing that leads to summary judgments.
 
The order putting a hold on the ban has been upheld! Unanimous 3-0 decision.

A federal appeals court has maintained the freeze on President Trump’s controversial immigration order, meaning previously barred refugees and citizens from seven Muslim-majority countries can continue entering the U.S.

A panel with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld the ruling of U.S. District Judge James Robart, who had decided Friday that Trump’s temporary travel ban should be put on hold. The Department of Homeland Security soon suspended all enforcement of Trump’s controversial directive.

The Justice Department, representing the Trump administration, could now ask the Supreme Court — which often defers to the president on matters of immigration and national security — to intervene. The Supreme Court, though, remains one justice short, and many see it as ideologically split 4-4. A tie would keep in place whatever the appeals court decides.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...eedf1627882_story.html?utm_term=.8b8f087de16d
 
9th circuit court of appeals refuses to intervene and reverse lower court ruling. So Trump loses again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Off to SCOTUS we go, I presume. Note that a Bush appointee also upheld the decision; even if all the "right wing" SCOTUS justices try to reverse it, a tie still produces a win for sanity and a huge loss for the Tweeter-in-chief.
 
Some parts of interest from the order:

There is no precedent to support this claimed
unreviewability, which runs contrary to the fundamental
structure of our constitutional democracy. See Boumediene
v. Bush, 553 U.S. 723, 765 (2008) (rejecting the idea that,
even by congressional statute, Congress and the Executive
could eliminate federal court habeas jurisdiction over enemy
combatants, because the “political branches” lack “the
power to switch the Constitution on or off at will”). Within
our system, it is the role of the judiciary to interpret the law,
a duty that will sometimes require the “[r]esolution of
litigation challenging the constitutional authority of one of
the three branches.” Zivotofsky ex rel. Zivotofsky v. Clinton,
566 U.S. 189, 196 (2012) (quoting INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S.
919, 943 (1983)). We are called upon to perform that duty
in this case.
Although our jurisprudence has long counseled
deference to the political branches on matters of immigration
and national security, neither the Supreme Court nor our
court has ever held that courts lack the authority to review
executive action in those arenas for compliance with the
Constitution. To the contrary, the Supreme Court has
repeatedly and explicitly rejected the notion that the political
branches have unreviewable authority over immigration or
are not subject to the Constitution when policymaking in that
context. See Zadvydas v. Davis, 533 U.S. 678, 695 (2001)
(emphasizing that the power of the political branches over
immigration “is subject to important constitutional
limitations”); Chadha, 462 U.S. at 940-41 (rejecting the
argument that Congress has “unreviewable authority over
the regulation of aliens,” and affirming that courts can
review “whether Congress has chosen a constitutionally permissible means of implementing that power”).6 Our
court has likewise made clear that “[a]lthough alienage
classifications are closely connected to matters of foreign
policy and national security,” courts “can and do review
foreign policy arguments that are offered to justify
legislative or executive action when constitutional rights are
at stake.” American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Comm. v.
Reno, 70 F.3d 1045, 1056 (9th Cir. 1995).

...

The procedural protections provided by the Fifth
Amendment’s Due Process Clause are not limited to
citizens. Rather, they “appl[y] to all ‘persons’ within the
United States, including aliens,” regardless of “whether their
presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent.”
Zadvydas v. Davis, 533 U.S. 678, 693 (2001). These rights
also apply to certain aliens attempting to reenter the United
States after travelling abroad. Landon v. Plasencia, 459 U.S.
21, 33-34 (1982). The Government has provided no
affirmative argument showing that the States’ procedural
due process claims fail as to these categories of aliens. For
example, the Government has failed to establish that lawful
permanent residents have no due process rights when
seeking to re-enter the United States. See id. (“[T]he
returning resident alien is entitled as a matter of due process
to a hearing on the charges underlying any attempt to
exclude him.” (quoting Rosenberg v. Fleuti, 374 U.S. 449,
460 (1963))). Nor has the Government established that the
Executive Order provides lawful permanent residents with
constitutionally sufficient process to challenge their denial
of re-entry. See id. at 35 (“[T]he courts must evaluate the
particular circumstances and determine what procedures
would satisfy the minimum requirements of due process on
the re-entry of a permanent resident alien.”).

...

The Government has pointed to no evidence that any
alien from any of the countries named in the Order has
perpetrated a terrorist attack in the United States.7 Rather
than present evidence to explain the need for the Executive
Order, the Government has taken the position that we must
not review its decision at all.8
We disagree, as explained
above.

By contrast, the States have offered ample evidence that
if the Executive Order were reinstated even temporarily, it
would substantially injure the States and multiple “other
parties interested in the proceeding.” Nken, 556 U.S. at 434
(quoting Hilton v. Braunskill, 481 U.S. 770, 776 (1987)).
When the Executive Order was in effect, the States contend
that the travel prohibitions harmed the States’ university
employees and students, separated families, and stranded the
States’ residents abroad. These are substantial injuries and
even irreparable harms. See Melendres v. Arpaio, 695 F.3d
990, 1002 (9th Cir. 2012) (“It is well established that the
deprivation of constitutional rights ‘unquestionably
constitutes irreparable injury.’” (quoting Elrod v. Burns,
427 U.S. 347, 373 (1976))).

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2017/02/09/17-35105.pdf

Note that this wasn't a decision saying that the government's executive order was illegal. Just that it is unlikely to be upheld as legal and, due to the irreparable harms suffered by the plaintiffs, a continuation of the ban pending the full appeal is denied.
 
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