Alcohol weed replacement

[Philos]

Folks,

A friend of mine is cutting down on alcohol by occasionally smoking some weed on dry days. He says that, although the high is different, it is still a high, which is what he likes.

This set me thinking. Is a ‘high’ substance dependent?

I like a drink, but not too much. When in hospital for an operation they pumped me full of all kinds of opiate derivatives and I didn’t think about booze at all! The effect of all that morphine and stuff stayed with me for a couple of weeks and I still think about it sometimes. It was the highest I have ever been, apart form speeding on motorcycles.

So, the question is quite broad, but substantively I am asking whether a person wants only the substance of choice or whether we can get high on mind altering substances/experiences no matter what the specifics are. In other words, a high is a high?

A.

 

[rousseau]

Broadly speaking there are two types of drugs (setting aside psychedelics): those that bring you down and those that bring you up.

For a lot of people, drinking is done to bring them down, and the same goes for pot. So for your friend those specific drugs likely act as temporary stress relievers. It's not so much a 'high' in the usual sense of the term, but rather just two variations on a calming of the mind.

There are also some people who just generally enjoy altering their state of mind, but I'd say that in the overwhelming number of cases the high that a person seeks is context dependent. Someone that wants to smoke pot but can't find it probably isn't super likely to take cocaine instead. Or someone who didn't make it to the beer store on time isn't going to dip into their stash of magic mushrooms.

There will be people in experimental phases of their life who try anything and everything, but for the most part people choose drugs with a specific end in mind.

 

[bilby]

There are only two things I like, Seratonin and Dopamine. And I love Oxcytocin.

Various drugs, activities, and stimuli cause these to be present in the brain in various concentrations; Anything that people enjoy can be traced back to the stimulation of the receptors for these three agents in the brain.

A high is dependent on these substances; But they need not be ingested or inhaled - the brain makes its own under the right circumstances. But if it doesn't make enough, there's nothing wrong with adding some of your own - or with taking drugs that reduce the rate at which they are removed from the brain (Prozac, for example, inhibits the reuptake of Seratonin; THC apparently both inhibits Dopamine reuptake, and directly stimulates Dopamine receptors; Ethanol increases Dopamine levels in the reward pathway, but doesn't cause the same general, brain-wide, elevation of Dopamine that THC achieves).

Every brain is different; brain response is constantly changing with other factors (mood, fatigue, general health, etc.) and exposure to any of these drugs will change the brain's response to them over time, so it's all very complicated. But at the most fundamental level, almost all recreational drugs; Ethanol, THC, MDMA, Nicotine, Opiates, etc. will elevate reward pathway dopamine - and it's that which makes people want to do it again.

All things considered, it's quite impressive that a system as complex as a functioning brain can be subjected to a simple but toxic event, such as exposure to sub-lethal levels of ethanol, and return to normal function within a few hours. But if there is one thing you can expect from natural selection in a highly variable environment, it is resilience. People who go crazy due to exposure to commonplace recreational drugs have mostly been eliminated from the gene pool.

 

[TV and credit cards]

For my part I can say I am more interested in getting high/drunk than being so. It happens on the drive home from work. The desire I would get to drink a few beers and the desire to have a couple puffs are the same.

 

[Philos]

For my part I can say I am more interested in getting high/drunk than being so. It happens on the drive home from work. The desire I would get to drink a few beers and the desire to have a couple puffs are the same.

TV,

Yes, this is what I was getting at. Whilst I respect the science behind all kinds of differing intoxicants, the distinction that interests me is between any intoxicant and nothing at all.

Chatting to my daughter about this, we agreed that the next best thing to an alcoholic drink is a good, double shot, coffee and the next best thing to weed is a fag. Both caffeine and nicotine have some mood altering powers, although not on the scale of a shot of morphine. On an even subtler level is sugar and salt. If I go without salt for too long I really feel it, and when we give our granddaughter too much sugar we can see the result!

So, my thesis is that the subjective experience of ingested substances is a matter of scale. If any effect can be felt, then it is there, and if we want it again then it is good s***. The level varies dramatically of course, including with habitation and increasing doses.

Regarding the motorcycles, I am informed that the relevant substance is adrenalin, and that has quite a kick.

A.

 

[Val]

I got whacked out on Shrooms (a first!) this past New Year's eve.

Apart from the constant nausea, it was an extremely interesting experience. While bloogered, which was for probably a good eight or nine hours, I didn't once want a cigarette.

The emotional veil that it lifts reveals a stark, almost cruel beauty to one's life.

 

[Philos]

Broadly speaking there are two types of drugs (setting aside psychedelics): those that bring you down and those that bring you up.

rousseau,

This is interesting. I've spent a lot of time with hippies and although they described the colours and lights thing in taking LSD, they were also talking about feeling good. Often they called this 'far out' and the meaning was obvious. There was the occasional bad trip, and in this the word 'bad' was about not feeling good.

So, I'm suspecting that the down and up thing is semantics and the juice is the 'feeling good'. Like, we can feel good in many ways, but its all good, man.

A.

 

[Philos]

I got whacked out on Shrooms (a first!) this past New Year's eve.

Apart from the constant nausea, it was an extremely interesting experience. While bloogered, which was for probably a good eight or nine hours, I didn't once want a cigarette.

The emotional veil that it lifts reveals a stark, almost cruel beauty to one's life.

Hi Val,

Hmm, that's my theory tested, as mescaline (peyote?) does sound like a very different kind of experience. I've been with someone who was on mescaline and she looked like it was a good trip, but well 'bloogered'.

I always avoided it, having a natural fear of the bad trip, or just cowardice.

A.

 

[Val]

I dunno about bad trips. My trip had terrible bits and wonderful bits and everything inbetween but it was overall a good experience. It doesn't make you psychotic afterwards like the conservative social grapevine would have you believe.

And I took a LOT.

I think it's pretty much the same as weed in that regard - it's for happy people and should not be taken when in a bad mood or depressed.

 

[rousseau]

I got whacked out on Shrooms (a first!) this past New Year's eve.

Apart from the constant nausea, it was an extremely interesting experience. While bloogered, which was for probably a good eight or nine hours, I didn't once want a cigarette.

The emotional veil that it lifts reveals a stark, almost cruel beauty to one's life.

Hi Val,

Hmm, that's my theory tested, as mescaline (peyote?) does sound like a very different kind of experience. I've been with someone who was on mescaline and she looked like it was a good trip, but well 'bloogered'.

I always avoided it, having a natural fear of the bad trip, or just cowardice.

A.

Environment is key.. a park, a quiet room with nice music.. make sure nobody is going to barge in on you at any second..

 

[rousseau]

Broadly speaking there are two types of drugs (setting aside psychedelics): those that bring you down and those that bring you up.

rousseau,

This is interesting. I've spent a lot of time with hippies and although they described the colours and lights thing in taking LSD, they were also talking about feeling good. Often they called this 'far out' and the meaning was obvious. There was the occasional bad trip, and in this the word 'bad' was about not feeling good.

So, I'm suspecting that the down and up thing is semantics and the juice is the 'feeling good'. Like, we can feel good in many ways, but its all good, man.

A.

Sure, you're just going to get very different experiences depending on what you take. Even if people don't realize it, sub-consciously they probably take whatever it is they're taking for a specific reason, and not just because it's a drug. They want to dance, relax, listen to music.. whatever..

 

[Philos]

I dunno about bad trips. My trip had terrible bits and wonderful bits and everything inbetween but it was overall a good experience. It doesn't make you psychotic afterwards like the conservative social grapevine would have you believe.

And I took a LOT.

I think it's pretty much the same as weed in that regard - it's for happy people and should not be taken when in a bad mood or depressed.

Val,

That's a good point. I've heard similar about alcohol, as in "drowning your sorrows". Not a good plan, but lots of people do it.

A.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I dunno about bad trips. My trip had terrible bits and wonderful bits and everything inbetween but it was overall a good experience. It doesn't make you psychotic afterwards like the conservative social grapevine would have you believe.

And I took a LOT.

I think it's pretty much the same as weed in that regard - it's for happy people and should not be taken when in a bad mood or depressed.

Val,

That's a good point. I've heard similar about alcohol, as in "drowning your sorrows". Not a good plan, but lots of people do it.

A.

Drinking from boredom or upsetment isn't a good idea. Sometimes unavoidable, but....

 

[J842P]

Folks,

A friend of mine is cutting down on alcohol by occasionally smoking some weed on dry days. He says that, although the high is different, it is still a high, which is what he likes.

This set me thinking. Is a ‘high’ substance dependent?

I like a drink, but not too much. When in hospital for an operation they pumped me full of all kinds of opiate derivatives and I didn’t think about booze at all! The effect of all that morphine and stuff stayed with me for a couple of weeks and I still think about it sometimes. It was the highest I have ever been, apart form speeding on motorcycles.

So, the question is quite broad, but substantively I am asking whether a person wants only the substance of choice or whether we can get high on mind altering substances/experiences no matter what the specifics are. In other words, a high is a high?

A.

No, a high is not a high. I speak from experience, having at least tried every major category of psychedelic substance out there.

Alcohol is one of the most pernicious and dangerous, especially to people around the user.

 

[Philos]

No, a high is not a high. I speak from experience, having at least tried every major category of psychedelic substance out there.

Alcohol is one of the most pernicious and dangerous, especially to people around the user.

J842P,

Thanks for your input. I'm now thinking that 'high' was the wrong word to use in the OP.

At the most basic level I was trying to get at the feeling of 'something going on' as opposed to just being straight. We might say 'straight' opposed to 'not straight', but it can also be a subtle phenomenon. So, for example if a person can feel the hit from a shot of bourbon, from a toke of weed, from a double espresso or (as I can) a couple of co-codamols, then what is happening when they feel the hit is what I'm talking about. I recently had a hit from my first toke of Cuban cigar in 20 yrs; that was a big one.

There are complications AFAIK. For me, one is the hit from wheelying a sports bike above 100mph. In this case no intoxicant has been ingested but the hit is real. Doing this caused me to shout out involuntarily and it was the best hit I've known. Others get something like this from religious experience, as we see in Southern American Chapels*. Of course a ubiquitous one is falling in love and/or the petite mal of good sex.

A sadder one is with mental illness. People with bi-polar disorder will often report that they want the mania part of the illness, despite the consequences endured with the come down. I know a guy who is stabilized with lithium but unhappy, saying he feels 'dead' somehow. He does know that he needs to stay on the meds though, and has managed that.

A.

* - There is the old line from Cheech and Chong, about the Jesus freak: "She was all f***** up on drugs but now she's all f***** up on the Lord!"

 

[Playball40]

Some people (especially young people) become addicted to cutting due to the endorphin/dopamine release. SO scary.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I think your answer is that it depends on the person, as well as a variety of factors. Peruse any board dedicated to recreational drug use, and you'll see a lot of people have a high of choice that they prefer the best, but then they'll accept a range of certain substitutes when that hgh isn't available. Also, the same substance can affect people quite differently. I know a lot of people that smoke marijuana to relax, but it tends to put me on edge and increase my worries. Many people smoke marijuana for pain relief, but I find it tends to actually make my pain worse. For people that are addicted to a substance, sometimes a suitable replacement can be found to help them get by i the short term, or even help get them off the substance over the long term.

 

[Philos]

I think your answer is that it depends on the person, as well as a variety of factors. Peruse any board dedicated to recreational drug use, and you'll see a lot of people have a high of choice that they prefer the best, but then they'll accept a range of certain substitutes when that hgh isn't available. Also, the same substance can affect people quite differently. I know a lot of people that smoke marijuana to relax, but it tends to put me on edge and increase my worries. Many people smoke marijuana for pain relief, but I find it tends to actually make my pain worse. For people that are addicted to a substance, sometimes a suitable replacement can be found to help them get by i the short term, or even help get them off the substance over the long term.

braces,

Yes, I think you are on the money. Heroin - methadone is a clear example.

I've remembered a friend who used to do 'crossover'. This is someone injecting him with heroin in one arm and another person injecting cocaine in his other arm at the same time. He had some ill health and I've lost touch with him. His answer to the OP question would have been enlightening, maybe?

My go to is alcohol, but if I was on a desert island with no booze I would happily accept weed as an alternative, as long as it was legal.

A.

 

[Elixir]

Some people (especially young people) become addicted to cutting due to the endorphin/dopamine release. SO scary.

I am totally addicted to cutting, but I'm not sure this is what you meant:


What DID you mean? (Whatever it is, it's not as much fun as the above!)

 

[Shake]

There are different 'high's, I suppose. There are those who truly are "high on life" as well as the "runner's high"! The latter is obviously sport-specific and I'm sure there are parallels in other forms of exercise.