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Are people already regretting their choice?

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution
Trump got 77,302,580 votes in 2024. The US Population in 2024 was about 340,100,000, so less than a quarter of the population voted for Trump (22.7%).

The population of eligible voters is about 234,000,000; So about a third of the eligible population voted for Trump.

My superior solution is compulsory voting. We have had it here since 1924, and it ensures that everyone, and not only the extremists, gets counted.

You should definitely try it.

Dump the electoral college, so that every vote is equal in value.

Add in Instant Runoff Voting to ensure that those who vote for a third party candidate don't get ignored.

You might end up with something approaching the people's choice of President winning office.

We are a constitutiinal republic not a democracy. I really wish everyone would remember that so we don't break up.

If we wanted a better representation, states could always do what my state does (or Maine) and apportion electoral votes by congressional districts. But the lefties of CA, NY, and IL don't want to do that any more than any red state does. They could lead the way but want their blue blocks as much as any red block gerrymandering.
This false claim that USA is "a Constitutional republic, not a democracy" has been made many times in the past, including by Ayn Rand.
France, Germany, and many others are both CRs and democracies. UK, Canada, Australia, and others are Constitutional monarchies and democracies. There is no disconnect between being a republic and a democracy.
Of course, currently USA is not behaving like either a CR or a democracy.
 
The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.
I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear. And if other Democrats really believe this perhaps they should communicate this more often.

IMHO the winning strategy for the Democrats should be this:
Communicate more of what you have just written. Communicate how and why wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere and your plan to bring wealth distribution more even. Communicate how and why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all now. Then communicate your solution for America, what other kind of GOOD high paying jobs you plan for the uneducated people who used to have good lives centered around manufacturing. Communicate why the deficits are no big deal and where you expect the hockey stick of deficits. Where you expect the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us.

IMHO the losing strategy for the Democrats is this:
Communicating how Trump is a big loser and everything he does is wrong. Communicate how dumb his constituents were and still are for voting for him. Communicate to half the population that they are so intellectually lost with their fake right media and that they are too dumb not to know their own economic lives have declined. Another words....what the Democrats have been doing!
It doesn't matter because it never came down to facts in the first place.

MAGA offered you an illusion. An illusion that you apparently still believe despite the abomination we are seeing in Washington.
 
Many of my Muslim friends who voted for Trump have since expressed regret—specifically over the ongoing Israeli-Gaza war. They had genuinely believed he might bring about peace and push for a two-state solution, rather than maintaining the status quo they expected from someone like Kamala Harris. That hope, in hindsight, feels misplaced.
Why did they even think he would try to make a two state solution? What has he ever said that would even suggest this?!

The Felon is clearly on the side of Israel taking a more forceful position. I think he envisions peace due to superior firepower, certainly not peace through talks. (Not that either is actually feasible. Iran will not accept peace and they are throwing enough money at it that they can ensure there will not be peace. Doesn't matter what anyone else wants.)
 
You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad, rvonse is stupid, etc. That will not convince anyone but yourself or others who already share your opinion.

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution (better than tariffs and/or other taxation) you believe would fix our obvious problems.
The problem is you are still assuming the issues are real. The Felon is offering to protect you from the bogeyman.

For what its worth, I don't know if Trump's tariffs are going to work either. But I also do not know of anything proposed that would work better to recover our lost manufacturing infrastructure.
We know they won't work.
I have heard many times where I work my boss saying they wish their management would just make a decision already. And that at least a bad decision would be better than no decision. And now I can see what they mean when they say that. The Democrats don't do anything but rip on the other side with no solution of their own.
There are times inaction is worse than any of the proposed courses of action. But that's not the situation here.
 
RVonse has made it clear that Trump's racism, misogyny, criminality and blatant ignorance have no interest for him. The obvious fascism -- Trump's thugs are arresting judges, legislators are sent death threats, etc. -- are irrelevant to RVonse. Economics is the only issue of importance (although, like Trump, RVonse cannot quite decide if he wants a weak dollar or a strong dollar).

Fine, I thought, Trump's economic program is laughed at by all serious economists. Perhaps focus on that will wake RVonse up.

But he has said in so many words that 4 years of economic grief will NOT prove Trump wrong: It may take five years or more for tariffs to work their magic. I am reminded of the old Five Year plans of the Soviet Union. But even they were supposed to prove their worth before the five years were up.

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.
I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear. And if other Democrats really believe this perhaps they should communicate this more often.

IMHO the winning strategy for the Democrats should be this:
Communicate more of what you have just written. Communicate how and why wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere and your plan to bring wealth distribution more even. Communicate how and why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all now. Then communicate your solution for America, what other kind of GOOD high paying jobs you plan for the uneducated people who used to have good lives centered around manufacturing. Communicate why the deficits are no big deal and where you expect the hockey stick of deficits. Where you expect the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us.

IMHO the losing strategy for the Democrats is this:
Communicating how Trump is a big loser and everything he does is wrong. Communicate how dumb his constituents were and still are for voting for him. Communicate to half the population that they are so intellectually lost with their fake right media and that they are too dumb not to know their own economic lives have declined. Another words....what the Democrats have been doing!
That is a remarkably passive aggressive post.

I don't think I've ever uttered the word "passive-aggressive" in my life, but RVonse's whining whinge might be framed as a paradigm.

Or not? Isn't "passive aggression" usually subtle? RVonse's whinge is blatantly in-your-face and has a bitter tone, much like his Messiah's whinges.

Guess when Trump is telling Americans to 'suck it up and deal with the shortages that are coming', when the economy contracts solely on his economic policies because of the grave uncertainty he is causing, and the employment hiring slow downs that are going to be announced because the economy is expected to actually slow down (and not merely technically with the GDP shrinkage), makes it harder to outwardly support Trump's economic policies.

That when all the shit we warned you about is coming to pass... you must really need to lay on the obfuscation to hold onto the truckload of bullshit you were sold, and told was gold.
Am I right that in the past RVonse has allied himself with fiscal conservatism and the Austrian school of economics? Trump on the other hand doesn't confirm to any school, and will soon be pushing for lower interest rates while inflation and federal deficits soar. Will that wake up our obstinate Trumpist? My money's on NO.

- - - - - - - - - - -

During a recent interview Trump insisted several times that the "M S 1 3" attached in the image below were part of the actual tattoo. (A discerning glance convinces that the letters are superimposed text, not even photo-shopped to deceive.) The interviewer, from MSNBC as I recall, kept trying to change the subject to avoid embarrassing POTUS, but Trump doubled-down and tripled-down. How can ANYONE with a 100+ IQ admire this buffoon?
You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad, rvonse is stupid, etc. That will not convince anyone but yourself or others who already share your opinion.

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution (better than tariffs and/or other taxation) you believe would fix our obvious problems.

For what its worth, I don't know if Trump's tariffs are going to work either. But I also do not know of anything proposed that would work better to recover our lost manufacturing infrastructure.

I have heard many times where I work my boss saying they wish their management would just make a decision already. And that at least a bad decision would be better than no decision. And now I can see what they mean when they say that. The Democrats don't do anything but rip on the other side with no solution of their own.
The bolded part is typical of your disassociation from reality. Firstly, you are ignoring everyone not of voting age (or otherwise ineligible to vote); well the Republicans don't care for them either. Secondly, of the portion of the population that is eligible to vote, which only makes up 77.65 % of the population. Details follow:

Total population 2024 = 341 million. VAP = 77.65 % = 264.8 million. Actually voted = 152.3 million = 44.66 % of total population.
Donald Trump =77.3 million votes = 50.75 % of total votes = 29.2 % of eligible voters = 22.66 % of total population.
Kamala Harris = 75 million votes = 49.25 % of total votes = 28.3 % of VAP = 22 % of total population.
Did not vote = 112.5 million = 42.5 % of VAP = 33% of total population.

So, half the population did not vote for Trump, nor did half of the VAP.
Half did not vote for Harris either.

 
The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution
Trump got 77,302,580 votes in 2024. The US Population in 2024 was about 340,100,000, so less than a quarter of the population voted for Trump (22.7%).

The population of eligible voters is about 234,000,000; So about a third of the eligible population voted for Trump.

My superior solution is compulsory voting. We have had it here since 1924, and it ensures that everyone, and not only the extremists, gets counted.

You should definitely try it.

Dump the electoral college, so that every vote is equal in value.

Add in Instant Runoff Voting to ensure that those who vote for a third party candidate don't get ignored.

You might end up with something approaching the people's choice of President winning office.
Having just run a polling station at the Aussie election I am glad we have compulsory getting your name ticked off the electoral roll (Bilby was not quite correct).
Add the Instant run off to the mix and it bakes a pretty fine cake.
 

You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad, rvonse is stupid, etc. That will not convince anyone but yourself or others who already share your opinion.

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution (better than tariffs and/or other taxation) you believe would fix our obvious problems.
The problem is you are still assuming the issues are real. The Felon is offering to protect you from the bogeyman.

My conclusions may be wrong but the problems are not. These problems are known not by watching Fox news but by real life experience.

I know from first hand experience you could buy a coke for a dime and gas for 35 cents a gallon. I've done this. I know from first hand experience a middle class tax payer could simply use the IRS table that goes to $100k without any difficulty. Now the government pretends anyone making over 100k is extremely wealthy. I know from first hand experience all the manufacturing plants I have seen shut down. And all the once prosperous workers no longer employed.

The Democrats may choose to ignore these problems and lose more elections. But I believe the winning strategy for them is to acknowledge these issues and provide their own superior solutions
 
The bolded part is typical of your disassociation from reality. Firstly, you are ignoring everyone not of voting age (or otherwise ineligible to vote); well the Republicans don't care for them either. Secondly, of the portion of the population that is eligible to vote, which only makes up 77.65 % of the population. Details follow:

Total population 2024 = 341 million. VAP = 77.65 % = 264.8 million. Actually voted = 152.3 million = 44.66 % of total population.
Donald Trump =77.3 million votes = 50.75 % of total votes = 29.2 % of eligible voters = 22.66 % of total population.
Kamala Harris = 75 million votes = 49.25 % of total votes = 28.3 % of VAP = 22 % of total population.
Did not vote = 112.5 million = 42.5 % of VAP = 33% of total population.

So, half the population did not vote for Trump, nor did half of the VAP.
Half did not vote for Harris either.
Technically, Harris didn't declare a solid mandate based on the results.
 
You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad, rvonse is stupid, etc. That will not convince anyone but yourself or others who already share your opinion.

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution (better than tariffs and/or other taxation) you believe would fix our obvious problems.
The problem is you are still assuming the issues are real. The Felon is offering to protect you from the bogeyman.
My conclusions may be wrong but the problems are not. These problems are known not by watching Fox news but by real life experience.

I know from first hand experience you could buy a coke for a dime and gas for 35 cents a gallon. I've done this. I know from first hand experience a middle class tax payer could simply use the IRS table that goes to $100k without any difficulty. Now the government pretends anyone making over 100k is extremely wealthy.
Where in your real life experience see the IRS consider $100k to be the dividing point of poor and extremely wealthy?
I know from first hand experience all the manufacturing plants I have seen shut down. And all the once prosperous workers no longer employed.
Prosperous?! Jebus fucking Kryste! Being able to make a living isn't what "prosperous" means.
The Democrats may choose to ignore these problems and lose more elections. But I believe the winning strategy for them is to acknowledge these issues and provide their own superior solutions
As a reminder, the GOP shipped the jobs overseas. You wanna see prosperous. Just wait until the shortages -> recession -> job losses... all to bring factories back to the US, that at best would be mostly automated and not staffed with many people.
 
The bolded part is typical of your disassociation from reality. Firstly, you are ignoring everyone not of voting age (or otherwise ineligible to vote); well the Republicans don't care for them either. Secondly, of the portion of the population that is eligible to vote, which only makes up 77.65 % of the population. Details follow:

Total population 2024 = 341 million. VAP = 77.65 % = 264.8 million. Actually voted = 152.3 million = 44.66 % of total population.
Donald Trump =77.3 million votes = 50.75 % of total votes = 29.2 % of eligible voters = 22.66 % of total population.
Kamala Harris = 75 million votes = 49.25 % of total votes = 28.3 % of VAP = 22 % of total population.
Did not vote = 112.5 million = 42.5 % of VAP = 33% of total population.

So, half the population did not vote for Trump, nor did half of the VAP.
Half did not vote for Harris either.
Technically, Harris didn't declare a solid mandate based on the results.

Too bad Bush's -margin and Trump's first term -margin are excluded

1736961041654.png
 

You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad, rvonse is stupid, etc. That will not convince anyone but yourself or others who already share your opinion.

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution (better than tariffs and/or other taxation) you believe would fix our obvious problems.
The problem is you are still assuming the issues are real. The Felon is offering to protect you from the bogeyman.

My conclusions may be wrong but the problems are not. These problems are known not by watching Fox news but by real life experience.

I know from first hand experience you could buy a coke for a dime and gas for 35 cents a gallon. I've done this. I know from first hand experience a middle class tax payer could simply use the IRS table that goes to $100k without any difficulty.
Yes, prices have risen since then. Of course, incomes have, on average, risen more. Would you prefer to have lower prices and substantially lower incomes?

Now the government pretends anyone making over 100k is extremely wealthy.
Nonsense.
I know from first hand experience all the manufacturing plants I have seen shut down. And all the once prosperous workers no longer employed.
Really? Every single one of them is involuntarily retired?
The Democrats may choose to ignore these problems and lose more elections. But I believe the winning strategy for them is to acknowledge these issues and provide their own superior solutions.
You want to return to the past. Which is not possible. You need to get over it.

The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (2021), the Chips and Science Act (2022), and the Inflation Reduction Act (2022) were Democratic efforts to increase employment in good paying jobs and to reduce the deficit. Those are superior solutions compared to pushing the economy into a recession, reducing competition, increasing inflation and hurting the retirement prospects of millions (the effects of Trump's "superior" solution).






 
You want to return to the past. Which is not possible. You need to get over it.

The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (2021), the Chips and Science Act (2022), and the Inflation Reduction Act (2022) were Democratic efforts to increase employment in good paying jobs and to reduce the deficit. Those are superior solutions compared to pushing the economy into a recession, reducing competition, increasing inflation and hurting the retirement prospects of millions (the effects of Trump's "superior" solution).

What do "increasing employment in good paying jobs and reducing the deficit" have to do with anything?
All those things are simply efforts re-distribute wealth that should be in the hands of responsible billionaires like "Chainsaw Musk".
Right, Vonse?
 
The Democrats may choose to ignore these problems and lose more elections. But I believe the winning strategy for them is to acknowledge these issues and provide their own superior solutions
The Dems were not ignoring problems. The Dems chose Not To Lie about having a solution, the way Rump, Repugs, and MAGAots did.
And some of the issues are just made-up problems.
Your idea of a winning strategy is to make-up problems and tell people what they want to hear.
Do you still believe Rump has ANY sane solutions?

I've heard the "Remodeling always creates a temporary mess" analogy.
Perhaps, but you don't kick everybody out onto the street, and tear down the whole house.
We can't all move into a hotel while DOGE tears down the country. And fires the building inspectors.
 
Yes, prices have risen since then. Of course, incomes have, on average, risen more. Would you prefer to have lower prices and substantially lower incomes?







Due to union busting efforts middle class incomes have NOT risen more than prices. Furthermore, incomes are always always lagging compared to price increases. Inflation helps the already wealthy by seriously increasing asset prices while reducing the middle class to poverty buying power.

Inflation is not the friend of the middle class
 
Due to union busting efforts middle class incomes have NOT risen more than prices. Furthermore, incomes are always always lagging compared to price increases. Inflation helps the already wealthy by seriously increasing asset prices while reducing the middle class to poverty buying power.

Inflation is not the friend of the middle class
Why do do you care? You worship billionaire oligarchs like Putin, Musk and Trump so why do you give a flying fuck about their lessers?
 
Yes, prices have risen since then. Of course, incomes have, on average, risen more. Would you prefer to have lower prices and substantially lower incomes?







Due to union busting efforts middle class incomes have NOT risen more than prices. Furthermore, incomes are always always lagging compared to price increases. Inflation helps the already wealthy by seriously increasing asset prices while reducing the middle class to poverty buying power.

Inflation is not the friend of the middle class
You are sadly misinformed. Incomes do not always lag behind prices. Real median household income has risen from about $60,000 in 1984 to about $80,000 in 2023.
 
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@RVonse -- Three points:

(1) I asked you to read the opinions of rational objective observers, or to watch videos by rational reporters to acquaint yourself with the absurdities Trump is subjecting the country to. It appears you have not done so. How can your opinions about Trump and his Presidency have any value at all when you deliberately blinder yourself?

(2) You are dreadfully confused about inflation. You appear to get some of your ideas from the fear-mongering nonsense on YouTube, mostly designed to help sell over-priced gold-plated medallions.

(2a) Price rises in the distant past are irrelevant to the present. "I know from first hand experience you could buy a coke for a dime and gas for 35 cents a gallon. I've done this." When you bought 15 gallons of gas for $5 -- when was this? Circa 1970? -- Did you say "Should I fill my tank or should I put this $5 bill under my mattress and spend it 55 years from now?" Of course not. You MIGHT have said "Instead of filling my tank I'll invest my money in a stock or fund in case I need money when I'm an old man." But investment returns normally keep pace with inflation. All else equal, a fund which returns 10% when inflation is 2% will return 12% when inflation is 4%. Did you really not even know this much? Can you cite any economist (other than a YouTube scamster) who touts scary 50-year old comparisons as you do?

(2b) Predicted inflation in the present is generally not a problem. The Fed sets a 2% inflation target; 2% is implicitly added to nominal interest rates. Wages and pensions typically have increases built in, either contractually or via automatic COLA adjustments. And so on.

There ARE disadvantages even to predicted inflation. And there are also advantages not mentioned above. These are all "2nd-order" effects; start a new thread if you REALLY want to educate yourself. For now, think of predicted inflation as a "lubricant." Note that many menus and contracts use fixed prices so 2% inflation actually maps to 2% DEFLATION in "REAL" prices.

Mention of DEFLATION points to the main reason the Fed deliberately targets a 2% inflation rate. The Fed cannot control inflation exactly, but a small positive target rate reduces the risk that the inflation rate will fall BELOW zero! I suppose YOU, RVonse, think deflation is good. With enough deflation you'll get your 10 cent can of Coke again. But in fact, deflation contributed to the Great Depression and many of the financial panics in the 19th century. Start a new thread if you're interested in educating yourself about this.

(2c) Past inflation is NOT and (SHOULD not be) undone in general. Once there has been a general price rise, it is difficult to undo the price increases. Briefly, such a decrease would be DEFLATION, not good. Contracts and debts which assume present prices would turn into traps.

Note that SPECIFIC price increases for SPECIFIC reasons can be reversed. Expect egg prices to plummet when America's chickens are healthy again.

(2d) Last I checked, the present "core inflation" number is 3.3%. This is not at all out-of-line for Biden's robust economy. The touts trying to scare you on FoxNews or Youtube are selling snake oil. Biden is not to blame for the price of eggs. Some of the price increases 4 or 5 years ago will not be reversed (see above).

There are some conspiracy theorists who believe the FedRes doctors its numbers to make inflation look less bad. Are you one of these, RVonse? Was the Moon landing faked? Was 9/11 an inside job?

I've invested some time to aid your understanding of inflation, RVonse. Has it done any good? Raise your hand please if you have even read this far.

(3) A tiny few of the "problems" you point out actually ARE real problems!! If you had a clue about basic economics you might even be able to contribute to useful discussion. To that end, let's address some more of your confusions:

My conclusions may be wrong but the problems are not. These problems are known not by watching Fox news but by real life experience.

I know from first hand experience you could buy a coke for a dime and gas for 35 cents a gallon. I've done this. I know from first hand experience a middle class tax payer could simply use the IRS table that goes to $100k without any difficulty. Now the government pretends anyone making over 100k is extremely wealthy.

You have told us you want to balance the budget. Income taxes are the obvious route to do so. Do you want to increase taxes on the poor, the middle or the rich? (Or do you want to lie to yourself and pretend that tariffs will raise more than income tax or that DOGE will find trillions in waste?)

The poor lack the money to help balance the budget, so you're left with taxing the middle or taxing the very rich. Which do you choose, RVonse? The Rs want to cut taxes on the VERY RICH and RAISE taxes on the middle (the $100k-$300k set). The Ds want the vice versa. Clear?

There are some simple changes that can be made that you and the Ds might agree on. As just one example, the SocSec tax falls to Zero after $130k of income -- the Super Rich pay no more into SocSec than the $130k earner you worry about. Do you prefer the D's stance or the R's stance on this issue?

I know from first hand experience all the manufacturing plants I have seen shut down. And all the once prosperous workers no longer employed.

Many of the jobs did NOT go to Latinos or Chinamen who don't look like us. They went to ROBOTS.

The Democrats may choose to ignore these problems and lose more elections. But I believe the winning strategy for them is to acknowledge these issues and provide their own superior solutions

Over and over and over you've been told about the CHIPS and Science Act and other recent "superior solutions" from the D's. Trump wants to CANCEL these programs. (Why? He's just a childish brat; he'll cancel them simply because they don't have his name on them.)

Can you imagine how frustrating this dialog is for us? We inform you over and over and over. You learn NOTHING. Zero.

Due to union busting efforts middle class incomes have NOT risen more than prices.

Which political party is most responsible for "Union busting"?
 
But the lefties of CA, NY, and IL don't want to do that any more than any red state does.
This is somewhere between ignorance and flat out lie.
Several blue states have enacted legislation on the subject. When enough states to constitute an EC majority agree, they will send EC delegates to vote for the presidential candidate who gets the most votes in the whole electorate. No constitutional amendment needed to make every presidential vote count equally.

I believe it would be a total game changer in the USA political landscape. But the Teaparty controls enough EC delegates to prevent that.
Tom
 
But the lefties of CA, NY, and IL don't want to do that any more than any red state does.
This is somewhere between ignorance and flat out lie.
Several blue states have enacted legislation on the subject. When enough states to constitute an EC majority agree, they will send EC delegates to vote for the presidential candidate who gets the most votes in the whole electorate. No constitutional amendment needed to make every presidential vote count equally.

I believe it would be a total game changer in the USA political landscape. But the Teaparty controls enough EC delegates to prevent that.
Tom
That makes votes count less not more. Any state that votes for the opposite candidate in the election has their votes changed to the "winning" candidate based on a previous pact and other state's vote count.

I don't see how that makes voting more fair by overwriting people's votes entirely after they vote.

The bluest and reddest states have ~30-35% that vote (or would vote) opposite. Proportoning votes by district gets much closer to representing those voters than taking their votes away completly and assigning EC based on another state's results.

For rxample, the blue dot here gave 1 EC vote to Obama and represented 30% of the state's total ECs. Harris almost got the same in 2024.

I do agree they should apportion ECs by state wide voting ratios rounded up and down to the neares wjole number. That kills gerrymandering in the presidential elections. It would get more voters involved (and 3rd parties) in states where minority parties are overwhelmed by one party or the other. Knowing you are going to lose before the election supresses voter turnout more than anything.

Our split system is also why we got both candidates here to speak during the last election. No way they stop in my state to campaign otherwise.
 
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