Another Day In The USA

[Derec]

It seems that only in the USA are mass shootings a partisan issue.

I hear you on mass shootings. Much more needs to be done to prevent these. Guns, including rifles with large capacity magazines, are way too easy to get in this country.
That does not mean that guns per se are useless for protection.

Another example:
Police: Attempted robber shot multiple times by would-be victim in self defense at Bell Road ATM

 

[Derec]

Because these types of rampage shooting are overwhelmingly enacted by white males.

Why restrict it to "rampage" shootings? Overall, if we count all gun crimes, blacks are much more likely to engage in them. But I do not see you singling out blacks, only whites.
I think you have some internalized anti-white racism.

 

[RavenSky]

it does suck for some people who want to protect themselves today.

"Sorry, your life isn't worth protecting today.

Exactly what the NRA and right-wing nutbags say.

 

[RavenSky]

After next week's mass shooting, someone's going to post that "Guns are awful" and then someone else is going to post "But guns don't kill people". and on and on it goes.

I think both sides are way too entrenched in their extreme positions at this point.

Sensible gun reform is not an "extreme position"

 

[RavenSky]

Because these types of rampage shooting are overwhelmingly enacted by white males.

Why restrict it to "rampage" shootings? ,snipped the blah blah blah>.

Because THIS shooting is a rampage shooting. You want to start your typical bullshit? Go start a different thread.

 

[RavenSky]

10:15 - apparently the time this rampage shooter initially attempted to post his racist screed addressed to the FBI

10:39 - first 911 call about the shooting

 

[Derec]

Sensible gun reform is not an "extreme position"

I didn't say it was.

 

[Rhea]

Because these types of rampage shooting are overwhelmingly enacted by white males.

Why restrict it to "rampage" shootings? Overall, if we count all gun crimes, blacks are much more likely to engage in them. But I do not see you singling out blacks, only whites.
I think you have some internalized anti-white racism.

I have always maintained, and posted over and over again, that proper gun controls would mitigate both dangers. I don’t know anyone who talks about the mass shooters who argues that.

I don’t know why you keep conveniently forgetting it and talking like it hasn’t been said nearly every time.

If you background check (really)
If you audit dealers (really)
If you register and insure
If you have VERY HGH penalties for unregistered uninsured,
If you have annual audits of owners - can start with self-audits
If you follow those reports up with consequences for a stolen gun being unreported...
If you ban the rapid-fire weapons and the large clips,
If you do all of these things,

Both the mass shootings and the constant crime-world shootings will be reduced to the benefit of us all.
Mass shootings are particularly talked about because the high capacity magazines involved would be so easy to start with, and because people selfishly tend to focus on the crimes that might hit them - public places, people who are considered “innocent”.

 

[RavenSky]

Identifying himself as a member of the military with a license to carry gun, Glen Oakley told media outlets he was shopping at a Foot Locker close to the scene when he heard gunshots. He immediately readied his own firearm and headed towards the parking lot. On his way, he noticed several scared, unattended children and tried to get as many as he could to safety.

"I saw a whole bunch of kids just running around without their parents," he said. "I was trying to pick them up, one by one, as many as I can and just run out ... it was just a whole bunch of kids in there. I'm sorry, I'm shaking.

"I was just so worried about those kids, man," he continued. "I was just trying to pick up those kids, man. I wasn't really worried about myself ... I just hope those kids are all right. That's all I'm thinking about is the kids."

This is Glen Oakley.

He was in the @FootLocker when the El Paso shooting happened. When he ran to leave, he saw kids in the mall without their parents, scared and alone.

So he picked up as many as he could and carried them to safety.

Focus on the heroes.

 

[RavenSky]

Sensible gun reform is not an "extreme position"

I didn't say it was.

You play the "both sides" game.

I think both sides are way too entrenched in their extreme positions at this point.

 

[repoman]

Jewish?

 

[Elixir]

Another 4Chan terrorist Half-Wit.
Most terror acts in the US in recent years are perpetrated by right wing trumpsucking extremists.
Maybe it's time to stop talking about their mental health and do something about them.

 

[Patooka]

Because these types of rampage shooting are overwhelmingly enacted by white males.

Why restrict it to "rampage" shootings? Overall, if we count all gun crimes, blacks are much more likely to engage in them. But I do not see you singling out blacks, only whites.
I think you have some internalized anti-white racism.

I have always maintained, and posted over and over again, that proper gun controls would mitigate both dangers. I don’t know anyone who talks about the mass shooters who argues that.

I don’t know why you keep conveniently forgetting it and talking like it hasn’t been said nearly every time.

If you background check (really)
If you audit dealers (really)
If you register and insure
If you have VERY HGH penalties for unregistered uninsured,
If you have annual audits of owners - can start with self-audits
If you follow those reports up with consequences for a stolen gun being unreported...
If you ban the rapid-fire weapons and the large clips,
If you do all of these things,

Both the mass shootings and the constant crime-world shootings will be reduced to the benefit of us all.
Mass shootings are particularly talked about because the high capacity magazines involved would be so easy to start with, and because people selfishly tend to focus on the crimes that might hit them - public places, people who are considered “innocent”.

You left out one very important point; if you did all of these things, it wouldn't affect responsible gun owners one fucking bit. Just in case someone wants to chime in with the "regulation only punishes the good guys" bullshit.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There's no problem with being entrenched in a position if that position reflects reality.

The "guns are useless for protection" position does not reflect reality though.
I would support gun license and liability insurance requirements though.

That's good to hear. Perhaps more people will come to this position.

More guns obviously does not solve anything, for if more guns solved the problem we wouldn't have these incidents of mass murder.

I'll agree that having a firearm makes me feel better if I'm worried about someone else having a gun and using it against me. But think about that situation, if everyone carried a gun we'd have a lot more gun deaths. No sane person will argue otherwise.

From what I've encountered, gun owners typically don't care how many of these incidents occur because they value their guns more. They could lose their children, friends and families in an incident like this and would only want more guns out there. There is no threshold for them, and I'm certain you agree with me.

So licensing and liability like we do with autos is the only sane path. It will reduce the use and number of guns out there which will reduce the number of these incidents.

I don't hate guns, nor do I love guns, but I do hate incidents like this occurring, and more guns out there will only bring on more incidents.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

5) You must pass a practical test and obtain a licence before you are permitted to drive a vehicle

(Nitpick: Before you are allowed to drive vehicle on public roads. You can drive on private land without that license.)

I would have no problem with requiring such a license other than under a direct supervision situation. The gun rights people rightly fear this, however, because required licensing has too often been used as a means to deny guns to the "wrong" people. (Not only race, but even a matter of whether you are properly connected. Or whether you paid the proper bribe.)

6) Vehicles that are able to do more harm (heavy vehicles) require additional licences

We take that too far already--the stuff you are talking about are the NFA items. (And that includes suppressors--things that causes no harm and are unrestricted in some places with much stricter gun laws than we have.)

7) Vehicles must be registered and a record of vehicles and their owners is kept by the state

This is about taxation and about identifying vehicles as they hide their occupants. It's not really relevant to guns.

8) Before operating a vehicle, you must have third party insurance to cover any injuries you cause to others (and in many jurisdictions also to cover any damage done to their property).

And very few misused of guns would be covered by the sort of insurance that we have to carry for cars.

Note that #7 and #8 are both backdoor attempts at the gun-banner's holy grail: A list of all guns in private hands in the US.

If guns in the US were regulated just like motor vehicles are, there would be far fewer gun owners and likely far fewer shootings. But if you even hinted at bringing in such a level of regulation, the NRA would have a fit.

But you would have done nothing about the guns in criminal hands. I would expect the death toll to go up.

 

[repoman]

Is that his manifesto?

Ecoterrorist as well?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

it does suck for some people who want to protect themselves today.

"Sorry, your life isn't worth protecting today. Fill out all the paperwork and if it all checks out, you can start defending your own life in a few weeks or so. Hopefully nothing bad happens to you until then."

I’ve successfully defended myself against assault in more than one occasion. At less than 62 inches in height and somewhere south of 100 lbs. No guns. I’ve had multiple family members who were held up at their own homes, including elderly relatives. The only time anyone was hurt was my then middle aged uncle who was a war veteran and a life long hunter and expert marksman. He was being robbed of his own guns in his own home. When he made the move to ‘defend himself and my aunt against the attacker’s, one fired one of my uncle’s own guns st his head, narrowly missing him.

So, I call bullshit on guns ‘protecting’ innocent people in their own homes or on their own property.

The fact that people kill such attackers hundreds of times per year (and probably injure them thousands of times per year but we don't have good data on that) proves that such protection does mean something.

Note, also, that deterrence is a factor--guns can protect while never even being drawn. Several years ago we had a burglar in the neighborhood. Every house that was hit was a place I would evaluate the occupants as neither physically a threat (60+, no appearance of being in shape), nor people at all likely to own a gun (People from areas without a gun culture.) Chance?? I don't think so--the burglar obviously was local and picking the lowest risk targets. Furthermore, when burglars are asked about risks on the job they put armed homeowners as a greater threat than the police.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It seems that only in the USA are mass shootings a partisan issue.

I hear you on mass shootings. Much more needs to be done to prevent these. Guns, including rifles with large capacity magazines, are way too easy to get in this country.

Except it doesn't add up that magazine capacity matters. There has been only one mass shooting where someone was in a position to deal with the shooter during a magazine change and that one was actually irrelevant as his reload was damaged and wouldn't have fed--had he not been interrupted he couldn't have shot anyone else anyway.

Meanwhile, nobody wants to look at the possibility that antidepressants are a factor in mass shootings. It appears that a small number of people react very strangely to them, but we do nothing about improving the monitoring of their use to see if that's an issue. Can't have that, big pharma would be very afraid of lawsuits.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because these types of rampage shooting are overwhelmingly enacted by white males.

Why restrict it to "rampage" shootings? Overall, if we count all gun crimes, blacks are much more likely to engage in them. But I do not see you singling out blacks, only whites.
I think you have some internalized anti-white racism.

Rampage shootings are what people are afraid of. Those black-on-black murders are mostly criminal-on-criminal, easily avoided by not being a criminal.

 

[blastula]

Another one ongoing now in Dayton, OH.

https://www.whio.com/news/crime--la...oting-oregon-district/dHOvgFCs726CylnDLdZQxM/