Are there any "true" atheists?

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Nowadays a common definition for an "atheist" at least among those who consider themselves atheists is the following:

atheist - a person who does not believe in any God(s)

In recent years I've thought of some difficulties with this definition. It implies that an atheist has zero belief in God(s). However, just like it's very common to recognize that those who call themselves theists very often harbor some doubt that God(s) exist(s), why should atheists be free of doubt that no God(s) exist(s)? In other words, those who identify as atheists may have a wee bit of belief in God(s) and are possibly unaware of it.

One objection I've encountered to the view that an atheist can believe in God(s) is that it's a contradiction in terms: An atheist by definition cannot have any theism. It doesn't make sense to say that an atheist believes in a God! The fallacy in this objection is that it fails to recognize that there's nothing keeping a person from having contradictory beliefs and thoughts. Sure, believing in God and denying God might seem nonsensical, but people are often inconsistent and irrational.

So are there any people who are "true" atheists? The answer to this question should be approached with much reflection and examination of one's psyche. There may well be some irrational theism lurking in the depths of the consciousness of the most rational atheist.

Babies are born atheists.

 

[TomC]

That's your own definition. Aside from assertions to the contrary, how can we know that some people don't believe in any Gods?

I don't pretend to know.
I generally just go with however they self identify. It's none of my business really.

Of course, I don't much care either. I care about people's behavior, not their beliefs. Their theological beliefs are, at most, an interesting feature of the person. They don't define the person.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

That's your own definition. Aside from assertions to the contrary, how can we know that some people don't believe in any Gods?

ask them.

It seems you are looking for a definition that rules out anyone from being a “true” atheist

 

[Unknown Soldier]

But when you dig down into sub-categories, it complexifies. There are a few different sorts of atheism. There are several kinds of theism.

I think there may also be hybrid categories--mixtures of atheism and theism. For example, many atheists point out that most theists don't believe in all gods. So a Christian, for example, is an atheist in regard to Osiris but a theist in regard to Yahweh. So a self-described atheist might disbelieve in the Gods of religion yet still believe in a god of her own.

You seemed to comment on this without actually reading the post.

I read it.

The scale is based on certainty...

What do you mean here? Are you saying that the "degree of atheism/theism" varies?

...not whether they have materialistic or other types of "gods".

You lost me here too.

And the certainty is based on the question asked.

Certainty of what?

I think we need a more logical and factual atheism. We could sure use that in this forum.

What is "true atheism"?

In the context of the OP, "true atheism" would involve a complete absence of belief in any God(s).

There is no "true atheism", it is nothing but a needless label. Some people are obsessed with labels while at the same time, caring not a wit about the underlying beliefs of the individual.

There is a true atheism as I define the term.

You want a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I'm not trying to solve a problem but get an answer to a question: Do any people exist who have no belief at all in any God(s)? I think that some people exist who have no theism, but they're rare. Many people might mistakenly think they're bereft of theism.

 

[laughing dog]

On a planet of over 8 billion people, I find it incredible that a person can doubt the existence of at least one person with belief _______( you fill in the blank), but there is always someone!!!!

 

[Jarhyn]

So, I'm an atheist. I don't "believe" in gods. I have a definition for the term, and either people satisfy it or they don't. That's not belief, that's observational knowledge.

Your "observational knowledge" rests on seeing if people fit your definition of "atheist." How can you observe what people believe?

I also don't believe in "a god of this universe". I have observational knowledge that it is possible, but that is not a belief OR certain knowledge of a positive existence. It is certain knowledge of a possibility.

If you don't believe in a universal God, then you still might believe in some other God.

Atheists don't need to believe there are exactly zero gods, or that gods do not exist, but merely need to lack positive belief in a "THE God(s)"

That's your own definition. Aside from assertions to the contrary, how can we know that some people don't believe in any Gods?

I can observe what I believe, and what I don't.

I don't believe either way. I see, and either there the thing is, caught in the act of satisfying my definition, or there it is not doing that thing.

It's rather cut and dry.

That's not theism though. There's no theology. It's just "observation".

That's not a belief that God's exist, it's a belief about the appropriate use of the utterance "god", and consistent application of language.

I make no subtlety or dissembly about the fact that I meet that definition, and that doing so is nothing special, or grand. So would a few other users here. I think Loren could probably qualify? Not that he would cop to it. But to be fair, humans haven't really created the depth it will take to be gods of anything interesting yet.

I'm not going to look out on the state of my eyes and call reality a liar. I see how it could happen, how I could make it happen, with the advent of AI

So, no. I'm not a theist. I'm an atheist because I don't believe gods exist, I see them with my own eyes walking about in the world, even if I don't know who they are. The issue is that as discussed, if humans can be gods and humans are shitty, then gods can be shitty.

You can choose not to acknowledge my definition of what a "god" is, but you can't claim that whatever token you put that idea I referenced behind, that those things don't exist, and you don't need to believe in them and shouldn't worship them either way. In this way even if you said "that isn't what a god is" I say "well then I don't believe anything else is either so I guess that still doesn't mean I Believe in gods."

If I ever meet (One of) The God(s) and there is such around our experience, that's not a belief either. That would be an observation, and any discovery of such would not obviate the observation that humans are shitty and humans are also gods.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Yes, I am a "true" atheist, one of many. Pick any nontheist writer on this site who deals in snark and you've found one of us. We respond to the sarcasm in Mencken, Twain, and Ingersoll, because when we're in our huddle, that's exactly the tone we like. Outside of being mind-boggled by the daily evidence of what various belief systems profess, I don't think of (G)od at all. When I am reminded that the (dwindling) majority of Americans claim to believe in a god, it does not conjure up a real being; that being has the same substance as Casper the Friendly Ghost.
I don't need a god. I do not need it in the rain, I do not need it on a train, I do not need it on a boat, I do not need it with a goat, I do not need it in a box, I do not need it with a fox, I do not need it in a house, I do not need it with a mouse, I do not need it here or there, I do not need it anywhere, I do not need you, God-I-Am.
In my case, I've never had the sense that there was a god. I went along with the formulaic language as a kid, but never, ever, with the sense that there was actually an Invisible Intelligence beside me, wanting to commune with me. This lack of need and interest has only deepened as I've encountered the bizarre and primitive "scriptures" that are so precious to the believers. If you can read Numbers chapter five, with the adultery test, and still believe that this is a part of God's word to us, well, Jesus, you deserve it, and you have no doubt built up a mighty wall of polemics that will stave off doubt. I had been a conscious unbeliever for 25 years when I finally made it through the Book of Mormon (and that is one tough plough), but I remember thinking constantly as the book went from one idiocy to another, "People think this is an inspired text?" But, yeah. People will believe anything.
There are true atheists. Yes, we believe that invisible beings are the product of the human imagination, colored by cultural norms, the need for tidy answers, and the disinclination to face up to the reality of death. Fancy that!

 

[steve_bank]

On his other tread Soldier was trying to prove science and religion are equally faith based, one of the typical theist arguments.

It does seem like Soldier is a theist of some kind, or he is just poking sticks in the eye of atheists.

Or more lkely Soldier does not know what he is trying to prove.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Nowadays a common definition for an "atheist" at least among those who consider themselves atheists is the following:

atheist - a person who does not believe in any God(s)

In recent years I've thought of some difficulties with this definition. It implies that an atheist has zero belief in God(s). However, just like it's very common to recognize that those who call themselves theists very often harbor some doubt that God(s) exist(s), why should atheists be free of doubt that no God(s) exist(s)? In other words, those who identify as atheists may have a wee bit of belief in God(s) and are possibly unaware of it.

One objection I've encountered to the view that an atheist can believe in God(s) is that it's a contradiction in terms: An atheist by definition cannot have any theism. It doesn't make sense to say that an atheist believes in a God! The fallacy in this objection is that it fails to recognize that there's nothing keeping a person from having contradictory beliefs and thoughts. Sure, believing in God and denying God might seem nonsensical, but people are often inconsistent and irrational.

So are there any people who are "true" atheists? The answer to this question should be approached with much reflection and examination of one's psyche. There may well be some irrational theism lurking in the depths of the consciousness of the most rational atheist.

Babies are born atheists.

How do you know that babies are born atheists? Christians also argue that they know what they can't know.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

That's your own definition. Aside from assertions to the contrary, how can we know that some people don't believe in any Gods?

I don't pretend to know.
I generally just go with however they self identify. It's none of my business really.

Of course, I don't much care either. I care about people's behavior, not their beliefs. Their theological beliefs are, at most, an interesting feature of the person. They don't define the person.
Tom

Well, it looks like you're posting in the wrong thread.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yes, I am a "true" atheist, one of many. Pick any nontheist writer on this site who deals in snark and you've found one of us. We respond to the sarcasm in Mencken, Twain, and Ingersoll, because when we're in our huddle, that's exactly the tone we like. Outside of being mind-boggled by the daily evidence of what various belief systems profess, I don't think of (G)od at all. When I am reminded that the (dwindling) majority of Americans claim to believe in a god, it does not conjure up a real being; that being has the same substance as Casper the Friendly Ghost.
I don't need a god. I do not need it in the rain, I do not need it on a train, I do not need it on a boat, I do not need it with a goat, I do not need it in a box, I do not need it with a fox, I do not need it in a house, I do not need it with a mouse, I do not need it here or there, I do not need it anywhere, I do not need you, God-I-Am.
In my case, I've never had the sense that there was a god. I went along with the formulaic language as a kid, but never, ever, with the sense that there was actually an Invisible Intelligence beside me, wanting to commune with me. This lack of need and interest has only deepened as I've encountered the bizarre and primitive "scriptures" that are so precious to the believers. If you can read Numbers chapter five, with the adultery test, and still believe that this is a part of God's word to us, well, Jesus, you deserve it, and you have no doubt built up a mighty wall of polemics that will stave off doubt. I had been a conscious unbeliever for 25 years when I finally made it through the Book of Mormon (and that is one tough plough), but I remember thinking constantly as the book went from one idiocy to another, "People think this is an inspired text?" But, yeah. People will believe anything.
There are true atheists. Yes, we believe that invisible beings are the product of the human imagination, colored by cultural norms, the need for tidy answers, and the disinclination to face up to the reality of death. Fancy that!

If you have no belief in any God can you explain your obsession with God(s)?

 

[ideologyhunter]

I live in AMERICA. In a red state. Among Bible thumpers. With GOD on our currency and specie. If I lived in Denmark or the Netherlands, I think there'd be a saner wind a-blowing, in general. (Also, reference my first post where I tell you accurately that when I'm not confronted with evidence of others' beliefs, I don't think about God at all. I'm thinking about swimming or walking my dog or watching a film... That's hardly being obsessed with God.)

 

[steve_bank]

As an atheist I can not probe a god or gods do not exist. But then I can;tdis prove ET lizard people who can look like humans are wandering Earth.

As an atheist I can say I see no evidence for a god beyond ancient whitings and subjective predestines.

As usual Soldier thinks he is being clever.

As with all metaphysics, define a term for a category with parameters and those who fit the parameters are in the category. Nothing particularly profound, the history of philosophy.

Without speaking to a particular definition, debating atheism is like dog chasing its tail.

There is no authority as what a 'true' definition of atheism means.

A more clear OP would be something like 'If atheism means no belief in gads, are there any thue atheists?'.

'Are there any true atheists?' is a meaningless question.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Nowadays a common definition for an "atheist" at least among those who consider themselves atheists is the following:

atheist - a person who does not believe in any God(s)

In recent years I've thought of some difficulties with this definition. It implies that an atheist has zero belief in God(s). However, just like it's very common to recognize that those who call themselves theists very often harbor some doubt that God(s) exist(s), why should atheists be free of doubt that no God(s) exist(s)? In other words, those who identify as atheists may have a wee bit of belief in God(s) and are possibly unaware of it.

One objection I've encountered to the view that an atheist can believe in God(s) is that it's a contradiction in terms: An atheist by definition cannot have any theism. It doesn't make sense to say that an atheist believes in a God! The fallacy in this objection is that it fails to recognize that there's nothing keeping a person from having contradictory beliefs and thoughts. Sure, believing in God and denying God might seem nonsensical, but people are often inconsistent and irrational.

So are there any people who are "true" atheists? The answer to this question should be approached with much reflection and examination of one's psyche. There may well be some irrational theism lurking in the depths of the consciousness of the most rational atheist.

Babies are born atheists.

How do you know that babies are born atheists? Christians also argue that they know what they can't know.

People learn religion during life, acquire true knowledge, myths, and propaganda. Anyone can observe this. We remember the first time we heard about religion, those of us who were not taught it too early. We observe it being taught to children by family, friends, and neighbors. Babies are not born believing in Santa Claus either.

 

[Rhea]

Do any people exist who have no belief at all in any God(s)?

Here’s another one. Me, my husband, my kids, my siblings. Most of his siblings.
I have no belief at all in any God(dess)(es).

 

[steve_bank]

Yes, I do no believe in any gods.

Do you Soldier? Maybe Soldier is struggling with sonethng and he is looking for a concrtet answer to his troubles in his threads,

 

[ideologyhunter]

I'd like to include my dachshund, Bogie, in the list. He's totally secular. No gods, no masters. He doesn't even think I'm all that smart.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm not trying to solve a problem but get an answer to a question: Do any people exist who have no belief at all in any God(s)? I think that some people exist who have no theism, but they're rare. Many people might mistakenly think they're bereft of theism.

You "think"? I believe the word is "baselessly presume".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, I do no believe in any gods.

Do you Soldier? Maybe Soldier is struggling with sonethng and he is looking for a concrtet answer to his troubles in his threads,

Their posts typically consist of that of a Contrarianist.

 

[steve_bank]

Yes, I do no believe in any gods.

Do you Soldier? Maybe Soldier is struggling with sonethng and he is looking for a concrtet answer to his troubles in his threads,

Their posts typically consist of that of a Contrarianist.

Are there any true Contrarians? Is he a weak or strong Contrarian?