Arab secularist vs fundamentalist argue on TV

[Underseer]

First of all, the secularist destroys the other guy's position, which is a pleasure to watch.

Secondly, the arguments of the fundamentalist are uncomfortably familiar to anyone who has ever argued with a Christian fundamentalist.

Lastly, it's good to see that ISIS has prompted some real debate in the Middle East.

 

[RavenSky]

At the minimum, I was glad to see that all of them disavowed ISIS, and I think we need to save this video for those threads wherein certain people equate all Islam with ISIS and all Muslims with ISIS.

Overall, though, I really liked seeing the secular argument in this setting. And yes, I agree - it was very interesting how the moderate Islamic arguments parallel the typical Christian ones.

 

[Underseer]

At the minimum, I was glad to see that all of them disavowed ISIS, and I think we need to save this video for those threads wherein certain people equate all Islam with ISIS and all Muslims with ISIS.

Overall, though, I really liked seeing the secular argument in this setting. And yes, I agree - it was very interesting how the moderate Islamic arguments parallel the typical Christian ones.

I was thinking more about the parallels between the fundamentalist Muslim's arguments and the arguments of Christian fundamentalists.

 

[whichphilosophy]

At the minimum, I was glad to see that all of them disavowed ISIS, and I think we need to save this video for those threads wherein certain people equate all Islam with ISIS and all Muslims with ISIS.

Overall, though, I really liked seeing the secular argument in this setting. And yes, I agree - it was very interesting how the moderate Islamic arguments parallel the typical Christian ones.

The problem is the US and its allies destroyed secular countries like Iraq and Libya and almost did the same to Syria. They were bad on human rights but at least they were moving in the right direction.

ISIS has killed far more Muslims in the Arab world than it has killed Westerners.

The Arabs are fun to work with (UAE, Qatar etc with most are on contract from Egypt Syria, Jordan and Palestine). They always get excited during discussions, even for small issues.

 

[Syed]

Arab secularist vs fundamentalist argue on TV argue on TV

its does not matter they are arab secularist or fundamentalist, your problem is they are non white

do you think if they all become secularist your problem end?

didnt you killed saddam hussain your secularist buddy?

 

[abaddon]

do you think if they all become secularist your problem end?

Syed,

Listen to just 20 seconds of this part of the video: https://youtu.be/4xEH43Dmm4I?t=91

In the space of 20 seconds, three very important questions are asked:

The Muslims in America, in Britain, in France, in Canada, and in China - how come they do not slaughter one another?

Why is it that only here, the Muslims massacre one another?

Why do the Muslims dream of emigrating to the infidel countries?


Nowhere in the video do these men complain about the west. And that is not to say the west has not been a problem for Muslim countries. But that is not the concern here among the men in the video. Even for them that is a different discussion.

So, Syed, sticking strictly to the matter of this thread and the matter that the men in the video are discussing, and nothing else, what is the answer to those three questions?

 

[Syed]

your problem is NON white people NOT islam or muslims

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Arab secularist vs fundamentalist argue on TV argue on TV

its does not matter they are arab secularist or fundamentalist, your problem is they are non white

do you think if they all become secularist your problem end?

didnt you killed saddam hussain your secularist buddy?

your problem is NON white people NOT islam or muslims

And your problem, Syed, is that you're too busy whining "racism!" to address the very pertinent questions posed by the non-white secularist in the video. Or any other questions, come to think of it.

 

[funinspace]

I'm confused...I saw 2 white guys debating stuff, though one was kind of odd for wearing a table cloth on his head... But hey, I guess its no stranger than some other odd people wearing boxes on their head...or maybe no stranger than wearing WWOD on your shirt.

 

[Thomas II]

First of all, the secularist destroys the other guy's position, which is a pleasure to watch.

Secondly, the arguments of the fundamentalist are uncomfortably familiar to anyone who has ever argued with a Christian fundamentalist.

Lastly, it's good to see that ISIS has prompted some real debate in the Middle East.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Shadowy Man]

I thought the most interesting part is when he said that the extremists buy in to the concept of the afterlife being so great while being so denied of any pleasures in this life that they have nothing to lose by going to war or blowing themselves up. To me, that exemplifies how religion is used as a political tool, to brainwash people into being the fodder for their leaders' goals.

It's very rare for us to see these kinds of discussions going on in the Middle East and I think you for posting it. I hope that the rational side can ultimately be more persuasive in those cultures. As the other guy points out, Muslims are not slaughtering each other in other parts of the world, exemplifying how at the heart of it fundamentalism is a movement that seems to only be able to take hold under certain cultural conditions.

 

[Underseer]

Arab secularist vs fundamentalist argue on TV argue on TV

its does not matter they are arab secularist or fundamentalist, your problem is they are non white

do you think if they all become secularist your problem end?

didnt you killed saddam hussain your secularist buddy?

That is definitely not my problem.

Have you not noticed that I frequently call out white people for their racism? Not only that, but I have consistently called out others on this forum for anti-Muslim bias by westerners against Muslims living in the West.

Sorry, but you are simply trying to change the subject away from the content of the video.

 

[RavenSky]

Arab secularist vs fundamentalist argue on TV argue on TV

its does not matter they are arab secularist or fundamentalist, your problem is they are non white

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzttttttt... Wrong.

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your problem is NON white people NOT islam or muslims

repeating your incorrect claim will not make it correct.

========================================================

I thought the most interesting part is when he said that the extremists buy in to the concept of the afterlife being so great while being so denied of any pleasures in this life that they have nothing to lose by going to war or blowing themselves up. To me, that exemplifies how religion is used as a political tool, to brainwash people into being the fodder for their leaders' goals.

It's very rare for us to see these kinds of discussions going on in the Middle East and I think you for posting it. I hope that the rational side can ultimately be more persuasive in those cultures. As the other guy points out, Muslims are not slaughtering each other in other parts of the world, exemplifying how at the heart of it fundamentalism is a movement that seems to only be able to take hold under certain cultural conditions.

^^^ agree!

 

[DrZoidberg]

Lastly, it's good to see that ISIS has prompted some real debate in the Middle East.

Karen Armstrong, (in her Battle for God) made some astute observations. Just before Christianity died (got replaced by liberal religion in main-stream society) it got fundamentalist and extreme. In Christianity religious fundamentalism is evidence of a dying religion. She made a bunch of obviously true parallels to Islam.

It's not that ISIS came from nowhere and we now see the true face of Islam. The Islamic world has liberalized heavily the last 100 years or so. ISIS is a reaction to that. I think ISIS is a desperate last attempt to kill the debate. Because Islamists know that in any free open society they will lose.

....and just like Hegel pointed out. History is dialectical. If ISIS was a conservative reaction to Islamic liberalism, there will of course be a liberal reaction to ISIS. And so on and so on. But the result will inevitably be a liberal Islam. For purely sociological reasons. Most people just want to get on with life. Any practice that just adds work, with no obvious benefit, will over time get whittled down until it's gone.

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At the minimum, I was glad to see that all of them disavowed ISIS, and I think we need to save this video for those threads wherein certain people equate all Islam with ISIS and all Muslims with ISIS.

Overall, though, I really liked seeing the secular argument in this setting. And yes, I agree - it was very interesting how the moderate Islamic arguments parallel the typical Christian ones.

Lol. Whenever there's any kind of Islamist attack anywhere most Imams line up and condemn it. But the western media doesn't report it.

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do you think if they all become secularist your problem end?

didnt you killed saddam hussain your secularist buddy?

Syed, you're on fire. This is the second sensible post I've seen you make in just a few weeks. Well done!

 

[iolo]

The difficulty is that colonialism has forced the Arab world to identify with Islam the way it forced the Irish and the Poles to identify with Roman Catholicism, and in those circumstances politics follows the nonsense that has appeal, like the not-very-religious leaders of the Easter Rising managing to identify themselves with the Crucifixion, and, often, 'radical' persons adopt the most extreme religious position. Freethinkers are usually identified with the enemy, and it will take a generation of two beyond the defeat of the colonialists to get shot of the religious nonsense, I'm afraid. I don't know much about Poland, but I watch the Irish breaking free with very considerable pleasure.