alien as creator of man so called theory

[BH]

I have a question. Some have theorized we were created long ago by an ancient race of aliens.

I think the idea is total bunkum.

But, when did this idea come about? I have read that it goes back to at least the late 1800's. Anyone know if it went back any further?

 

[dystopian]

I have a question. Some have theorized we were created long ago by an ancient race of aliens.

I think the idea is total bunkum.

But, when did this idea come about? I have read that it goes back to at least the late 1800's. Anyone know if it went back any further?

...read where?; because that's the first I've heard of this idea stretching back that far in any serious notion. Afaik, the idea (or at least its popularity) is mainly attributable to Erich von Daniken. He likely got the basic idea from Carl Sagan and Iosif Shklovsky; who argued it was *possible* that an alien race had *contacted* us in the past (so *not*, "created").

A quick look on wikipedia shows that the first person who put forth the whole "Ancient Astronauts" thing in a serious manner was a British Historian/Journalist called Harold T. Wilkins, in 1954. Before that, it was only a science fiction thing; and not something people gave serious credence to (not that they do that now, apart from a few crazy people).

 

[steve_bnk]

It is not all completely out of the question.

Potentially with some breakthroughs humans may travel to anther star and seed-engineer a biosphere.

 

[BH]

Dystopian,


I read it in a book critical of the idea. It was just mentioned someone back in the 1800's came up with the idea but the author of this work did not go into further detail. I know about Von Daniekan. I know it was a plot device in Quartermass and the Pitt in the 50's.

 

[bilby]

It seems to me that there are a couple of 'problems' that people try to solve using aliens bringing life to Earth.

Some try to use it as a solution to the 'How did life ever get started?' question - the Panspermia hypothesis is an example of this. Of course, hypothesising that life arose elsewhere does not solve the problem of how life arose - it just places the events in a far away setting. There seems to be no reason to imagine that life would more readily have started elsewhere in the universe, particularly given what we know about the conditions elsewhere in the universe at the time that this might have occurred; it would have to be before the Solar System formed, in order for the life to have time to arise, and then travel to here, arriving at the time we know life first appears in the geological record. This kind of thing appeals to those who cannot let go of the tired arguments of the creationists, who claim that abiogenesis was impossible; But who have managed to ditch God, and are now short of an explanation of how life arose on Earth. Why 'abiogenesis here' is felt to be less likely than 'abiogenesis elsewhere' + 'interstellar transfer of life', I could not say, but to me it seems un-parsimonious in the extreme.

Others seek to solve the 'How can we make humans special; I don't want to be just an animal' problem. This is a psychological problem rather than a biological one; aliens tampering with chimps to make 'super chimps' - us - simply isn't needed to explain our observed characteristics. The same goes for aliens tampering with mammals to make primates - if you are of a mind to include the apes and/or monkeys in with the 'super animals'. This is a solution in search of a problem which doesn't exist outside the egos of the searchers.

 

[dystopian]

For me, the real problem is the fossil record; if Aliens came and created humans, they certainly didn't create Homo Sapiens Sapiens (ie; US). We have a fairly unbroken chain showing how we evolved; taking place over many millions of years, and we know human intelligence and its various associated effects didn't start with the current species (precursors also show an understanding of things like art, tool use, and even religion) So *if* aliens were involved we'd be forced to draw a couple of conclusions: 1) they didn't *create* us, they just adjusted some genes along the way for some reason, 2) they made these changes subtle enough that they wouldn't manifest immediately (why a hyper-advanced alien race couldn't or wouldn't introduce more immediate results rather than waiting a million years is not clear), and 3) they did this for no apparent purpose. They supposedly just did it and then buggered off.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So *if* aliens were involved we'd be forced to draw a couple of conclusions: 1) they didn't *create* us, they just adjusted some genes along the way for some reason,

And that would be the Quartermas plot, as i recall. Martians came, altered some early humanoids, left them loose to breed with the rest of their order. Maybe a slight advantage so their genes would dominate the gene pool.

3) they did this for no apparent purpose. They supposedly just did it and then buggered off.

IIRC, part of the Martians' gene tinkering included making humans a slave race. Their goal seemed to be that if they ever needed to invade/inhabit Earth, a significant portion of the population would walk zombie-like and perform as they were instructed. The later the invasion, the more these genes would have spread through the population.

 

[skepticalbip]

For me, the real problem is the fossil record; if Aliens came and created humans, they certainly didn't create Homo Sapiens Sapiens (ie; US). We have a fairly unbroken chain showing how we evolved; taking place over many millions of years, and we know human intelligence and its various associated effects didn't start with the current species (precursors also show an understanding of things like art, tool use, and even religion) So *if* aliens were involved we'd be forced to draw a couple of conclusions: 1) they didn't *create* us, they just adjusted some genes along the way for some reason, 2) they made these changes subtle enough that they wouldn't manifest immediately (why a hyper-advanced alien race couldn't or wouldn't introduce more immediate results rather than waiting a million years is not clear), and 3) they did this for no apparent purpose. They supposedly just did it and then buggered off.

Did you ever read Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey. Those fucking aliens just modified some cheerful, happy apes living in harmony with nature to make them become sapient.
1. right
2. right, they gave us reason but left free will.
3. They were willing to wait a few million years to have the company of us joining their community.

 

[BH]

I thought in Quartermass the Martians realized their planet was dying, so tried to genetically engineer apes in such a way where their brains could somehow be a safe haven to Martian minds somehow telepathically transported from a Martian body to an then human body. The experiment was only a partial success with Mars dying out too fast for the Martians to complete the change.

 

[ShannyFan]

I just finished reading the book "The Man Who Fell to Earth." Interesting book, and the movie was an interesting interpretation. One of the book's ideas was the influence of the "Antheans" on earthmen. But it was dealt with in a more philosophical than scientific manner.

And it was only published in the early 60s.

 

[dystopian]

Did you ever read Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey. Those fucking aliens just modified some cheerful, happy apes living in harmony with nature to make them become sapient.
1. right
2. right, they gave us reason but left free will.
3. They were willing to wait a few million years to have the company of us joining their community.

What are you talking about? Those hermit assholes didn't want us to join them on Europa.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Did you ever read Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey. Those fucking aliens just modified some cheerful, happy apes living in harmony with nature to make them become sapient.
1. right
2. right, they gave us reason but left free will.
3. They were willing to wait a few million years to have the company of us joining their community.

What are you talking about? Those hermit assholes didn't want us to join them on Europa.

Actually, those menhir assholes were protecting the life that already existed on Europa from us, not the menhirs.
Their collapsing of Jupiter into a new sun was their way of warming Europa enough that the life there could eventually join us, Just like when they taught primitive humans to throw bones in the air and make satellites.

 

[dystopian]

What are you talking about? Those hermit assholes didn't want us to join them on Europa.

Actually, those menhir assholes were protecting the life that already existed on Europa from us, not the menhirs.
Their collapsing of Jupiter into a new sun was their way of warming Europa enough that the life there could eventually join us, Just like when they taught primitive humans to throw bones in the air and make satellites.

That explanation wasn't in the movie!

... was it?

Also, the correct term is monoliths!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolith_(Space_Odyssey)

 

[braces_for_impact]

Obviously you guys don't watch Doctor Who or you would know the answer to this question.

1) The 10th Doctor and Donna, investigating the Empress of Racnoss' desire to reach the Earth's core in 2007, witness the formation of the Earth and discover that a Racnoss ship, containing the last survivors of that race, is the point around which the Earth shapes itself.

and

2) A spaceship containing the last few Jagaroth attempts a premature lift-off from Earth. The ship explodes, destroying the last of the Jagaroth, save for the ship's pilot, Scaroth, who is "splintered" across time, leaving copies of himself spread throughout Earth's history. The explosion also releases a blast of radiation which activates some nearby "primordial soup", creating life on Earth.

So the answer is yes, but it was unintentional.

 

[Angry Floof]

Obviously you guys don't watch Doctor Who or you would know the answer to this question.

1) The 10th Doctor and Donna, investigating the Empress of Racnoss' desire to reach the Earth's core in 2007, witness the formation of the Earth and discover that a Racnoss ship, containing the last survivors of that race, is the point around which the Earth shapes itself.

and

2) A spaceship containing the last few Jagaroth attempts a premature lift-off from Earth. The ship explodes, destroying the last of the Jagaroth, save for the ship's pilot, Scaroth, who is "splintered" across time, leaving copies of himself spread throughout Earth's history. The explosion also releases a blast of radiation which activates some nearby "primordial soup", creating life on Earth.

So the answer is yes, but it was unintentional.

Serious geekage.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That explanation wasn't in the movie!

... was it?

Sort of. It wasn't explicit, but I read the book and recognized some elements as appealing to the subplot.

Also, the correct term is monoliths!

I was being ironic... They're not even the right shape for menhir...

- - - Updated - - -

Serious geekage.

Isn't that redundant?

 

[Will Wiley]

What is the difference between a god and an alien?

 

[braces_for_impact]

Depends on which god and which alien? Clarke's quote about high tech being indistinguishable from magic notwithstanding, using common meanings for the terms, I would think that many would agree that god is a creator, while aliens, however advanced they are were ultimately products of the natural universe like ourselves.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Depends on which god and which alien? Clarke's quote about high tech being indistinguishable from magic notwithstanding, using common meanings for the terms, I would think that many would agree that god is a creator, while aliens, however advanced they are were ultimately products of the natural universe like ourselves.

Isaac Asimov, The Last Question.

A god that's the product of a natural universe.

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

 

[Bronzeage]

Obviously you guys don't watch Doctor Who or you would know the answer to this question.

1) The 10th Doctor and Donna, investigating the Empress of Racnoss' desire to reach the Earth's core in 2007, witness the formation of the Earth and discover that a Racnoss ship, containing the last survivors of that race, is the point around which the Earth shapes itself.

and

2) A spaceship containing the last few Jagaroth attempts a premature lift-off from Earth. The ship explodes, destroying the last of the Jagaroth, save for the ship's pilot, Scaroth, who is "splintered" across time, leaving copies of himself spread throughout Earth's history. The explosion also releases a blast of radiation which activates some nearby "primordial soup", creating life on Earth.

So the answer is yes, but it was unintentional.

This is just a variation of the common adolescent fantasy, where a teen is certain the people in his house are not his "real parents."