Antifa may be in for a surprise

[whichphilosophy]

Is there really direct evidence that Antifa has influenced people to kill police officers?

I thought Antifa was descriptor of loosely knit but geographically separate groups of people instead of an actual organization. If my view is accurate, this is basically an attempt to intimidate free speech in the noble attempt to reduce violence.

Disegarding people's rights to go to work because traffic is blocked. Seeking to shut down speeches and assaults doesn't sound like the spirit of free speech. How can they be loosely knit if they run organised campaigns with predetermined goals.

Their attempt is to eradicate free speech through threats and sometimes violence.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Is there some sort of guide I could read that would tell me when a rogue nutjob can be said to represent a whole group and when a rogue nutjob is nothing more than a rogue nutjob?

Is there a difference between advocating for universal health insurance and advocating for the inherent rights of the white race?

Might one more readily lead to violence?

Why, it might even cause someone to shoot up a baseball game.

 

[Opoponax]

So the Nazis and KKKers are not terrorists but antifa is.

Fucking RIGHT???

 

[whichphilosophy]

So the Nazis and KKKers are not terrorists but antifa is.

Fucking RIGHT???

They are simply elements on the 'right' and 'left' who use each other to market their damaged goods. Both have shown they are as bad as each other.

Obstructing traffic seems to be backfiring where motorists are just more interested at that point in time to go to work or return from work. Why should working Americans even if they share the same views give a rat's bottom at this point?

 

[Arctish]

Fucking RIGHT???

They are simply elements on the 'right' and 'left' who use each other to market their damaged goods. Both have shown they are as bad as each other.

Obstructing traffic seems to be backfiring where motorists are just more interested at that point in time to go to work or return from work. Why should working Americans even if they share the same views give a rat's bottom at this point?

So, obstructing traffic is just as bad as running people over with your car? Making people late for work is just as bad as killing them?

 

[whichphilosophy]

No
Imprisoning a person in their own car could be once perception.
Running over a person would be a serious offence but as a defence the attacker may cite fear of danger. The court would decide whether this was correct or not or the driver himself was it battery (using harmful force against another causing harm).

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Both have shown they are as bad as each other.

Antifa is for stopping Nazis and even to use violence to do it such as self-defense and in my opinion they are too pre-emptive with the self-defense. Nazis want to exterminate Blacks and Jews, will do so behind the scenes when no one is watching, and will try to promote overthrow of the current egalitarian system of government whether through voting or revolution to see that their ends are met.

 

[untermensche]

Noam Chomsky: ‘Antifa is Wrong in Principle — a Major Gift to the Militant Right’

“As for Antifa, it’s a minuscule fringe of the Left, just as its predecessors were. It’s a major gift to the right, including the militant right, who are exuberant,”

“what they do is often wrong in principle – like blocking talks – and [the movement] is generally self-destructive.”

“When confrontation shifts to the arena of violence, it’s the toughest and most brutal who win – and we know who that is,”

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/chomsky-antifa-gift-militant-right/

Just so people know what a leading thinker on the left thinks about these people.

 

[Elixir]

So, obstructing traffic is just as bad as running people over with your car? Making people late for work is just as bad as killing them?

Of course it is. You don't work, you can't eat. You don't eat, you can't work.
So you die.

 

[dismal]

Regardless of whether they are "terrorists", their "punch a Nazi" campaign seems to pretty clearly meet the current "progressive" standard for incitement of violence.

So are you in favor of pursuing terrorism charges against anyone who recommends punching Nazis, or only if they are found to be carrying a currently valid Antifa Membership Card?

...if you just punch a neo-nazi that does not automatically make you a member of antifa.

Are you SURE?

Somehow you seemed to imagined I called them "terrorists" and missed the words "progressive standards" in there. This sorta ruins any coherent value your post might have.

But: I'm not generally in favor of locking people up for speech. It's progressives who are always wanting to lock someone up for inciting violence.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Both havee shown they are as bad as each other.

Antifa is for stopping Nazis and even to use violence to do it such as self-defense and in my opinion they are too pre-emptive with the self-defense. Nazis want to exterminate Blacks and Jews, will do so behind the scenes when no one is watching, and will try to promote overthrow of the current egalitarian system of government whether through voting or revolution to see that their ends are met.

This is true. In resisting what it does not like, ANTIFA has in effect become like the Nazism it seeks to remove. In fact they go after anyone they deem fascist or Nazi. ANTIFA has no interest in a Liberal democracy and I am sure most Democrats would tell them "Stay off my side."

 

[dismal]

I am sure most Democrats would tell them "Stay off my side."

Well, you'd think. But in my experience a large number of "progressives" lack the ability to detect when their fellow leftists are engaged in behavior that causes normal people to think they are assholes.

This explains the existence of, among other things: freeway protests, Nancy Pelosi, most every thread here, youtube videos where someone is shrieking at some white stoner kid with dreadlocks about cultural appropriation, and Keith Olberman.

 

[ronburgundy]

Both have shown they are as bad as each other.

Antifa is for stopping Nazis and even to use violence to do it such as self-defense and in my opinion they are too pre-emptive with the self-defense. Nazis want to exterminate Blacks and Jews, will do so behind the scenes when no one is watching, and will try to promote overthrow of the current egalitarian system of government whether through voting or revolution to see that their ends are met.

While whichphilosophy's equivalence is fallacious, your whitewashing of Antifa doesn't make for a sound rebuttal.
First off "pre-emptive with the self-defense" = criminal assault. Second, Antifa is not only about stopping Nazi's but about stopping the personal liberties of anyone they have a political or philosophical disagreement with, and violating the rights of anyone else that gets in their way of doing so, or just as a stunt to draw attention to themselves.
They are ignorant, violent pieces of shit whose values are antithetical to human rights, civil rights, personal liberty, and everything else that actual liberals have been fighting for.

Despite that and despite it being critical that they are exposed as such and strongly disavowed by real liberals and the Democratic party, they still are not remotely as bad as the white supremacists.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Antifa is for stopping Nazis and even to use violence to do it such as self-defense and in my opinion they are too pre-emptive with the self-defense. Nazis want to exterminate Blacks and Jews, will do so behind the scenes when no one is watching, and will try to promote overthrow of the current egalitarian system of government whether through voting or revolution to see that their ends are met.

While whichphilosophy's equivalence is fallacious, your whitewashing of Antifa doesn't make for a sound rebuttal.
First off "pre-emptive with the self-defense" = criminal assault.

I agree.

Second, Antifa is not only about stopping Nazi's but about stopping the personal liberties of anyone they have a political or philosophical disagreement with, and violating the rights of anyone else that gets in their way of doing so, or just as a stunt to draw attention to themselves.
They are ignorant, violent pieces of shit whose values are antithetical to human rights, civil rights, personal liberty, and everything else that actual liberals have been fighting for.

...and this was something I wondered that they could be, too, until I became more educated within the last few days about their various oppositions to alt-right was because alt-right has been the movement for the Nazis.

Despite that and despite it being critical that they are exposed as such and strongly disavowed by real liberals and the Democratic party, they still are not remotely as bad as the white supremacists.

I agree.

 

[fromderinside]

I am sure most Democrats would tell them "Stay off my side."

Well, you'd think. But in my experience a large number of "progressives" lack the ability to detect when their fellow leftists are engaged in behavior that causes normal people to think they are assholes.

This explains the existence of, among other things: freeway protests, Nancy Pelosi, most every thread here, youtube videos where someone is shrieking at some white stoner kid with dreadlocks about cultural appropriation, and Keith Olberman.

Find personal experience then covert it to an overly broad tarring brush. Who else does that? Nazis? White Racists? PlumpOrangeTUS? dismal?

 

[RavenSky]

For what it is worth:

Fake ‘antifa’ campaign telling people to ‘punch white women’ is a 4chan hoax

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/fake-antifa-punch-women-4chan-hoax/

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/04/timeline-anti-fascists-nazi-punching/

Long before the New York Times wondered, “Is it O.K. to punch a Nazi?,” far-right extremists were confronted by militant anti-fascists. These groups’ roots go back before World War II, when radicals battled nascent fascists and Nazis in the streets of Europe. The rise of violent white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups in the 1980s sparked the American “antifa” (anti-fascist) movement. Street squads like Anti-Racist Action and Fuck Shit Up took a nod from their European predecessors and responded with their own brand of extremism. Here’s a timeline of the American anti-fascist movement...

Interesting timeline. What really jumps out at me is that for every act of violence that can be directly attributed to an antifa militant, there are many times that number perpetrated fuck the fucking neo-nazi/KKK/white-supremacist groups - and that is only counting what the racist fascists are doing to the antifa group. It doesn't include the violence they do to innocent people like DeAndre Harris and Heather Heyer.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Antifa is for stopping Nazis and even to use violence to do it such as self-defense and in my opinion they are too pre-emptive with the self-defense. Nazis want to exterminate Blacks and Jews, will do so behind the scenes when no one is watching, and will try to promote overthrow of the current egalitarian system of government whether through voting or revolution to see that their ends are met.

While whichphilosophy's equivalence is fallacious, your whitewashing of Antifa doesn't make for a sound rebuttal.
First off "pre-emptive with the self-defense" = criminal assault. Second, Antifa is not only about stopping Nazi's but about stopping the personal liberties of anyone they have a political or philosophical disagreement with, and violating the rights of anyone else that gets in their way of doing so, or just as a stunt to draw attention to themselves.
They are ignorant, violent pieces of shit whose values are antithetical to human rights, civil rights, personal liberty, and everything else that actual liberals have been fighting for.

Despite that and despite it being critical that they are exposed as such and strongly disavowed by real liberals and the Democratic party, they still are not remotely as bad as the white supremacists.

Even if one is not as bad as the other there is sufficient asininity in their speeches and actions to compliment each other. I also mentioned that Democrats would tell ANTIFA members to stay their (the Democrats' side).

 

[RavenSky]

“As for Antifa, it’s a minuscule fringe of the Left, just as its predecessors were. It’s a major gift to the right, including the militant right, who are exuberant,”

“what they do is often wrong in principle – like blocking talks – and [the movement] is generally self-destructive.”

“When confrontation shifts to the arena of violence, it’s the toughest and most brutal who win – and we know who that is,”

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/chomsky-antifa-gift-militant-right/

Just so people know what a leading thinker on the left thinks about these people.

And I would tend to agree with him.

I do, however, object to this bullshit Moore-Coulter comparison between them and the fucking Nazis and KKK; and I object to the lies being told about them. We need to judge them on what they actually do, not stupid shit the racist fascists make up.

Not suggesting you are doing this, but that is what I am seeing on this thread and in social media

 

[ronburgundy]

Second, Antifa is not only about stopping Nazi's but about stopping the personal liberties of anyone they have a political or philosophical disagreement with, and violating the rights of anyone else that gets in their way of doing so, or just as a stunt to draw attention to themselves.
They are ignorant, violent pieces of shit whose values are antithetical to human rights, civil rights, personal liberty, and everything else that actual liberals have been fighting for.

...and this was something I wondered that they could be, too, until I became more educated within the last few days about their various oppositions to alt-right was because alt-right has been the movement for the Nazis.

They are not mutually exclusive. Antifa's opposition to Nazi's and their opposition to that alt-right don't justify any of their actions or erase the fact that they are also anti-antithetical to human liberty and liberal values. Stalin was also against the Nazi's and yet was the antipathy of what any reasonable moral person would favor and value.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

...and this was something I wondered that they could be, too, until I became more educated within the last few days about their various oppositions to alt-right was because alt-right has been the movement for the Nazis.

They are not mutually exclusive. Antifa's opposition to Nazi's and their opposition to that alt-right don't justify any of their actions or erase the fact that they are also anti-antithetical to human liberty and liberal values. Stalin was also against the Nazi's and yet was the antipathy of what any reasonable moral person would favor and value.

Antifa are not Stalinists.