Moved Another step towards answering the question of life's origins - religion

[bilby]

Meanwhile, Lion, please respond to this post, which oddly, you have not done so far.

I believe I am on his ignore list, so he probably hasn't seen it.

I guess it's easier to have faith in bad ideas, if you refuse to even look at any counterarguments for which you have no pre-prepared rebuttal.

 

[pood]

Meanwhile, Lion, please respond to this post, which oddly, you have not done so far.

I believe I am on his ignore list, so he probably hasn't seen it.

In that case I’ll just reproduce the post for him in quoted form.

 

[Lion IRC]

Are you actually asserting, without evidence, that humans cause brain cancer in children?

Yes. There's plenty of evidence that human activity causes cancer.

Since you seem unfamiliar with the science, here; www.who.int

- Smoking. (Apparently God didn't make us smart enough to know that setting fire to tobacco and deliberately inhaling the smoke isn't natural.)

- Over eating. (Listed in the bible under gluttony)

- Alcohol and substance abuse. (Who would have guessed?)

- Physical inactivity (Listed in the bible under sloth)

God arranged nature so that certain types of sin would cause cancer? Is that the claim?

No. That's not the claim.

What about non-sinners who get cancer?

I'm looking for the causes of cancer.
I don't argue that sin causes cancer.

Secret sins? Collateral damage? Revenge against sinful parents who died before they could be properly punished?

I don't think that.
There might be someone here who does.
You'd have to argue that with them.

Most atheists I know think the bible isn't persuasive and they don't believe there's an afterlife. (Stop worrying. God isnt real. Enjoy whatever you want.)

Did atheists actually tell you that atheism freed them from moral behavior?

Some have yes.
But atheists are a very diverse group with a variety of views about morality.
My point was that most don't accept the bible as authoritative and most don't think hell exists.

Do you think Christians are significantly more moral than non-Christians?

No. Because there are other religions which also hold that God is the moral law giver and acting morally is a core value. (Love God. Love your neighbour.)

 

[Lion IRC]

Meanwhile, Lion, please respond to this post, which oddly, you have not done so far.

I believe I am on his ignore list, so he probably hasn't seen it.

I guess it's easier to have faith in bad ideas, if you refuse to even look at any counterarguments for which you have no pre-prepared rebuttal.

I don't have anyone on ignore.

 

[steve_bank]

Meanwhile, Lion, please respond to this post, which oddly, you have not done so far.

I believe I am on his ignore list, so he probably hasn't seen it.

I guess it's easier to have faith in bad ideas, if you refuse to even look at any counterarguments for which you have no pre-prepared rebuttal.

I don't have anyone on ignore.

You have our arguments and questions on ignore...in a manner of speaking.

 

[steve_bank]

I wreathed an interview with the pope.

Completely and utterly self assured in his belief he is a moral authority over the world.

True believers will never consider anything contrary.

 

[bilby]

Meanwhile, Lion, please respond to this post, which oddly, you have not done so far.

I believe I am on his ignore list, so he probably hasn't seen it.

I guess it's easier to have faith in bad ideas, if you refuse to even look at any counterarguments for which you have no pre-prepared rebuttal.

I don't have anyone on ignore.

You and bilby are on the same list Rhea

You can see how I would get the opposite impression.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

It's a weird objection when atheists whine about God of the gaps.

What they are saying is God shouldn't be used as a placeholder explanation for stuff that can't otherwise be explained by the scientific method.

But these are the same atheists who say the only thing that would convince them God exists, is if...WAIT FOR IT....they experienced...

"something which couldnt be explained by the scientific method."

One could just as easily say that since RNA could be created without divine intervention then score one for the evolutionists.

Theres that word AGAIN
Created.

...not a win for evolutionists IMHO

If an asteroid hits the Earth, and the impact forms a crater, the crater is created. It doesn't mean someone personally created the crater. Do you know how words work?

Also, rain can create slippery roads which can contribute to car accidents. I guess that's gawd's fault.

Edited because I accidentally posted a draft.

 

[Elixir]

Do you know how words work?

Are you kidding?
There is exactly ONE thing that creos know how to work, and it’s WORDS.
Unfortunately they use them to work lies.
The above misconstructions of “create” are a typical example. “There’s that word again!” the creo gleefully proclaims. As if the use of the word “create” magically confers truth upon their superstition.

I’m going to go ‘create’ a beautiful breakfast now, of eggs, potatoes and toast, none of which I can produce ex nihilo.

 

[Lion IRC]

It's a weird objection when atheists whine about God of the gaps.

What they are saying is God shouldn't be used as a placeholder explanation for stuff that can't otherwise be explained by the scientific method.

But these are the same atheists who say the only thing that would convince them God exists, is if...WAIT FOR IT....they experienced...

"something which couldnt be explained by the scientific method."

One could just as easily say that since RNA could be created without divine intervention then score one for the evolutionists.

Theres that word AGAIN
Created.

...not a win for evolutionists IMHO

If an asteroid hits the Earth, and the impact forms a crater, the crater is created.

Yes.

It doesn't mean someone personally created the crater.

Sure. It was the asteroid that created it.
So the question is, was the asteroid created deliberately or unintentionally.

Do you know how words work?

Words work just fine.

Created. Caused. Intentional. Deliberate. Spontaneous. Accidental. Agent. Mechanism...

Pretty basic stuff if you ask me. But there are some people around here who just can't seem to understand how these words work.

Also, rain can create slippery roads which can contribute to car accidents. I guess that's gawd's fault.

No. Most rational humans know that driving too fast on slippery roads is unsafe and that there's this enlightened concept called personal responsibility. Most humans have a rational inclination to avoid stupidity

Edited because I accidentally posted a draft.

Yes. Accidental. But at least we agree that someone did it. It wasn't a mysterious spooky event caused by nobody/nothing.

 

[steve_bank]

If you believe 'god did it' then that pretty much ends discussion.

That is the Christian 'theory of everything'.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

It's a weird objection when atheists whine about God of the gaps.

What they are saying is God shouldn't be used as a placeholder explanation for stuff that can't otherwise be explained by the scientific method.

But these are the same atheists who say the only thing that would convince them God exists, is if...WAIT FOR IT....they experienced...

"something which couldnt be explained by the scientific method."

One could just as easily say that since RNA could be created without divine intervention then score one for the evolutionists.

Theres that word AGAIN
Created.

...not a win for evolutionists IMHO

If an asteroid hits the Earth, and the impact forms a crater, the crater is created.

Yes.

It doesn't mean someone personally created the crater.

Sure. It was the asteroid that created it.
So the question is, was the asteroid created deliberately or unintentionally.

Behold, god's handiwork.

Actually the question is how you determine... an asteroid... is intelligently designed. So uh, how do you determine whether or not an asteroid was intelligently designed? "If it looks asteroidy enough, it's intelligently designed" I guess.

 

[ideologyhunter]

So uh, how do you determine whether or not an asteroid was intelligently designed?

Slam dunk. You use the Banana Doctrine. If it's just sooo obvious that it carries out its function perfectly, you get Ray Comfort or Kirk Cameron to do a video explaining how bananas = God. Or in this case, asteroids.
Once bananas = God, the rest is easy.
Bananas = Noah, Onan, Jonah, Joshua, David, Elijah, et al.
Bananas = Jesus
Bananas = heaven/hell
Who knew one piece of fruit had so many uses?
Don't even get me started on eyes = God.

 

[SIB]

An interesting article in the Washington Post adds momentum to the RNA world theory. Self-replicating RNA has been created in a lab. The copies made are quite similar to the original, which has apparently been a stumbling block to earlier efforts. We are inching forward to the creation of life in a test tube.

The only problem is that it was tuned. The test tube was set up. To be clear, I do not believe a god thing "made us".

 

[steve_bank]

If the bible god designed everything then from an engineering point if view either god is not a very good designer or our reality is exactly what an all knowing omniscient god who can see all ends intended it to be.

Asteroid strikes, birth defects, earthquakes.

 

[pood]

Sure. It was the asteroid that created it.
So the question is, was the asteroid created deliberately or unintentionally.

And you answer is … God created the asteroid? Which means he also created cancer, addictive substances, tsunamis that wipe out thousands, lethal viruses, the list goes on…

And then, too, of course, if you want to argue that God created EVERYTHING, it is futile to argue that he created certain SPECIFIC things, like life, just because life looks AS IF it were deliberately designed (it wasn’t, of course). If Santa in the Sky created everything, then everything is deliberately designed, whether it looks that way or not!

 

[ideologyhunter]

See, this is why I don't like science fiction. When you hit a snag, abracadabra your way out of it.

 

[Elixir]

See, this is why I don't like science fiction. When you hit a snag, abracadabra your way out of it.

If you start and end with “goddidit” (creospeak for “abracadabra”) there are no snags, prayzaload.

 

[Lion IRC]

Sure. It was the asteroid that created it.
So the question is, was the asteroid created deliberately or unintentionally.

And you answer is … God created the asteroid?

No. My question is... "was the asteroid created deliberately or unintentionally."

 

[steve_bank]

Sure. It was the asteroid that created it.
So the question is, was the asteroid created deliberately or unintentionally.

And you answer is … God created the asteroid?

No. My question is... "was the asteroid created deliberately or unintentionally."

Asteroids are remnants of the formation of the solar system. So, was the solar system created intentionally? If you believe that your god who is omniscient without bound created the umber se down to the finest detail, then god created asteroids. Everything that happens is part of gods cretion and plan, which I take as fundamental Christian belief.

For someone like me who aligns with naturalism, there is no intent to the universe. It just is. No meaning and no creator. An endless chai of events with no end and no beginning.