Are protestants hiding a Catholic-sized sex abuse scandal?

[Underseer]

https://newrepublic.com/article/142...concealing-catholic-size-sexual-abuse-scandal
June 20, 2017

This is a year old, but it's a reminder of warnings made a few years ago by Evangelical activists in GRACE. GRACE argued that because the media focuses so much on Catholic sex abuse scandals, it was easier for Evangelical ministries to hide incidents of sex abuse, and so many were.

As you remember from the Catholic scandals, the biggest problems come from hiding incidents of child molestation. Doing this generally increases the number of children who are at risk of being exposed to a predator, and victims are often re-traumatized by church leaders (e.g. "You'll go to hell if you talk to the police about this!").

GRACE argued that the problem was actually worse at Evangelical ministries because it was so easy to sweep problems under the rug, while the spotlight has forced the Catholic church to (however grudgingly) take steps to address the problem.

To the credit of the media, there have been an increase in reports of sex abuse scandals at Protestant organizations since GRACE started raising alarm bells, but as the above article points out, we still need to remind people that child molestation is not an exclusively Catholic problem.

I'm not saying this out of a desire to defend Catholics, nor to attack Protestants. I don't have a pony in that particular race.

I'm bringing this up because our tribalist desire to score cheap rhetorical points in the name of in-group validation can have the unintended consequence of endangering the children in your own community.

It might feel good to point your finger at the other and dramatically shout "J'accuse!" but if that finger never points at your own community, the result is not less problems for your own community, but more.

When the topic of child molestation comes up, I hope that everyone keeps in mind that the primary focus should be on protecting children[ent]mdash[/ent]all children[ent]mdash[/ent]instead of just the pleasure of attacking people in the out group (and why are you taking pleasure in that in the first place?).

 

[Shake]

Differences in dogma are irrelevant to the structural and bureaucratic similarities of all churches and the fact that pedophiles are drawn to positions which would afford them the best opportunities, and in this case, even protection. In other words, I wouldn't be all that surprised if something comes up.

 

[Bronzeage]

The potential for child abuse exists in any organization where an adult has authority and access to children.

Churches differ from the Boy Scouts and Little League because there is a culture of confession, penitence, and forgiveness. This creates a rational where offenders are not thrown to secular authorities, but instead subjected to church discipline. As long as the offender remains "penitent", the church structure is obligated to contain the scandal inside the church. The Roman Catholic Church had enough positions in far away churches, a priest could be sent someplace for a new start. We all all know how that worked out.

It's fair to say child abuse is a problem in all churches, but Protestant Churches lack the hierarchy that allows an abuser to move to another church and start over. It's much more likely for an offending minister to be found working at JC Penny's, instead of moving to another church. It's probably just as likely he'll be reported to the secular police.

 

[whollygoats]

The FFRF house organ used to regularly publish a double truck 'police blotter' page in the center of their bimonthly editions. All clerics, all the time.

Yes, the pedophiles will slither to wherever they have a nice rock that nobody even thinks to turn over to hide. The thing is, the other 'morality crimes' (hookers, drugs, sodomy) seem to be more prevalent with the Bible-thumper evangelical types. You get more stories of children's pastors being caught in flagrant delecti snorting PCP of the ass of their male escort drug dealer on some offshore sailboat. But, hey, some times the male escort drug dealer is under age.

 

[steve_bank]

Evangelicals preey much despise Catholics because the pope et al define interpretation of scripture. You can hear it occasionally on Christian TV and radio. Jefferson had no love for Catholics.

To be balanced, there was a major abuse scandal in the American Hindu church. Remember the Hare Krishnas?

 

[braces_for_impact]

I suspect the problem is a lot more widespread in evangelical churches than people may realize. Some of the reasons Bronzeage has posted, the other is control, respect, and authority that pastors can exercise over their flock, along with a tendency to absolve men and blame women for abusive sexual behavior. I know when I hear the term "Youth minister" I'm immediately on edge.

 

[Politesse]

My seminary years were overshadowed by a quiet but massive organizational purge, as the branch of Lutheranism I belonged to urgently tried to root out its bad eggs and pass them over to secular authorities rather than become the next RCC. This was in the early oughts, and there were plenty of rugs to air as it turned out. The one advantage of being in a large organization is that such a purge is somewhat more possible if attempted; because evangelicals often do not band together about the level of a given church/pastor, who is going to review his actions? Usually a small council of "elders" that he has a lot of power and influence over, and who are hesitant to believe wicked rumors about him. "Why, I've known Pastor Mike since he was a child! He would never do something like that, she must be confused somehow."

 

[steve_bank]

Evangelicals can be firly bizzre, I have sen it. They can instantaneously spin any situation in terms of scroture and what god wants.

If the stats were right, by percentage the percent of abuse by clerics is lower than the general population.

It is not the fact that abuse occurs. It is the cover up to maintain the RCC position as absolute moral authority over humans. I expect the same throughout Christianity.

I did not read it. An ex nun wrote a tell all claiming sex between nuns and priests was not uncommon. In the RCC it is an open secret.

 

[Jobar]

I agree with Bronzeage that the sheer size of the Catholic regime, and their tendency to view their own laws as preeminent over secular law, probably means they really do have a worse problem with sexual abuse than do most Protestant faiths. Which is not to say that Protestant churches don't have abusers in positions of authority and sanctity; I'm sure they do. Abusers will always seek out such positions.

 

[whollygoats]

I agree with Bronzeage that the sheer size of the Catholic regime, and their tendency to view their own laws as preeminent over secular law, probably means they really do have a worse problem with sexual abuse than do most Protestant faiths. Which is not to say that Protestant churches don't have abusers in positions of authority and sanctity; I'm sure they do. Abusers will always seek out such positions.

Particularly in positions where they have 'privilege' and are generally considered 'above reproach'. Those are the positions they seek out.

 

[steve_bank]

My seminary years were overshadowed by a quiet but massive organizational purge, as the branch of Lutheranism I belonged to urgently tried to root out its bad eggs and pass them over to secular authorities rather than become the next RCC. This was in the early oughts, and there were plenty of rugs to air as it turned out. The one advantage of being in a large organization is that such a purge is somewhat more possible if attempted; because evangelicals often do not band together about the level of a given church/pastor, who is going to review his actions? Usually a small council of "elders" that he has a lot of power and influence over, and who are hesitant to believe wicked rumors about him. "Why, I've known Pastor Mike since he was a child! He would never do something like that, she must be confused somehow."

I looked at your profile. What is a liberal pagan-Christian?

 

[Politesse]

My seminary years were overshadowed by a quiet but massive organizational purge, as the branch of Lutheranism I belonged to urgently tried to root out its bad eggs and pass them over to secular authorities rather than become the next RCC. This was in the early oughts, and there were plenty of rugs to air as it turned out. The one advantage of being in a large organization is that such a purge is somewhat more possible if attempted; because evangelicals often do not band together about the level of a given church/pastor, who is going to review his actions? Usually a small council of "elders" that he has a lot of power and influence over, and who are hesitant to believe wicked rumors about him. "Why, I've known Pastor Mike since he was a child! He would never do something like that, she must be confused somehow."

I looked at your profile. What is a liberal pagan-Christian?

As it sounds. I participate in a few religious traditions, but mostly value open-mindedness and experience.

 

[Underseer]

The potential for child abuse exists in any organization where an adult has authority and access to children.

Churches differ from the Boy Scouts and Little League because there is a culture of confession, penitence, and forgiveness. This creates a rational where offenders are not thrown to secular authorities, but instead subjected to church discipline. As long as the offender remains "penitent", the church structure is obligated to contain the scandal inside the church. The Roman Catholic Church had enough positions in far away churches, a priest could be sent someplace for a new start. We all all know how that worked out.

It's fair to say child abuse is a problem in all churches, but Protestant Churches lack the hierarchy that allows an abuser to move to another church and start over. It's much more likely for an offending minister to be found working at JC Penny's, instead of moving to another church. It's probably just as likely he'll be reported to the secular police.

No, they don't have the hierarchy to move to another state or country.

But from the reports that are bubbling up, what generally happens is that they remain right where they are while the church leaders attack anyone who complains and tell the children they'll go to hell if they talk to police. No need to move the predator when you can just leave him in place to prey on the same children!

The problem is not the hierarchy so much as the need to maintain the illusion of moral superiority, which almost all religions have.

The Euthyphro dilemma proves that no authority-based moral system can make anyone more moral. All religions claim they can make you more moral despite the fact that it was already proved that none of them can deliver on that promise. The moral claims of all religions are false, but exist because they are an effective marketing tactic. People are less willing to question the man in the pulpit if they believe doing so will cause them to become bad people.

Since every religion maintains an illusion of moral superiority for marketing purposes, incidents of child molestation threaten to expose the lie. Regardless of how large or small a religious organization is, they have a motive to simply sweep the problem under the rug instead of doing anything to stop it from happening.

- - - Updated - - -

My seminary years were overshadowed by a quiet but massive organizational purge, as the branch of Lutheranism I belonged to urgently tried to root out its bad eggs and pass them over to secular authorities rather than become the next RCC. This was in the early oughts, and there were plenty of rugs to air as it turned out. The one advantage of being in a large organization is that such a purge is somewhat more possible if attempted; because evangelicals often do not band together about the level of a given church/pastor, who is going to review his actions? Usually a small council of "elders" that he has a lot of power and influence over, and who are hesitant to believe wicked rumors about him. "Why, I've known Pastor Mike since he was a child! He would never do something like that, she must be confused somehow."

I looked at your profile. What is a liberal pagan-Christian?

As it sounds. I participate in a few religious traditions, but mostly value open-mindedness and experience.

That was expectedly vague.

 

[Underseer]

I suspect the problem is a lot more widespread in evangelical churches than people may realize. Some of the reasons Bronzeage has posted, the other is control, respect, and authority that pastors can exercise over their flock, along with a tendency to absolve men and blame women for abusive sexual behavior. I know when I hear the term "Youth minister" I'm immediately on edge.

According to the Evangelical activists in GRACE, the problem is actually worse in Evangelical ministries because of the media-created narrative that pedophilia is an exclusively Catholic problem. A lot of Evangelical ministries get away with hiding these problems simply because people aren't looking for them.

Which brings me back to my original point.

Many Protestants promote the idea that pedophilia is an exclusively Catholic phenomenon in order to score cheap rhetorical points, but in doing so, they have ironically placed more Protestant children at risk of molestation. That tribalist desire to point a finger at the other can have terrible unintended consequences.

 

[Politesse]

That was expectedly vague.

Sorry?

I'll try to keep my religion simpler in the future. Wouldn't want you to have to get a new set of crayons.

 

[Jobar]

Well, Poli, just recently I was a pallbearer at a religious funeral; but I would not say that I "participate in" the Church of the Nazarene just because that was the sect my dead friend was a member of. Still it might fairly be said I 'participated' in that service.

I admit that I too am not really clear on how you can say you're both pagan and Christian, and would be interested to hear how you deal with the usual Christian denial of all other gods and faiths. Not saying you can't be both; you know how many tens of thousands of words I've written, justifying my own position as an atheist/pantheist. So you might consider expanding considerably on your own beliefs, which many might call contradictory.

(Such a discussion would be a considerable derail from this thread, so if you decide to do it either start a new thread, or we'll split it off.)

 

[Politesse]

Well, Poli, just recently I was a pallbearer at a religious funeral; but I would not say that I "participate in" the Church of the Nazarene just because that was the sect my dead friend was a member of. Still it might fairly be said I 'participated' in that service.

I admit that I too am not really clear on how you can say you're both pagan and Christian, and would be interested to hear how you deal with the usual Christian denial of all other gods and faiths. Not saying you can't be both; you know how many tens of thousands of words I've written, justifying my own position as an atheist/pantheist. So you might consider expanding considerably on your own beliefs, which many might call contradictory.

(Such a discussion would be a considerable derail from this thread, so if you decide to do it either start a new thread, or we'll split it off.)

I recall doing a Q and A thread along those lines back at SC. I don't think anyone was less confused by the end of it.

 

[Lion IRC]

That was expectedly vague.

Sorry?

I'll try to keep my religion simpler in the future. Wouldn't want you to have to get a new set of crayons.

You're never going to please everyone's demand for a cookie-cutter definition. Christians who put up Christmas trees or have coloured Easter eggs are called pagan. Catholics are called pagans because there are statues of Mary in their church.
The Trinity is accused of being polytheistic heresy. And so it goes.

 

[whollygoats]

That was expectedly vague.

Sorry?

I'll try to keep my religion simpler in the future. Wouldn't want you to have to get a new set of crayons.

You're never going to please everyone's demand for a cookie-cutter definition. Christians who put up Christmas trees or have coloured Easter eggs are called pagan. Catholics are called pagans because there are statues of Mary in their church.
The Trinity is accused of being polytheistic heresy. And so it goes.

What....You haven't learned the term 'idolaters'? Orthodox Christians are pretty idolatrous that way, too.

The thing is, even just an ordinary Christian cross is basically idolatry. As is sola scriptura, which idolizes a heavily reworked set of stories.

You've got the basic idea, though. It's all a bunch of silly superstitions.