Are there any "true" atheists?

[Unknown Soldier]

I live in AMERICA. In a red state. Among Bible thumpers. With GOD on our currency and specie. If I lived in Denmark or the Netherlands, I think there'd be a saner wind a-blowing, in general. (Also, reference my first post where I tell you accurately that when I'm not confronted with evidence of others' beliefs, I don't think about God at all. I'm thinking about swimming or walking my dog or watching a film... That's hardly being obsessed with God.)

You obviously have some interest in God. Otherwise, you wouldn't have posted on this thread. Does that mean you have belief in God that you may not be aware of? Not necessarily, but it's possible. Think of the theists who may doubt God at times. Their doubt makes them atheists while being theists! So it's possible to be both.

This is pure defensive projection & this thread is becoming another blathering rabbit hole. But of course, you know me so well that I shouldn't have to post my position.

If you're getting burnt out over the discussion, then you can always move on.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I think that you share the hostility toward the idea of subconscious theism that many others here have. Why is that idea so objectionable?

There are atheists that I label as "angry theists", theists that are temporarily "atheist", but in reality, they are just rebelling.

Yes, I know of such "theistic rebels."

A number of these people become evangelical and talk about how they were once "atheists", which is a crock.

You should be more open to how other people understand and use words. So if to some people an "atheist" is a person rebelling against a God, then just understand the term "atheist" that way. You can always explain that as an atheist you mean something different.

Certainly, some atheists can become theists, but your premise that nearly no atheist is a true atheist is quite dismissible because you are speaking of objective knowledge of the thoughts of others, which is preposterous.

I don't recall posting that no atheist is a true atheist, so you must misunderstand my position. I'm just trying to get good answers to the question regarding the existence of "absolute" atheists--people who have no theistic leanings at all.

Your idea that the dismissal of your idea is "hostility" most likely is because the concept of people not ceding to your super mind of beaucoup critical thinking mastery is only possible via envy, pragmatism, or anger. But really, your idea is just kidding itself.

Actually, if I want to cite hostility toward the notion of atheists harboring some belief in God, then I need go no further than your comments in this post. To refer to that idea as "just kidding itself" seems pretty hostile to me.

I must admit that I've felt the same way at times. Some Christians have taunted me telling others that I believe in God. It's embarrassing to be an avowed atheist who is seen as actually a theist rebelling against God. But to be honest it's hard for me to say with assurance that I have no belief in God at all. Sure, I can use logic or evidence to refute any argument for God. But that's the rational side of my thinking. The "emotional me" might still opt for God at least in some circumstances.

 

[TomC]

If you're getting burnt out over the discussion, then you can always move on.

This is the kind of insulting post that results in people responding in kind.


Lemme ask you a question.
When you say, "True atheists believe that there is no God",
what do you mean by God?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Certainly, some atheists can become theists, but your premise that nearly no atheist is a true atheist is quite dismissible because you are speaking of objective knowledge of the thoughts of others, which is preposterous.

I don't recall posting that no atheist is a true atheist, so you must misunderstand my position. I'm just trying to get good answers to the question regarding the existence of "absolute" atheists--people who have no theistic leanings at all.

I stated your position that most atheists are not truly atheists, because you said:

I think that some people exist who have no theism, but they're rare.

So I'm uncertain your objection here. You are making wild presumptions about what people believe, and expect people to take such presumption seriously?

Your idea that the dismissal of your idea is "hostility" most likely is because the concept of people not ceding to your super mind of beaucoup critical thinking mastery is only possible via envy, pragmatism, or anger. But really, your idea is just kidding itself.

Actually, if I want to cite hostility toward the notion of atheists harboring some belief in God, then I need go no further than your comments in this post. To refer to that idea as "just kidding itself" seems pretty hostile to me.

That is hostile? The idea that you are presuming what is going on in the minds of other people is quite preposterous. Sure, some atheists could have theistic leanings, but the idea that it is rare for an atheist to actually be an atheist is ridiculous.

I must admit that I've felt the same way at times. Some Christians have taunted me telling others that I believe in God. It's embarrassing to be an avowed atheist who is seen as actually a theist rebelling against God. But to be honest it's hard for me to say with assurance that I have no belief in God at all.

That's great for you. You are very well read up on how you think. How other people think, not so much.

Sure, I can use logic or evidence to refute any argument for God.

Part of me doubts that. The other part is certain it isn't true.

But that's the rational side of my thinking. The "emotional me" might still opt for God at least in some circumstances.

Your thread OP isn't about your personal issues with atheism... it was about proclaiming knowledge of the leanings of other atheists. That you have doubts doesn't mean others must as well.

 

[TomC]

Some Christians have taunted me telling others that I believe in God. It's embarrassing to be an avowed atheist who is seen as actually a theist rebelling against God. But to be honest it's hard for me to say with assurance that I have no belief in God at all.

I can definitely relate to this part.
Since the dawn of the internet, my theological world view hasn't changed all that much. It's pretty much the same as I've described here in this thread. I've had atheists complain that I'm not a true atheist, therefore I'm being dishonest. And theists complain that I'm not a true believer, because my god image doesn't match their "invisible sky king with superpowers" God image, so I just just get off the fence and call myself an atheist.

I don't much care about such people's opinions. I had to grow serious rhino hide to survive as an openly, unrepentantly, gay man here in deep Red Jesustan, Indiana.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

I'm just trying to get good answers to the question regarding the existence of "absolute" atheists--people who have no theistic leanings at all.

I think a good answer is "yes, they exist. why wouldn't they?"

 

[steve_bank]

There is a saying, insanity is taking the same failed approach over and over again expecting to get a different result.

1. Are there any true atheists here?
2. Yes me.
3. But there are no true atheists, are there any true atheists here?
3. Me too.
4. Are there any true atheists?.....

 

[Worldtraveller]

I don't believe in any gods, therefore, I'm a true atheist.

 

[Rhea]

Do any people exist who have no belief at all in any God(s)?

Here’s another one. Me, my husband, my kids, my siblings. Most of his siblings.
I have no belief at all in any God(dess)(es).

A lot of people insist they aren't racist but when tested for it test positive. Others say they can distinguish between Coke and Pepsi and fail that test too. So what people say and what's the reality often differ.

I am an atheist.
So is my husband. So are my children. So are my siblings and most of his.

This is reality. Someone who is asking in honesty would not immediately turn around and call me deluded.
I know perfectly well what I don’t believe in. You are wrong.

You asked for examples of people who have no belief at all in any god(dess)(es).
I gave you a true, real, first hand examples, with personal knowledge of others who have spoken at length and for decades in person with me on the subject.

You have received an answer to your question.
If you try to call me deluded or a liar again, you will have made clear your real motive, and it is not finding any truths.

 

[Rhea]

There is a saying, insanity is taking the same failed approach over and over again expecting to get a different result.

1. Are there any true atheists here?
2. Yes me.
3. But there are no true atheists, are there any true atheists here?
3. Me too.
4. Are there any true atheists?.....

This.

So I think we can conclude that Unknown Soldier is unwilling (unable?) to imagine anyone who thinks differently than he does.

 

[Worldtraveller]

There is a saying, insanity is taking the same failed approach over and over again expecting to get a different result.

1. Are there any true atheists here?
2. Yes me.
3. But there are no true atheists, are there any true atheists here?
3. Me too.
4. Are there any true atheists?.....

This.

So I think we can conclude that Unknown Soldier is unwilling (unable?) to imagine anyone who thinks differently than he does.

Which is, ironically, a very religious mindset.

 

[steve_bank]

On his other thread he argued religions and scientific beliefs are of the same order.

On this thread it is there are no real atheists.

Putting on my armature psychologist hat, it sounds like he is trying to convince himself not us.

My same view of theists. They post here to shore up their own faith, not to persuade us.

Sure I have an interest in god. Christians with political power can directly affect my life. laws to reflect biblical interpretations and morality. Second, religion has been a part of recorded history in many forms.

The bible and god are an important part of western civilization and history. The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

And as Hercule Poirot might say, it exercises the little grey cells.

 

[TomC]

So I think we can conclude that Unknown Soldier is unwilling (unable?) to imagine anyone who thinks differently than he does.

Or, to make everything more murky and complex,
in other words "more human",

what he's been taught to think other people believe.

I was almost 10 before I realized that protestants believed in Jesus. I was taught by Catholics.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

If anything I would question if there are any “true” theists.

 

[TomC]

The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

 

[TomC]

The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Sorry I responded to your post?

 

[Rhea]

The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom

LOL, I hadn’t thought of that angle before.

Christian: Bible is best selling book of all time!
Atheist: only in the translations. The original was kind of a dud there. Look at the Quran, though! Still printing in the original language!


How do other texts compare? Bhagavad Gita?

 

[TomC]

The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom

LOL, I hadn’t thought of that angle before.

Christian: Bible is best selling book of all time!
Muslim: only in the translations. The original was kind of a dud there. Look at the Quran, though! Still printing in the original language!


How do other texts compare? Bhagavad Gita?

Fixed your post.

I understand how easy it is to make the mistake of believing that religion and christisnity are the same, here in the US.
Tom

 

[EricH]

Nowadays a common definition for an "atheist" at least among those who consider themselves atheists is the following:

atheist - a person who does not believe in any God(s)

I am an atheist and I don't believe any gods exist, because I have not seen any evidence that would make me believe, or even suggest to me that gods exist. I am not certain that gods do not exist, but I still consider myself an atheist.

In recent years I've thought of some difficulties with this definition. It implies that an atheist has zero belief in God(s). However, just like it's very common to recognize that those who call themselves theists very often harbor some doubt that God(s) exist(s), why should atheists be free of doubt that no God(s) exist(s)? In other words, those who identify as atheists may have a wee bit of belief in God(s) and are possibly unaware of it.

I do not take the position that gods do not exist as such a position is unfalsifiable. I simply don't believe that they exist based on the evidence I have come across in my life. If I were to come across evidence sufficient to convince me that a god, or gods do exist, I would likely change my mind.

One objection I've encountered to the view that an atheist can believe in God(s) is that it's a contradiction in terms: An atheist by definition cannot have any theism. It doesn't make sense to say that an atheist believes in a God! The fallacy in this objection is that it fails to recognize that there's nothing keeping a person from having contradictory beliefs and thoughts. Sure, believing in God and denying God might seem nonsensical, but people are often inconsistent and irrational.

So are there any people who are "true" atheists? The answer to this question should be approached with much reflection and examination of one's psyche. There may well be some irrational theism lurking in the depths of the consciousness of the most rational atheist.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. By definition, an atheist does not believe that gods exist. I think you are talking about the level of confidence people might have about their belief or lack of belief in god, but if that is the case, your wording lacks clarity.