Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Derec]

I thought lefties were supposed to be against long prison sentences for non-violent crimes. Not AOC, at least not if the offender is white.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says college admissions scandal shows U.S. justice system "targets race" and pardons "crimes of wealth and privilege"

Note, those involved in the cheating scandal are still going to jail, just not for as long as AOC wants them to. And she, of course, never said anything about how Jussie Smolett's "wealth and privilege" (not to mention his race) allowed him to escape prosecution for his felony crimes altogether.

 

[Minnemooseus]

I thought lefties were supposed to be against long prison sentences for non-violent crimes. Not AOC, at least not if the offender is white.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says college admissions scandal shows U.S. justice system "targets race" and pardons "crimes of wealth and privilege"

Note, those involved in the cheating scandal are still going to jail, just not for as long as AOC wants them to. And she, of course, never said anything about how Jussie Smolett's "wealth and privilege" (not to mention his race) allowed him to escape prosecution for his felony crimes altogether.

My instincts for the cheating scandal is that the best thing would be a really big monetary fine, maybe along with a small jail/prison sentence.

And I can't see that a major punishment for Jussie Smolett is called for, when at the same time we have so many unjustified shootings by police happening. Really - Fake getting beat up, get a heavy penalty; Unjustified killing, no problem???

Moose

 

[southernhybrid]

I thought lefties were supposed to be against long prison sentences for non-violent crimes. Not AOC, at least not if the offender is white.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says college admissions scandal shows U.S. justice system "targets race" and pardons "crimes of wealth and privilege"

Note, those involved in the cheating scandal are still going to jail, just not for as long as AOC wants them to. And she, of course, never said anything about how Jussie Smolett's "wealth and privilege" (not to mention his race) allowed him to escape prosecution for his felony crimes altogether.

I read your link and she said no such thing as what you claimed. All she said is that wealthy people get lower sentences than poor people. She's right. There were two young black men, with no history of prior arrests, who were convicted of possession with intent to sell cocaine in my town. I was almost chosen for the jury, but because I support the legalization of drugs, I got lucky and wasn't chosen. One of the men received a 20 year sentence, while the other received a 30 year sentence. There was no violence or resisting arrests. They were simply found with illegal drugs. I also know a white man, who wasn't rich but he had more than enough money to afford a good lawyer. He was found with cocaine with intent, but he was given probation. This happens a lot more often than you seem to realize.

One of the women in the college cheating scam already is expected to be given a fine and placed under house arrest for a period of time. Would a poor person of color who committed a non violent crime like writing bad checks etc. be given such a sentence? I seriously doubt it.

Jesse Smollett is a celebrity with money. His crime was unusual but his celebrity image may have been why the charges were dropped. I doubt that his race had a thing to do with him having the charges dropped. Still, his was a very strange and unusual case.

This is what AOC actually said:

Our country has a “justice” system that criminalizes poverty + disproportionately targets race, yet routinely pardons large-scale crimes of wealth and privilege.

Those words are true. Poor people have been put in prison simply because they didn't have money to pay a fine. That's insane!

 

[marc]

One of the women in the college cheating scam already is expected to be given a fine and placed under house arrest for a period of time. Would a poor person of color who committed a non violent crime like writing bad checks etc. be given such a sentence? I seriously doubt it.

Specifically, black woman using her father's address to get her kids into a better school received 10 days in jail, one year probation. This was not to get into an elite collage with a lot of competition among applicants. This was to get into a better public school district.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Just got back from a few (mostly) unplugged days visiting my abuela in PR, and I see the President is tweeting about me. Just another day at the office! "
Abuela = grandmother in Spanish

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I rep one of the strongest concentrations of veterans in NYC. The Bronx VA provides excellent care and community for our vets, who sing its praises. The way to improve VA care & reduce wait times (which can be shorter than priv care!) is by fully funding it - not privatizing it."
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "The GOP participates in a lobbyist-friendly campaign to trash the VA, so we tear it up & shop out vet care to for-profit healthcare corps. To reduce VA wait times, we must FUND the VA so they can hire+fill the 48,000 vacancies for healthcare providers for our vets. #ProtectTheVA… https://t.co/F5a1msDZF0"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Like many public systems, GOP want to rip the battery out + say the whole car doesn’t work, so they can sell it for parts. Fully funding the VA & hiring to fill the *49k vacancies* is a clear path to improving it - not auctioning off our vet care systems to for-profit companies."
Sort of like killing one's parents and then begging for mercy because one is an orphan.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "To avoid looking completely + utterly out of touch w/ the reality our prison system: Instead of asking, “Should the Boston Bomber have the right to vote?” Try, “Should a nonviolent person stopped w/ a dime bag LOSE the right to vote?” Bc that question reflects WAY more people."
She ought to ask about the gun rights of prisoners some time. It's fun to watch Second Amendment absolutists squirm about this issue.

 

[PyramidHead]

Instead of asking, “Should the Boston Bomber have the right to vote?” Try, “Should a nonviolent person stopped w/ a dime bag LOSE the right to vote?” Bc that question reflects WAY more people."

She's spot-on here. And the issue is already revealing the priorities of several candidates, as well as the way the media handles them.

See this audience member's reaction to Pete Buttigeig saying that nobody in prison should get to vote:
https://twitter.com/Harbpeace/status/1120532405377486848

And this gem from Harris:

 

[Derec]

I read your link and she said no such thing as what you claimed.

The hell she doesn't!

All she said is that wealthy people get lower sentences than poor people. She's right.

Wealthy/famous people have access to better lawyers and sometimes an "in" with the prosecutors. But it is telling that AOC only finds that objectionable when it's a white person,not when it's somebody like Smollett.
And note, contrary to AOC's tweet, they were not "pardoned". The article she was responding to talks about 4-10 months in jail. That's hardly nothing, unlike what Jussie Smollett received.

There were two young black men, with no history of prior arrests, who were convicted of possession with intent to sell cocaine in my town. I was almost chosen for the jury, but because I support the legalization of drugs, I got lucky and wasn't chosen. One of the men received a 20 year sentence, while the other received a 30 year sentence. There was no violence or resisting arrests. They were simply found with illegal drugs.

Without knowing particulars it's really hard to comment. Like how much cocaine were they caught with?

I also know a white man, who wasn't rich but he had more than enough money to afford a good lawyer. He was found with cocaine with intent, but he was given probation. This happens a lot more often than you seem to realize.

Again, how much? Your vague stories do not offer enough info to suggest race played a role.

One of the women in the college cheating scam already is expected to be given a fine and placed under house arrest for a period of time. Would a poor person of color who committed a non violent crime like writing bad checks etc. be given such a sentence? I seriously doubt it.

I think probation for check fraud is a common penalty. Also, where did you hear about "house arrest"? I heard 4-10 months in jail.

Jesse Smollett is a celebrity with money. His crime was unusual but his celebrity image may have been why the charges were dropped. I doubt that his race had a thing to do with him having the charges dropped. Still, his was a very strange and unusual case.

Given that Kim Foxxx was elected on a Black Lives Matter platform, I very much doubt race did not play any role in her decision to have her office roll over and play dead.

Our country has a “justice” system that criminalizes poverty

Really? It's a crime to be poor?

+ disproportionately targets race,

Only as long as she ignores all the black people getting off with light or no punishment.

yet routinely pardons large-scale crimes of wealth and privilege.

A guilty plea and a jail sentence is not "pardoning" a crime. Dropping 14 felony charges even though you have the perp dead to rights is. But AOC ignores it because it runs counter to her ideological dogma that "our country has a "justice" system that ... disproportionately targets race"

Those words are true.

No, they are not.

Poor people have been put in prison simply because they didn't have money to pay a fine. That's insane!

Not true. Nobody lands in prison for not paying a fine. You might be confusing prisons and jails?
That said, if anybody is jailed for not being able to afford a fine, I think that's a bad policy. But the cases I have seen is less inability to pay a fine, and more ignoring a court date and getting an FTA warrant issued for your ass.

 

[Derec]

Instead of asking, “Should the Boston Bomber have the right to vote?” Try, “Should a nonviolent person stopped w/ a dime bag LOSE the right to vote?” Bc that question reflects WAY more people."

She's spot-on here.

I doubt (m)any people get a felony for getting caught with a dime bag. And we are talking here about felons.
That said, Sanders really stepped into it saying that Islamic terrorists on death row should vote.

And the issue is already revealing the priorities of several candidates, as well as the way the media handles them.

Indeed.

 

[Derec]

Specifically, black woman using her father's address to get her kids into a better school received 10 days in jail, one year probation. This was not to get into an elite collage with a lot of competition among applicants. This was to get into a better public school district.

10 days << 4-10 months. So you are not exactly backing up AOC here.
And fraud is still fraud. Do you really think black parents should be allowed to falsify where their children live with no consequences?
We are talking tax-payer funded education here. The mother wasn't paying taxes in the district she sent her children to.

 

[Derec]

My instincts for the cheating scandal is that the best thing would be a really big monetary fine, maybe along with a small jail/prison sentence.

I agree.

And I can't see that a major punishment for Jussie Smolett is called for,

Who said anything about a "major punishment"? But some punishment is in order. Pay restitution to CPD for time he wasted and say 200 hours of community service would be about right. Dismissal of the case is not.

when at the same time we have so many unjustified shootings by police happening.

What does that have to do with anything? And besides, when police shoot somebody without justification, they go to prison. Like Slager in North Charleston.
What activists want is to send every police officer who kills a black perp to prison no matter if it was justified or not. Michael Brown's killing was not unjustified just because it triggered rioting. Mario Woods' shooting wasn't unjustified just because of Beyonce's half time show.

 

[laughing dog]

Not true. Nobody lands in prison for not paying a fine. You might be confusing prisons and jails?

Nope. https://www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/yes-lots-of-people-go-to-jail-because-they-cant-pay-a-fine-20180202

In some jurisdictions, about 20 percent of those serving time were incarcerated because they didn’t pay their criminal justice debts, according to a Council of Economic Advisors issue paper.

Consider the impossible situation faced by newly released inmates. Many are poor when they enter the system; along with their conviction comes fines and fees. As one example, in Washington state, these average $1,300 for a felony conviction, according to research by University of Washington sociology professor Alexes Harris.

Interest is charged on the original debt, and by the time an inmate is released, their debt may have grown quite large. Finding a job that pays enough to make payments on these debts is difficult after incarceration, especially since public housing and other services are denied to those convicted felons. This challenge is even greater for released inmates who are mentally ill, physically disabled, have a history of substance abuse, or have few social support systems.

 

[Derec]

Not true. Nobody lands in prison for not paying a fine. You might be confusing prisons and jails?

Nope. https://www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/yes-lots-of-people-go-to-jail-because-they-cant-pay-a-fine-20180202

Again. Jail != prison. If somebody is sent back to prison, that is because of the original felony conviction, not because of not paying a fine.
It's like those ridiculous articles with headlines like "[some high prison sentence] for [some relatively minor crime]" that inevitably turn out to be parole violations for [some major original crime] that determines the length of sentence. If you are on parole, you have not served your sentence yet. You are allowed to serve the remained of your sentence on the outside, but you have to keep your nose clean as it were.

 

[Arctish]

Not true. Nobody lands in prison for not paying a fine. You might be confusing prisons and jails?

Nope. https://www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/yes-lots-of-people-go-to-jail-because-they-cant-pay-a-fine-20180202

Again. Jail != prison. If somebody is sent back to prison, that is because of the original felony conviction, not because of not paying a fine.
It's like those ridiculous articles with headlines like "[some high prison sentence] for [some relatively minor crime]" that inevitably turn out to be parole violations for [some major original crime] that determines the length of sentence. If you are on parole, you have not served your sentence yet. You are allowed to serve the remained of your sentence on the outside, but you have to keep your nose clean as it were.

United States v. City of Ferguson:

"Following the release of the Report of a lengthy civil rights investigation of the City of Ferguson, its police department and its municipal court, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) filed a complaint against the City of Ferguson. The complaint alleged, among other things, that the City’s conduct related to the imposition and enforcement of fines and fees for traffic and other municipal code violations was unconstitutional. DOJ asserted that Ferguson relied heavily on revenue from municipal code violations to fund city government, pressured the police department to issue as many citations as possible, charged excessive fines and fees, and incarcerated people who could not afford to pay the fines and fees imposed without any determination of their ability to pay."

Jailed over unpaid fines, court costs: debtors’ prisons?

Jail Time For Unpaid Court Fines And Fees Can Create Cycle Of Poverty

I doubt those who are incarcerated due to the inability to pay a fine care much about quibbling over the difference between jail and prison. They're behind bars because they're poor.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Reminder: - Slavery Jim Crow + Redlining War on Drugs Mass Incarceration - Black Americans & PoC are far more likely to be convicted + sentenced longer than White Americans for similar crimes. - Our system routinely criminalizes poverty + exonerates wealth"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Many rebut the voting question by saying, “Well, *those* people shouldn’t be jailed.” Glad you feel that way! But the truth is, the US incarcerates more people per capita than anywhere in the world - even more than China. Our system is built to disenfranchise people of color … https://t.co/uWINFTcS49"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "-We “shouldn’t” incarcerate for nonviolent offenses, -We “shouldn’t” have school-to-prison pipelines, -We “shouldn’t” sentence poc more than white people for similar crimes, ...but we do. We’re so eager to talk about punishment, but correcting our injustices is “controversial.”"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "To understand how racial injustice works subconsciously in America, all you need to do is watch how quickly + readily some people jump to justify stripping voting rights for millions of people, yet how uncomfortable and fraught that convo becomes when one brings up reparations."
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "GOP already bad-faith attacking “nonviolent offenses.” Clearly if you are looking at CONTEXT CLUES in my thread & limits of 280 chars you know I’m referring to nonviolent drug offenses. Swear it’s like we’re back to encouraging 1st grade readers when it comes to some “pundits.”"

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Step 1: Call yourself the “Grim Reaper for socialist legislation” Step 2: Call anything + everything “socialist legislation” Step 3: Profit... (...from $300/mo insulin, fracking pipelines, poisoned water, for-profit prisons, pricing out communities, assault weapons, etc)… https://t.co/JkeN12VxI5" noting CNN Politics on Twitter: "Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vows to be “Grim Reaper” for socialist legislation [url]https://t.co/3pMcUG50pf… "[/url]

 

[laughing dog]

Not true. Nobody lands in prison for not paying a fine. You might be confusing prisons and jails?

Nope. https://www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/yes-lots-of-people-go-to-jail-because-they-cant-pay-a-fine-20180202

Again. Jail != prison. If somebody is sent back to prison, that is because of the original felony conviction, not because of not paying a fine.

That article says different. Perhaps the reporter got it wrong or perhaps you have it wrong. But as Arctish nicely put it - your quibbling misses the real point.

 

[bilby]

Again. Jail != prison. If somebody is sent back to prison, that is because of the original felony conviction, not because of not paying a fine.

That article says different. Perhaps the reporter got it wrong or perhaps you have it wrong. But as Arctish nicely put it - your quibbling misses the real point.

The distinction between prison and jail is unique to the USA. In the rest of the English speaking world, they are synonymous.

The US reserves 'prison' as meaning a short-term holding centre for people not yet convicted; The rest of the world calls these facilities 'police cells', 'watch houses' and/or 'remand centres', and uses both 'prison' and 'jail' to mean any of these, or a place where a convict serves his sentence.

Americans, as usual, are wrong.

 

[angelo]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Reminder: - Slavery Jim Crow + Redlining War on Drugs Mass Incarceration - Black Americans & PoC are far more likely to be convicted + sentenced longer than White Americans for similar crimes. - Our system routinely criminalizes poverty + exonerates wealth"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Many rebut the voting question by saying, “Well, *those* people shouldn’t be jailed.” Glad you feel that way! But the truth is, the US incarcerates more people per capita than anywhere in the world - even more than China. Our system is built to disenfranchise people of color … https://t.co/uWINFTcS49"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "-We “shouldn’t” incarcerate for nonviolent offenses, -We “shouldn’t” have school-to-prison pipelines, -We “shouldn’t” sentence poc more than white people for similar crimes, ...but we do. We’re so eager to talk about punishment, but correcting our injustices is “controversial.”"
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "To understand how racial injustice works subconsciously in America, all you need to do is watch how quickly + readily some people jump to justify stripping voting rights for millions of people, yet how uncomfortable and fraught that convo becomes when one brings up reparations."
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "GOP already bad-faith attacking “nonviolent offenses.” Clearly if you are looking at CONTEXT CLUES in my thread & limits of 280 chars you know I’m referring to nonviolent drug offenses. Swear it’s like we’re back to encouraging 1st grade readers when it comes to some “pundits.”"

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Step 1: Call yourself the “Grim Reaper for socialist legislation” Step 2: Call anything + everything “socialist legislation” Step 3: Profit... (...from $300/mo insulin, fracking pipelines, poisoned water, for-profit prisons, pricing out communities, assault weapons, etc)… https://t.co/JkeN12VxI5" noting CNN Politics on Twitter: "Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vows to be “Grim Reaper” for socialist legislation [url]https://t.co/3pMcUG50pf… "[/url]

What's happening here! I thought the fruitcake was going to curb her use of social media for the sake of her health, whatever that means. It seems she's talking out of her arse again!
https://nypost.com/2019/04/15/ocasio-cortez-says-shes-cutting-back-on-social-media-for-her-health/

 

[lpetrich]

Ocasio-Cortez deletes tweet mistakenly identifying top Democrat as GOP member - CNNPolitics

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Civics lesson for the NRA: As much as they may not like it, the Bronx and Queens are part of “the real America,” too. Wild that the NRA is suggesting the voters of NY-14 aren’t “real Americans” bc they don’t think assault weapons in school classrooms is a good idea.… https://t.co/ycSYv4ySui" noting Timothy Johnson on Twitter: "At the NRA annual meeting, NRA top lobbyist Chris Cox says “the real America” is going to vote @AOC out of office [url]https://t.co/U2uuPQSqct… https://t.co/KUpTeL0udx"[/url]

Reminds me of

"I never use the words Democrats and Republicans. It's liberals and Americans."
--James Watt, November 1981, cited in The New York Times, October 10, 1983

He was Ronald Reagan's first Secretary of the Interior (Environment - The Reagan Years).

 

[Derec]

What's happening here! I thought the fruitcake was going to curb her use of social media for the sake of her health, whatever that means. It seems she's talking out of her arse again!
https://nypost.com/2019/04/15/ocasio-cortez-says-shes-cutting-back-on-social-media-for-her-health/

 

[Derec]

DOJ asserted that Ferguson relied heavily on revenue from municipal code violations to fund city government, pressured the police department to issue as many citations as possible,

How is that worse than "speedersfundus" type of towns whose main source of revenue seems to be traffic fines levied against out-of-towners? At least in the case of Ferguson, the fine-payers also enjoy the services their fines provide.

charged excessive fines and fees, and incarcerated people who could not afford to pay the fines and fees imposed without any determination of their ability to pay."[/I]

Fines should not be excessive, for sure, but I think the main problem in Ferguson was a high rate of people ignoring their court dates, getting FTA warrants, and getting arrested over them.

I doubt those who are incarcerated due to the inability to pay a fine care much about quibbling over the difference between jail and prison. They're behind bars because they're poor.

They are in jail because they got a ticket which they ignored.