Moved Another step towards answering the question of life's origins - religion

[Tharmas]

An interesting article in the Washington Post adds momentum to the RNA world theory. Self-replicating RNA has been created in a lab. The copies made are quite similar to the original, which has apparently been a stumbling block to earlier efforts. We are inching forward to the creation of life in a test tube.

 

[Lion IRC]

Created.
Great.
Another win for Team Creationists

 

[Elixir]

Created.
Great.
Another win for Team Creationists

Closer my god to thee?


Actually… no.

 

[Lion IRC]

Maybe I'd better read the article to see if it actually does say "creation"..."create"..."created"

 

[bilby]

Maybe I'd better read the article to see if it actually does say "creation"..."create"..."created"

Maybe you'd better think, to determine whether that would be in any way relevant to anything.

But I shalln't be holding my breath.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Created.
Great.
Another win for Team Creationists

So, if a naturally occurring process can be recreated in a lab that process cannot have naturally arisen? Would that hold for all natural phenomena?

 

[Lion IRC]

There's that word again.
reCREATE

Of course we, as agents, can imitate a process which involves agency.

 

[bilby]

Created.
Great.
Another win for Team Creationists

So, if a naturally occurring process can be recreated in a lab that process cannot have naturally arisen? Would that hold for all natural phenomena?

I don't think that's what he's saying.

I think he is saying that if we recreate a thing that God did, then the way we did it in the lab must be the exact way that God did it, because God is exactly as weak and pathetic as we are.

Of course, this is both circular logic and blasphemy; But I don't think he's even slightly concerned about either, because he has scored a weak rhetorical point, which is a certain path to forgiveness and probably sainthood.

 

[Lion IRC]

You left out a reference to God of the gaps bilby.

 

[pood]

Created.
Great.
Another win for Team Creationists

Are you saying that if we recreate in the lab a fully natural process, it follows that the fully natural process must have been … supernatural?

 

[TomC]

Created.
Great.
Another win for Team Creationists

Are you saying that if we recreate in the lab a fully natural process, it follows that the fully natural process must have been … supernatural?

No, it means that there is a team of biologists who are a ton smarter than his god.
They accomplished the same thing and didn't need a few billion years to do it.
Tom

 

[pood]

Well, to be charitable to God, it took him “only” about 500 million years to figure out how to poof life into existence out of nothing after the earth formed. However, the point stands — modern humans have only been around for 200,000 years or so.

Then, of course, since the observable universe appeared some 13 or 14 billion years ago, it took God some ten billion or so years to make earth.

I keep thinking of Behe and his flagellum. Evolution is working out OK but wait! There’s a limit to evolution. The microscopic little buggers can’t get about very well, so Jesus labors and toils and sweats in his workshop for a few million yeas until he comes up with a passable mechanical propeller to stick on their asses.

 

[abaddon]

There's that word again.
reCREATE

Of course we, as agents, can imitate a process which involves agency.

Imitation is why God was described as a creator. Humans were deemed to be creators first. Then when a myth was made with a human-like god in it, the human trait of intentional creativity was assigned to that character. The character is a creator god because it's made in the image of humans.

You want to reverse that and treat your mythology like it's prior to figures of speech. It's the other way around... your mythology reflects the figures of speech that some languages are comprised of.

 

[TomC]

Imitation is why God was described as a creator.

Exactly.
Humans have been recreating God in their own image for nearly all of history.

The modern omnimax benevolent God is quite a new and imperfect creation.
Tom

 

[EricH]

There's that word again.
reCREATE

Of course we, as agents, can imitate a process which involves agency.

Medical researchers can stimulate the growth of cancerous cells in healthy laboratory animals in order to study the process. Does that mean God designed cancer and goes about inflicting cancer on millions of humans every year? And you say you worship this sadistic creature?

 

[Lion IRC]

It's a weird objection when atheists whine about God of the gaps.

What they are saying is God shouldn't be used as a placeholder explanation for stuff that can't otherwise be explained by the scientific method.

But these are the same atheists who say the only thing that would convince them God exists, is if...WAIT FOR IT....they experienced...

"something which couldnt be explained by the scientific method."

One could just as easily say that since RNA could be created without divine intervention then score one for the evolutionists.

Theres that word AGAIN
Created.

...not a win for evolutionists IMHO

 

[Shadowy Man]

Theres that word AGAIN
Created.

...not a win for evolutionists IMHO

It’s an English word. And like other words it can have multiple meanings that depend on the context.

Sorry, your logic is such a non sequitur I am finding it difficult to follow what you’re actually trying to say.

 

[bilby]

It's a weird objection when atheists whine about God of the gaps.

But hardly as weird as a theist whining about atheists whining about it, when no atheist even mentioned it, despite theist prompting. And then using the topic nobody else mentioned as an "excuse" to introduce a blatant straw-man argument.

But these are the same atheists who say the only thing that would convince them God exists, is if...WAIT FOR IT....they experienced...

"something which couldnt be explained by the scientific method."

The only thing that would convince a rational person of anything is evidence for that thing.

If you want to convince me that God exists, just supply evidence that God exists.

If you believe that this requires "something which couldnt be explained by the scientific method", then you may be right - that would certainly be a requirement if God does not exist. But if God does exist, simply providing evidence of that existence would suffice.

Nobody cares that you are butt-hurt over being asked for actual support for your claims.

And the only person who said the text in quote marks is you - despite your dishonest use of those quote marks, to imply that you were addressing a man not made from straw.

 

[pood]

It's a weird objection when atheists whine about God of the gaps.

What they are saying is God shouldn't be used as a placeholder explanation for stuff that can't otherwise be explained by the scientific method.

Ahem. Can’t CURRENTLY be explained by science. The relevance of God of the Gaps is over the millenniums practically EVERYTHING was “explained “ by a god or gods, yet over time the real explanations proved to be naturalistic, unless, of course, you think that thunder and lightning are caused by Thor hammering on clouds.

But these are the same atheists who say the only thing that would convince them God exists, is if...WAIT FOR IT....they experienced...

"something which couldnt be explained by the scientific method."

Which atheists say that?

There’s probably a lot of mysteries that science will never unravel. God does not follow from that.

One could just as easily say that since RNA could be created without divine intervention then score one for the evolutionists.

Theres that word AGAIN
Created.

...not a win for evolutionists IMHO

Guess you missed the point. If RNA can be created without divine intervention, what need for the divine?

 

[bilby]

Theres that word AGAIN
Created.

...not a win for evolutionists IMHO

It’s an English word. And like other words it can have multiple meanings that depend on the context.

Sorry, your logic is such a non sequitur I am finding it difficult to follow what you’re actually trying to say.

He's trying to say that his opinion is humble, and also that he knows stuff nobody else here knows, and is personally blessed by the gods as a consequence. The humility just drips from his every word...