Are people already regretting their choice?

[laughing dog]

And yet you voted for him twice even though he has no track record of fiscal responsibility. During his first term, he worsened the US debt position. And he is on track this term to make it even worse with dramatically reduced revenues
and marginally reduced spending (a charitable interpretation). Really, you position is incoherent.

RVonse picks and chooses ideas and "facts" to match the narrative he derived from watching Jimmy Dore or gold-bug ads on YouTube. Although he picks and chooses sentence by sentence, as a metaphor I've picked and chosen letters from your post to spell out "Trump is a genius."

RVonse is not wrong to claim that mounting federal debt, and the high trade deficit are problems. (And IIRC both Paul Krugman and Warren Buffet have told us they regard the trade deficit as a bigger problem than the federal budget deficit.) He is smart enough to know that printing paper money -- "useful as money BECAUSE it is worthless" -- is not a panacea for mounting debt no matter how many zeroes you have on your printing press. (Was that your opinion in the recent sub-debate, laughing dog? All I remember is that you didn't know the difference between fiat money and bank-created money.)

Your cherry-picking is excellent depiction of the foundation of the supporters of Trumponomics .

What specific "cherry-picking" are you accusing me of?

You cherry picked letters in my post to illustrate RVonse’s methodology

Your memory is a bit faulty - bank money is a form of fiat money. Bank money is not gov't money but both are fiat money.

We're left to guess exactly what this semantic distinction signifies to you. BUT it appears that you and your "fiat money is limitless" debating ally have embraced some form of "Modern Monetary Theory." Although the precepts of MMT are not wholly wrong; it is NOT a mainstream view and espousing it here will surely confound our efforts to educate Mr. RVonse.

There is no need to continue your persistent mistaken impressions. I never claimed fiat money was limitless nor am I espousing it in any way shape or form. So please stop.

 

[RVonse]

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear. And if other Democrats really believe this perhaps they should communicate this more often.

IMHO the winning strategy for the Democrats should be this:
Communicate more of what you have just written. Communicate how and why wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere and your plan to bring wealth distribution more even. Communicate how and why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all now. Then communicate your solution for America, what other kind of GOOD high paying jobs you plan for the uneducated people who used to have good lives centered around manufacturing. Communicate why the deficits are no big deal and where you expect the hockey stick of deficits. Where you expect the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us.

IMHO the losing strategy for the Democrats is this:
Communicating how Trump is a big loser and everything he does is wrong. Communicate how dumb his constituents were and still are for voting for him. Communicate to half the population that they are so intellectually lost with their fake right media and that they are too dumb not to know their own economic lives have declined. Another words....what the Democrats have been doing!

 

[laughing dog]

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear.

I doubt those truths would calm much fear. Since the rest of post is sprinkled with fear mongering phrases such as “wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere” or “why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all” or
“the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us”.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear. And if other Democrats really believe this perhaps they should communicate this more often.

IMHO the winning strategy for the Democrats should be this:
Communicate more of what you have just written. Communicate how and why wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere and your plan to bring wealth distribution more even. Communicate how and why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all now. Then communicate your solution for America, what other kind of GOOD high paying jobs you plan for the uneducated people who used to have good lives centered around manufacturing. Communicate why the deficits are no big deal and where you expect the hockey stick of deficits. Where you expect the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us.

IMHO the losing strategy for the Democrats is this:
Communicating how Trump is a big loser and everything he does is wrong. Communicate how dumb his constituents were and still are for voting for him. Communicate to half the population that they are so intellectually lost with their fake right media and that they are too dumb not to know their own economic lives have declined. Another words....what the Democrats have been doing!

That is a remarkably passive aggressive post.

Guess when Trump is telling Americans to 'suck it up and deal with the shortages that are coming', when the economy contracts solely on his economic policies because of the grave uncertainty he is causing, and the employment hiring slow downs that are going to be announced because the economy is expected to actually slow down (and not merely technically with the GDP shrinkage), makes it harder to outwardly support Trump's economic policies.

That when all the shit we warned you about is coming to pass... you must really need to lay on the obfuscation to hold onto the truckload of bullshit you were sold, and told was gold.

 

[Swammerdami]

RVonse has made it clear that Trump's racism, misogyny, criminality and blatant ignorance have no interest for him. The obvious fascism -- Trump's thugs are arresting judges, legislators are sent death threats, etc. -- are irrelevant to RVonse. Economics is the only issue of importance (although, like Trump, RVonse cannot quite decide if he wants a weak dollar or a strong dollar).

Fine, I thought, Trump's economic program is laughed at by all serious economists. Perhaps focus on that will wake RVonse up.

But he has said in so many words that 4 years of economic grief will NOT prove Trump wrong: It may take five years or more for tariffs to work their magic. I am reminded of the old Five Year plans of the Soviet Union. But even they were supposed to prove their worth before the five years were up.

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear. And if other Democrats really believe this perhaps they should communicate this more often.

IMHO the winning strategy for the Democrats should be this:
Communicate more of what you have just written. Communicate how and why wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere and your plan to bring wealth distribution more even. Communicate how and why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all now. Then communicate your solution for America, what other kind of GOOD high paying jobs you plan for the uneducated people who used to have good lives centered around manufacturing. Communicate why the deficits are no big deal and where you expect the hockey stick of deficits. Where you expect the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us.

IMHO the losing strategy for the Democrats is this:
Communicating how Trump is a big loser and everything he does is wrong. Communicate how dumb his constituents were and still are for voting for him. Communicate to half the population that they are so intellectually lost with their fake right media and that they are too dumb not to know their own economic lives have declined. Another words....what the Democrats have been doing!

That is a remarkably passive aggressive post.

I don't think I've ever uttered the word "passive-aggressive" in my life, but RVonse's whining whinge might be framed as a paradigm.

Or not? Isn't "passive aggression" usually subtle? RVonse's whinge is blatantly in-your-face and has a bitter tone, much like his Messiah's whinges.

Guess when Trump is telling Americans to 'suck it up and deal with the shortages that are coming', when the economy contracts solely on his economic policies because of the grave uncertainty he is causing, and the employment hiring slow downs that are going to be announced because the economy is expected to actually slow down (and not merely technically with the GDP shrinkage), makes it harder to outwardly support Trump's economic policies.

That when all the shit we warned you about is coming to pass... you must really need to lay on the obfuscation to hold onto the truckload of bullshit you were sold, and told was gold.

Am I right that in the past RVonse has allied himself with fiscal conservatism and the Austrian school of economics? Trump on the other hand doesn't confirm to any school, and will soon be pushing for lower interest rates while inflation and federal deficits soar. Will that wake up our obstinate Trumpist? My money's on NO.

- - - - - - - - - - -

During a recent interview Trump insisted several times that the "M S 1 3" attached in the image below were part of the actual tattoo. (A discerning glance convinces that the letters are superimposed text, not even photo-shopped to deceive.) The interviewer, from MSNBC as I recall, kept trying to change the subject to avoid embarrassing POTUS, but Trump doubled-down and tripled-down. How can ANYONE with a 100+ IQ admire this buffoon?

 

[NoHolyCows]

Many of my Muslim friends who voted for Trump have since expressed regret—specifically over the ongoing Israeli-Gaza war. They had genuinely believed he might bring about peace and push for a two-state solution, rather than maintaining the status quo they expected from someone like Kamala Harris. That hope, in hindsight, feels misplaced.

Meanwhile, the MAGA loyalists in my wife’s family continue to support Trump at all costs. Some parts of the family don’t even speak anymore because of it.

People often wonder whether those around Trump actually believe what they’re spreading, or if they’re knowingly lying to your face. I happen to know someone personally who was pardoned by Trump—not one of the January 6th rioters, for those wondering. I’m also acquainted with him beyond his public persona, and I can say with confidence: he believes it all, 100%. In my view, he continues to spread misinformation—especially about the 2020 election.

NHC

 

[Swammerdami]

Am I an especially good judge of character? I listen to the smarmy diction of Trump and automatically detest him regardless of his politics. Are many Americans such very bad judges of character? I realize that some relish wallowing in smarmy bullshit, but surely these are exceptions.

Trevor Noah gets it.

 

[RVonse]

RVonse has made it clear that Trump's racism, misogyny, criminality and blatant ignorance have no interest for him. The obvious fascism -- Trump's thugs are arresting judges, legislators are sent death threats, etc. -- are irrelevant to RVonse. Economics is the only issue of importance (although, like Trump, RVonse cannot quite decide if he wants a weak dollar or a strong dollar).

Fine, I thought, Trump's economic program is laughed at by all serious economists. Perhaps focus on that will wake RVonse up.

But he has said in so many words that 4 years of economic grief will NOT prove Trump wrong: It may take five years or more for tariffs to work their magic. I am reminded of the old Five Year plans of the Soviet Union. But even they were supposed to prove their worth before the five years were up.

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear. And if other Democrats really believe this perhaps they should communicate this more often.

IMHO the winning strategy for the Democrats should be this:
Communicate more of what you have just written. Communicate how and why wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere and your plan to bring wealth distribution more even. Communicate how and why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all now. Then communicate your solution for America, what other kind of GOOD high paying jobs you plan for the uneducated people who used to have good lives centered around manufacturing. Communicate why the deficits are no big deal and where you expect the hockey stick of deficits. Where you expect the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us.

IMHO the losing strategy for the Democrats is this:
Communicating how Trump is a big loser and everything he does is wrong. Communicate how dumb his constituents were and still are for voting for him. Communicate to half the population that they are so intellectually lost with their fake right media and that they are too dumb not to know their own economic lives have declined. Another words....what the Democrats have been doing!

That is a remarkably passive aggressive post.

I don't think I've ever uttered the word "passive-aggressive" in my life, but RVonse's whining whinge might be framed as a paradigm.

Or not? Isn't "passive aggression" usually subtle? RVonse's whinge is blatantly in-your-face and has a bitter tone, much like his Messiah's whinges.

Guess when Trump is telling Americans to 'suck it up and deal with the shortages that are coming', when the economy contracts solely on his economic policies because of the grave uncertainty he is causing, and the employment hiring slow downs that are going to be announced because the economy is expected to actually slow down (and not merely technically with the GDP shrinkage), makes it harder to outwardly support Trump's economic policies.

That when all the shit we warned you about is coming to pass... you must really need to lay on the obfuscation to hold onto the truckload of bullshit you were sold, and told was gold.

Am I right that in the past RVonse has allied himself with fiscal conservatism and the Austrian school of economics? Trump on the other hand doesn't confirm to any school, and will soon be pushing for lower interest rates while inflation and federal deficits soar. Will that wake up our obstinate Trumpist? My money's on NO.

- - - - - - - - - - -

During a recent interview Trump insisted several times that the "M S 1 3" attached in the image below were part of the actual tattoo. (A discerning glance convinces that the letters are superimposed text, not even photo-shopped to deceive.) The interviewer, from MSNBC as I recall, kept trying to change the subject to avoid embarrassing POTUS, but Trump doubled-down and tripled-down. How can ANYONE with a 100+ IQ admire this buffoon?

You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad, rvonse is stupid, etc. That will not convince anyone but yourself or others who already share your opinion.

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution (better than tariffs and/or other taxation) you believe would fix our obvious problems.

For what its worth, I don't know if Trump's tariffs are going to work either. But I also do not know of anything proposed that would work better to recover our lost manufacturing infrastructure.

I have heard many times where I work my boss saying they wish their management would just make a decision already. And that at least a bad decision would be better than no decision. And now I can see what they mean when they say that. The Democrats don't do anything but rip on the other side with no solution of their own.

 

[RVonse]

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear.

I doubt those truths would calm much fear. Since the rest of post is sprinkled with fear mongering phrases such as “wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere” or “why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all” or
“the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us”.

If my language is too truthful and harsh then smooth it over better in your own words. But the point to be made is that people need convinced we are not going to have a currency crises or worse.

And besides winning more elections, the Democrats will also know they have succeeded with their message if there are far fewer preppers out there buying up gold. And they will know they have succeeded if middle class have more buying power and the uber rich aren't so out of touch with them.

As far as winning elections, what good has bashing Trump really done for the Democrats so far?

 

[Patooka]

As far as winning elections, what good has bashing Trump really done for the Democrats so far?

What fucking Trump bashing? Compared to what the orange cunt says about his opponents the Democrats haven't been bashing him enough.

 

[ZiprHead]

You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad,

No. Trump is doing that all by himself.

 

[jonatha]

For what its worth, I don't know if Trump's tariffs are going to work either. But I also do not know of anything proposed that would work better to recover our lost manufacturing infrastructure

Don't know much about the many provisions to this end in laws passed during the Biden administration I see....

 

[bilby]

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution

Trump got 77,302,580 votes in 2024. The US Population in 2024 was about 340,100,000, so less than a quarter of the population voted for Trump (22.7%).

The population of eligible voters is about 234,000,000; So about a third of the eligible population voted for Trump.

My superior solution is compulsory voting. We have had it here since 1924, and it ensures that everyone, and not only the extremists, gets counted.

You should definitely try it.

Dump the electoral college, so that every vote is equal in value.

Add in Instant Runoff Voting to ensure that those who vote for a third party candidate don't get ignored.

You might end up with something approaching the people's choice of President winning office.

 

[laughing dog]

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear.

I doubt those truths would calm much fear. Since the rest of post is sprinkled with fear mongering phrases such as “wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere” or “why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all” or
“the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us”.

If my language is too truthful and harsh then smooth it over better in your own words.

It is not truthful. Nor does it seem you wish to be convinced of anything.

What is this currency crisis? If Trump knows what he is doing, why are people worried about some looming currency crisis?

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

RVonse has made it clear that Trump's racism, misogyny, criminality and blatant ignorance have no interest for him. The obvious fascism -- Trump's thugs are arresting judges, legislators are sent death threats, etc. -- are irrelevant to RVonse. Economics is the only issue of importance (although, like Trump, RVonse cannot quite decide if he wants a weak dollar or a strong dollar).

Fine, I thought, Trump's economic program is laughed at by all serious economists. Perhaps focus on that will wake RVonse up.

But he has said in so many words that 4 years of economic grief will NOT prove Trump wrong: It may take five years or more for tariffs to work their magic. I am reminded of the old Five Year plans of the Soviet Union. But even they were supposed to prove their worth before the five years were up.

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear. And if other Democrats really believe this perhaps they should communicate this more often.

IMHO the winning strategy for the Democrats should be this:
Communicate more of what you have just written. Communicate how and why wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere and your plan to bring wealth distribution more even. Communicate how and why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all now. Then communicate your solution for America, what other kind of GOOD high paying jobs you plan for the uneducated people who used to have good lives centered around manufacturing. Communicate why the deficits are no big deal and where you expect the hockey stick of deficits. Where you expect the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us.

IMHO the losing strategy for the Democrats is this:
Communicating how Trump is a big loser and everything he does is wrong. Communicate how dumb his constituents were and still are for voting for him. Communicate to half the population that they are so intellectually lost with their fake right media and that they are too dumb not to know their own economic lives have declined. Another words....what the Democrats have been doing!

That is a remarkably passive aggressive post.

I don't think I've ever uttered the word "passive-aggressive" in my life, but RVonse's whining whinge might be framed as a paradigm.

Or not? Isn't "passive aggression" usually subtle? RVonse's whinge is blatantly in-your-face and has a bitter tone, much like his Messiah's whinges.

Guess when Trump is telling Americans to 'suck it up and deal with the shortages that are coming', when the economy contracts solely on his economic policies because of the grave uncertainty he is causing, and the employment hiring slow downs that are going to be announced because the economy is expected to actually slow down (and not merely technically with the GDP shrinkage), makes it harder to outwardly support Trump's economic policies.

That when all the shit we warned you about is coming to pass... you must really need to lay on the obfuscation to hold onto the truckload of bullshit you were sold, and told was gold.

Am I right that in the past RVonse has allied himself with fiscal conservatism and the Austrian school of economics? Trump on the other hand doesn't confirm to any school, and will soon be pushing for lower interest rates while inflation and federal deficits soar. Will that wake up our obstinate Trumpist? My money's on NO.

- - - - - - - - - - -

During a recent interview Trump insisted several times that the "M S 1 3" attached in the image below were part of the actual tattoo. (A discerning glance convinces that the letters are superimposed text, not even photo-shopped to deceive.) The interviewer, from MSNBC as I recall, kept trying to change the subject to avoid embarrassing POTUS, but Trump doubled-down and tripled-down. How can ANYONE with a 100+ IQ admire this buffoon?

You are simply doubling down on the same losing playbook that the Democrats use...Trump is bad, rvonse is stupid, etc. That will not convince anyone but yourself or others who already share your opinion.

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution (better than tariffs and/or other taxation) you believe would fix our obvious problems.

For what its worth, I don't know if Trump's tariffs are going to work either. But I also do not know of anything proposed that would work better to recover our lost manufacturing infrastructure.

I have heard many times where I work my boss saying they wish their management would just make a decision already. And that at least a bad decision would be better than no decision. And now I can see what they mean when they say that. The Democrats don't do anything but rip on the other side with no solution of their own.

The bolded part is typical of your disassociation from reality. Firstly, you are ignoring everyone not of voting age (or otherwise ineligible to vote); well the Republicans don't care for them either. Secondly, of the portion of the population that is eligible to vote, which only makes up 77.65 % of the population. Details follow:

Total population 2024 = 341 million. VAP = 77.65 % = 264.8 million. Actually voted = 152.3 million = 44.66 % of total population.
Donald Trump =77.3 million votes = 50.75 % of total votes = 29.2 % of eligible voters = 22.66 % of total population.
Kamala Harris = 75 million votes = 49.25 % of total votes = 28.3 % of VAP = 22 % of total population.
Did not vote = 112.5 million = 42.5 % of VAP = 33% of total population.

So, half the population did not vote for Trump, nor did half of the VAP.
Of course, the above figures ignore all the voter suppression, gerrymandering and other irregularities, which would make the figures even worse for Trump.

EDIT: I see Bilby also posted some figures while I was working on this post.

 

[Swammerdami]

The US economy is still one of the most productive and largest economies in the world. Add in the inertia embedded into an global monetary system, and the US remains a financial superpower. No country stays on top forever, so it is inevitable the US will lose its standing. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there is some cataclysmic event (an asteroid or destructive war hitting North America), it is likely to be a gradual process.

I for one sincerely hope you correct laughing dog. Just hearing this would go far to calm a lot of fear.

I doubt those truths would calm much fear. Since the rest of post is sprinkled with fear mongering phrases such as “wealth disparity has risen to the stratosphere” or “why manufacturing disappeared, why its no big deal even though China has it all” or
“the value of the dollar in 10 years and why that won't matter to us”.

... have a currency crises[sic] or worse ...

The Euro is still $1.13, up from $1.03 at Trump's Inauguration. The UK Pound is $1.34, up from $1.22. The Japanese Yen is at 1/143, up from 1/158. Who knows WTF you call a "currency crisis" but the results today of Trump-47 do NOT look good for the Dollar. Stock prices -- when measured in Dollars -- have partly recovered from Trump's hysterical dump-pump, but the Dollar itself is still down.

Gold -- whose price is controlled in part by the same fears that captivate RVonse -- set yet another all-time record just two weeks ago. Way back in March, gold broke through the $3000 price barrier for the first time in history. Yet just a few weeks later, on April 22, it sold briefly for $3500, or $112½ per gram.

@RVonse -- Sanity test: Do you think the federal deficit will increase or decrease during Trump's term? Are you willing to bet cash money?

If we are heading for a "currency crisis" it is Republican policies and Trumpist idiocies that are the cause. That you regard Trumponomics as a "solution" to currency crisis is ... laughable.

If my language is too truthful and harsh then smooth it over better in your own words. But the point to be made is that people need convinced we are not going to have a currency crises or worse.

If I can rephrase the reddened comment, you're saying that people deluded by Trumpist and QAnon propaganda have to be rescued from the cesspool of ignorance that has overwhelmed them. That is exactly what we are attempting here, using YOU as the guinea pig.

We are not succeeding. Our attempts to educate you just lead you to double-down on the memes you've picked up.

Have you told us WHERE you get your news and opinions? Jimmy Dore and where else? Can you promise to read some rational opinions and comment on them?

And besides winning more elections, the Democrats will also know they have succeeded with their message if there are far fewer preppers out there buying up gold. And they will know they have succeeded if middle class have more buying power and the uber rich aren't so out of touch with them.

As far as winning elections, what good has bashing Trump really done for the Democrats so far?

• The Biden Administration did a great deal to help ordinary Americans, but I won't list the many such programs. I think you regard such help as counter-productive: Government largesse shouldn't be "wasted" on ordinary people, but directed at corporations and rich Job Creators. But helping boost Americans out of poverty or debt traps boosts their confidence and spending and thus helps the economy.
• The CHIPS and Science Act is a specific Democratic program aimed at boosting American high-tech manufacturing. Trump and the Rs want to kill it, because they didn't get their greedy paws on the graft and the grift.
• There were several other such programs. And the Ds had to do all this while coping with the COVID mess Trump had created. Objective observers regard the Biden Administration as one of the most succssful ever. That you cannot accept that is just evidence of the Bullshit Bubble that has entrapped you.
• The economy added 16.6 million jobs, and Gross Domestic Product grew 12.6%. The Biden-Harris Administration is the only administration in history to have created jobs every single month.
• The Administration achieved the lowest average unemployment in 50 years—with record-low unemployment rates for Black Americans, Latino Americans, women, veterans, workers without a high school diploma, and workers with disabilities.
• The share of working-age Americans in the workforce reached its highest level in two decades, and the share of working-age women in the workforce hit a record high.
• The strong labor market led to better pay and working conditions. After-tax incomes increased by nearly $4,000, accounting for inflation, and real wages grew most quickly for low-wage workers. This is the strongest recovery for real wage growth in 50 years.
• Wealth, adjusted for inflation, rose a record 37% for the median American household.
• Americans filed a record 21 million new small business applications, the most in any presidential administration in history.
• The core CPI (inflation rate) during the final year of the Biden Administration was 3.3%, close to what many economists regard as optimal^*. (For example, during the 20 mostly Republican years from 1973 to 1993, out of 240 monthly reports, there was one of 3.2% and one of 3.1% -- both in 1983 after a major recession -- and the other 238 reports were all higher than 3.3%.

It's too early to be sure how disastrous Trump will be, but the most recent weekly report of unemployment insurance claims shows that number to be the highest it has been since 2021.

 

[ImGod]

The winning move is figure out why half the population voted for Trump and then to proceed with your own superior solution

Trump got 77,302,580 votes in 2024. The US Population in 2024 was about 340,100,000, so less than a quarter of the population voted for Trump (22.7%).

The population of eligible voters is about 234,000,000; So about a third of the eligible population voted for Trump.

My superior solution is compulsory voting. We have had it here since 1924, and it ensures that everyone, and not only the extremists, gets counted.

You should definitely try it.

Dump the electoral college, so that every vote is equal in value.

Add in Instant Runoff Voting to ensure that those who vote for a third party candidate don't get ignored.

You might end up with something approaching the people's choice of President winning office.

We are a constitutiinal republic not a democracy. I really wish everyone would remember that so we don't break up.

If we wanted a better representation, states could always do what my state does (or Maine) and apportion electoral votes by congressional districts. But the lefties of CA, NY, and IL don't want to do that any more than any red state does. They could lead the way but want their blue blocks as much as any red block gerrymandering.

 

[jonatha]

If we wanted a better representation, states could always do what my state does (or Maine) and apportion electoral votes by congressional districts. But the lefties of CA, NY, and IL don't want to do that any more than any red state does. They could lead the way but want their blue blocks as much as any red block gerrymandering.

I'd be all for this if the Constitution included an algorithm for setting the boundaries of voting districts that made gerrymandering effectively impossible.

(Neither Nebraska nor Maine has to contend with that, of course, at least not yet...)

 

[bilby]

We are a constitutiinal republic not a democracy. I really wish everyone would remember that so we don't break up.

That's all well and good when electing Senators. But there is only one President, so giving different states different voting power per voter in the Presidential race is just straightforwardly unfair and stupid.

 

[Ford]

As far as winning elections, what good has bashing Trump really done for the Democrats so far?

What fucking Trump bashing? Compared to what the orange cunt says about his opponents the Democrats haven't been bashing him enough.

Also worth pointing out that "our opponent is bad" is a strategy Republicans have used repeatedly. They essentially re-branded their entire outfit to "The Party of Family Values" to try and win against Bill "Cheated on His Wife Multiple Times" Clinton. They ran against both Gore and Kerry as "these guys are out of touch elitists." They bashed Obama for being a "Kenyan Socialist Muslim" and accused him of not even being born in America.

And who could forget the relentless bashing of "Sleepy Joe" Biden who nonetheless won over Trump despite allegedly campaigning from his basement.

Of course, Trump does nothing but bash his opponents....even in his own party. Now he's literally bashing them, using thugs to rough up judges and throw them in the clink for opposing his policies.