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AHCA vote delayed

Sarpedon said:
That's a good point. Ryan would have been a credible primary challenger for him.

I would have thought Trump would have preferred it go down in flames and blame it on Ryan than to take the responsibility for pulling it. What's he up to? Or is he not up to anything? Maybe he's just that dumb.
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Trump seems to have a knack at the lowest common denominator crowd, but when it comes to business, I think he excels because of his tax lawyers work, his lawyers work, and an ability to present himself as something he clearly isn't (a good business man).

Trump attached himself to a bill that he didn't campaign for at all. And his address to Congress, he made the tack change from health care for all to health care access for all, which indicated he was going to work with the PTB for the GOP. Well, that didn't work. And of course, any bill that expanded health care rights and would have likely had Democrat support would never have proceeded in the House.

The question becomes less how does this hurt them and more, where the fuck do they go now? They've been railing about ACA for 7 years! So maybe the budget, but they wanted to cut non-military discretionary spending by 12ish%. Which is a lot, and includes a good deal of rural money. So Trump is 0 for 2 with the bases loaded. Time for another at bat.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
I think there are other consequences of this failure, I thought. NPR was reporting that the tax reform (not under the guise of health reform) required this to be passed first, so this messes all of that up as well.

<snip>

For Trump it looks pretty bad as well.
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Another consequence is that it reiterates to Trump that he wasn't made dictator. His inability to deal with setbacks is going to make him even less effective (if that is possible). I'm hoping for a complete mental breakdown that even the most rabid right-winger can't deny. (The wire-tapping allegations were a mental breakdown, but apparently not complete enough for some.)
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
I think there are other consequences of this failure, I thought. NPR was reporting that the tax reform (not under the guise of health reform) required this to be passed first, so this messes all of that up as well.
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Well the Frito Caucus (aka Freedom) was already pissy and wanting the ACA burned to the ground. This should put them in a good mood for negotiations on how to handle the Return of the Debt Ceiling Zombie.

From: 3/23/2017
Rob Portman wants dollar-for-dollar spending cuts for any debt ceiling hike
Ohio Sen. Rob Portman and other Republicans introduced legislation Thursday that would require dollar-for-dollar spending cuts for any increase in the federal debt ceiling, indicating that President Trump might face resistance from the GOP if he doesn't pursue deficit reduction.
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That should do wonders for the Don the Con spending plan....
 
funinspace said:
Well the Frito Caucus (aka Freedom) was already pissy and wanting the ACA burned to the ground. This should put them in a good mood for negotiations on how to handle the Return of the Debt Ceiling Zombie.

From: 3/23/2017
Rob Portman wants dollar-for-dollar spending cuts for any debt ceiling hike
Ohio Sen. Rob Portman and other Republicans introduced legislation Thursday that would require dollar-for-dollar spending cuts for any increase in the federal debt ceiling, indicating that President Trump might face resistance from the GOP if he doesn't pursue deficit reduction.
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That should do wonders for the Don the Con spending plan....
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As soon as El Cheato "won" the election, my wife came to me, literally in tears (not because she has any fondness for HRC - we both caucused for Bernie), and sobbed "What's going to happen?"
Somehow that caused a moment of piercing clarity in my fogged-up brain, and I replied "Nothing is going to happen. He's a bumbling idiot and won't be able to get anything done." That seemed to mollify her, and now it seem like I might have been prescient there for an instant.
 
funinspace said:
From: 3/23/2017
Rob Portman wants dollar-for-dollar spending cuts for any debt ceiling hike
Ohio Sen. Rob Portman and other Republicans introduced legislation Thursday that would require dollar-for-dollar spending cuts for any increase in the federal debt ceiling, indicating that President Trump might face resistance from the GOP if he doesn't pursue deficit reduction.
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That should do wonders for the Don the Con spending plan....
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How is that even possible?!

Raise the ceiling by $400 billion (an annual deficit), you need to cut $400 billion from the annual budget... which is probably 80% of our non-military discretionary spending. The only way to do what Portman suggests is to eliminate or drastically slash Social Security or Medicare, immediately (which is a DC no-no).
 
Elixir said:
As soon as El Cheato "won" the election, my wife came to me, literally in tears (not because she has any fondness for HRC - we both caucused for Bernie), and sobbed "What's going to happen?"
Somehow that caused a moment of piercing clarity in my fogged-up brain, and I replied "Nothing is going to happen. He's a bumbling idiot and won't be able to get anything done." That seemed to mollify her, and now it seem like I might have been prescient there for an instant.
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Many predicted that Trump would be a Jimmy Carter, an ineffectual outsider.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
How is that even possible?!

Raise the ceiling by $400 billion (an annual deficit), you need to cut $400 billion from the annual budget... which is probably 80% of our non-military discretionary spending. The only way to do what Portman suggests is to eliminate or drastically slash Social Security or Medicare, immediately (which is a DC no-no).
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Reducing "entitlements" is such a meme in DC Obama offered to cut SS. The Repugs turned him down...

They want it done, but don't want to do it. As in own it.
 
Horatio Parker said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
How is that even possible?!

Raise the ceiling by $400 billion (an annual deficit), you need to cut $400 billion from the annual budget... which is probably 80% of our non-military discretionary spending. The only way to do what Portman suggests is to eliminate or drastically slash Social Security or Medicare, immediately (which is a DC no-no).
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Reducing "entitlements" is such a meme in DC Obama offered to cut SS. The Repugs turned him down...

They want it done, but don't want to do it. As in own it.
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Just like everything else that the gov does, other than "defense" spending (to benefit their peers).
Their ideal end scenario is to spend a bunch on the military budget and pocket the rest. Maybe a few infrastructure "deals", if they can throw some contracts to their pals in the business, heavily sweetened with taxpayer dollars. Other than that, they're all about "small government", which translates to "no mechanism for preventing us from stealing everyone else blind".
 
Trump said the ACA belongs completely to the Democrats now. I say except for the part where Marco Rubio destroyed the risk corridor funding which is what is causing one of the biggest problems with the ACA.
 
ZiprHead said:
Trump said the ACA belongs completely to the Democrats now. I say except for the part where Marco Rubio destroyed the risk corridor funding which is what is causing one of the biggest problems with the ACA.
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I like the part where Trump blamed this bill's failure on the Dems and Pelosi responded "Ya, we'll take credit for that".
 
whichphilosophy said:
Cuba has a more cost effective and further reaching system of free healthcare. This might be worth exploring.
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Sicko was a propaganda piece, it bore little resemblance to the truth.

What he showed was what was available for foreigners coming to Cuba and spending hard currency, not what the locals got. And things were cheap because they shat on patents and probably on quality control.

Locals got the docs but that was it.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
whichphilosophy said:
Cuba has a more cost effective and further reaching system of free healthcare. This might be worth exploring.
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Sicko was a propaganda piece, it bore little resemblance to the truth.

What he showed was what was available for foreigners coming to Cuba and spending hard currency, not what the locals got. And things were cheap because they shat on patents and probably on quality control.

Locals got the docs but that was it.
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As usual total nonsense.

Cuba, this poor nation under constant US attack for no good reason for decades, trained more doctors per capita than the US and gave all it's citizens access to health care.

Most importantly Cuba is part of the civilized world that sees health care as a basic human right.

The US has not reached that level of maturity yet.

The US held on to slavery longer than anyone else too.

A slow moving primitive people.
 
Horatio Parker said:
Elixir said:
As soon as El Cheato "won" the election, my wife came to me, literally in tears (not because she has any fondness for HRC - we both caucused for Bernie), and sobbed "What's going to happen?"
Somehow that caused a moment of piercing clarity in my fogged-up brain, and I replied "Nothing is going to happen. He's a bumbling idiot and won't be able to get anything done." That seemed to mollify her, and now it seem like I might have been prescient there for an instant.
Click to expand...

Many predicted that Trump would be a Jimmy Carter, an ineffectual outsider.
Click to expand...

Carter was trying to help people in general. He had a different kind of Christianity than the Republican free-market Christianity that followed.

Carter was not trying to throw millions off their health insurance plans.

Trumps ineffectiveness is because he has no plans and no ability to deal with people. He has been a petty dictator barking orders his entire adult life. He does not know how to get along with others.

He has no traits of a good leader.

All his associations are because of "deals", because of money.
 
When the ACA was rolled out, telling insurance companies that they had to insure anybody who signed up, regardless of previous conditions or sickness, everybody realized that the insurance companies would probably lose money in the first decade or so, until previously-uninsured-but-sick people got into the system, got better, and things evened out.

To get the insurance companies to go along with this danger of losing money, the ACA promised to make them whole for any losses in any of the first decade’s years. At the end of each fiscal year, the insurance companies merely had to document their losses, and the government would reimburse them out of ACA funds provided for by the law.

The possibility of their losing money was referred to as the “risk corridor,” and the ACA explicitly filled those risk corridors with a guarantee of making the insurance companies, at the very least, whole.

And then something happened. As The New York Times noted on December 9, 2015, “A little-noticed health care provision slipped into a giant spending law last year has tangled up the Obama administration, sent tremors through health insurance markets and rattled confidence in the durability of President Obama’s signature health law.”

Rubio and a number of other Republicans had succeeded in gutting the risk corridors. The result was that, just in 2015, end-of-fiscal-year risk corridor payments to insurance companies that were supposed to total around $2.9 billion were only reimbursed, according to Rubio himself quoted in the Times, to the tune of around $400 million. Rubio bragged that he’d “saved taxpayers $2.5 billion.”

And, indeed, he had. But the insurance companies were thrown into a crisis. And, with Republicans in Congress absolutely refusing to re-fund the risk corridors, that crisis would get worse as time went on, at least over a period of a few years.

So the insurance companies did the only things they could. In (mostly red) states with low incomes and thus poorer health, they simply pulled out of the marketplace altogether. This has left some states with only one single insurer left. In others, they jacked up their prices to make up their losses.
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Rubio’s October Surprise was extraordinarily effective. October 2016 saw an explosion of stories in the news about how health insurance companies were either pulling out of ACA exchanges, or jacking their prices up wildly.

Time magazine wrote “8 States Where Obamacare Rates Are Rising by at Least 30%” without mentioning Rubio’s role in why. Ditto for NPR’s “22 Percent Hike in Obamacare Rates…” and CNN’s “Obamacare Premiums Soar By 22%.” If you date-limit just to October of 2016 – the month before the election – you can find hundreds of similar articles. It was a huge story, but somehow Little Marco’s role in it all – along with his friends in the GOP – never made it into any of the stories.
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Democrats should have been screaming bloody murder for the past 2 years. Maybe they can start now, every time a reporter or Republican says, “Obamacare is failing…”
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http://www.salon.com/2017/03/22/how...e-long-before-trump-came-into-office_partner/
 
untermensche said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Sicko was a propaganda piece, it bore little resemblance to the truth.

What he showed was what was available for foreigners coming to Cuba and spending hard currency, not what the locals got. And things were cheap because they shat on patents and probably on quality control.

Locals got the docs but that was it.
Click to expand...

As usual total nonsense.

Cuba, this poor nation under constant US attack for no good reason for decades, trained more doctors per capita than the US and gave all it's citizens access to health care.

Most importantly Cuba is part of the civilized world that sees health care as a basic human right.

The US has not reached that level of maturity yet.

The US held on to slavery longer than anyone else too.

A slow moving primitive people.
Click to expand...

They trained the docs and did a decent job of it. That doesn't mean the docs have any tools or medicine for the locals, though.
 
untermensche said:
Carter was trying to help people in general. He had a different kind of Christianity than the Republican free-market Christianity that followed.

Carter was not trying to throw millions off their health insurance plans.

Trumps ineffectiveness is because he has no plans and no ability to deal with people. He has been a petty dictator barking orders his entire adult life. He does not know how to get along with others.

He has no traits of a good leader.

All his associations are because of "deals", because of money.
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No disagreement here wrt to their characters, but their characters are not the point.
 
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