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Are there non-Christian religions where ALL nonbelievers suffer eternally?

excreationist

excreationist

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In many of the versions of Christianity I'm familiar with, humans are born sinful and deserve to suffer eternally. (unless they're babies or young children) It is ONLY through the acceptance of Jesus's gift of salvation that people are saved. In other religions I was under the impression that if you're good enough (e.g. Mother Theresa or Gandhi or Buddha, etc) then you don't suffer eternally.

In Non-believers - Ever prayed really hard for God to reveal himself? Keith&Co. keeps complaining about me not having done enough research on this topic or something....
 
Islam is one, and from a scientology point of view, those who are not "clear" or "OT" will suffer for millions of lifetimes.
 
hylidae:

About Islam:

What is the mildest punishment (or most reward) that a non-believer can possibly receive?

About Scientology: it involves a sci-fi story written by a sci-fi author though I guess it is interesting to look at briefly.
 
excreationist said:
hylidae:

About Islam:

What is the mildest punishment (or most reward) that a non-believer can possibly receive?
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I don't know. check the Quran.
About Scientology: it involves a sci-fi story written by a sci-fi author though I guess it is interesting to look at briefly.
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It's ALL fantasy. Scientologists believe their fairy tale just as deeply as others do theirs. I always find it amusing as well as rather disgusting that believers in one incoherent, inhumane lie can look down their noses at others who believe a different one.
 
In Buddhism, life is suffering. So the unenlightened, presumably non-Buddhists, will be eternally reborn, ie suffer eternally.
 
DrZoidberg said:
In Buddhism, life is suffering. So the unenlightened, presumably non-Buddhists, will be eternally reborn, ie suffer eternally.
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True, but Buddhist enlightenment doesn't require belief, especially not belief in a spook or else burn for eternity. Whatever suffering you might endure for not experiencing Buddhist enlightenment is not punishment for not adhering to Buddhist tenets.
 
DrZoidberg said:
In Buddhism, life is suffering. So the unenlightened, presumably non-Buddhists, will be eternally reborn, ie suffer eternally.
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Yes you are addressing my question as I wrote it... but by suffering I mean extreme suffering. Our everyday lives can be considered suffering but I mean a hell-like existence.
 
Perhaps Christianity is the only religion that has original sin and that you aren't saved by your own efforts - rather you are rescued by Jesus.
 
If you don't worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the sucky heaven you'll be stuck in won't even have a stripper factory, so that's pretty much the same as suffering eternally.
 
hylidae said:
I don't know. check the Quran.<snip>
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The Qur'an actually says in many places that "people of the book" (i.e. non-Muslims but believers of fraternal religions that are assumed to be based on a divine core even if they were later corrupted by people, which includes Jews and Christians) can go to heaven if they stay righteous. So if by "non-believers" we mean "anybody who doesn't believe in that particular religion", it's not actually true of Islam.

Here's a relevant quote: ""Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Sura 2:62)
 
DrZoidberg said:
In Buddhism, life is suffering. So the unenlightened, presumably non-Buddhists, will be eternally reborn, ie suffer eternally.
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Worry not. Avalokiteshvara has vowed not to obtain nirvana until all sentient beings are liberated.

Also, Buddhism doesn't stress belief, it stresses effort. I'm tempted to say more about this, but what follows depends on the sect, especially if we're talking about Mahayana varieties.
 
excreationist said:
hylidae:

About Islam:

What is the mildest punishment (or most reward) that a non-believer can possibly receive?
Click to expand...
Whoa! What the fuck is that for?
You're still trying to hold to the idea that the Christain Hell is the worst possible threat, so that you can Pascal Wager it into first place.
This is cheating. You should be asking for the WORST punishment that a nonbeliever can possible receive, to see how it compares to the worst possible outcome of Christain Hell. Else your research is still one-sided and shows your bias more than any truth.
 
excreationist said:
Perhaps Christianity is the only religion that has original sin and that you aren't saved by your own efforts - rather you are rescued by Jesus.
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Which is incoherence dressed up in something it's not. Ideas of original sin and "saved" by human sacrifice boil down to a belief in "might is right."

Do you believe Might is Right, excreationist?
 
excreationist said:
No thanks but I might try asking some Moslems about it. Thanks for leading me in that direction though. I had assumed that Islam didn't do that.
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This is exactly the problem that Keith&Co. had with you in the other thread.

You are trying to argue in favour of Christianity on the basis that you should hedge your bets because it is the religion with the worst consequences if you don't accept it. Despite what's so horrible wrong with that argument in the first place, you came to the conclusion without bothering to research the other religions and the consequences of not accepting them. You just "assumed" that the next largest religion in the world after Christianity "didn't do that".

Hence his repeated point that you're trying to come to a conclusion about Christianity vs. other religions without studying the other religions.

If you really think that the negative consequences of not believing in a religion is some sort of valid argument for it, why didn't you do the most basic of research into what Islam has to say on the matter of reward and punishment for believers and non-believers?
 
Keith&Co. said:
....You should be asking for the WORST punishment that a nonbeliever can possible receive, to see how it compares to the worst possible outcome of Christain Hell. Else your research is still one-sided and shows your bias more than any truth.
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Well probably someone like Hitler would get the worst possible outcomes and I don't think that is relevant to what the people on this board might expect.
 
Archimedes said:
....Despite what's so horrible wrong with that argument in the first place, you came to the conclusion without bothering to research the other religions and the consequences of not accepting them.
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Well I was open to the possibility that I was wrong. I consider this thread to be research. BTW anyone in the other thread could have brought up Islam but they didn't. It was only my "research" that caused me to learn about it.

You just "assumed" that the next largest religion in the world after Christianity "didn't do that".
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Yes but I was open to the possibility that I might have been wrong.

....If you really think that the negative consequences of not believing in a religion is some sort of valid argument for it, why didn't you do the most basic of research into what Islam has to say on the matter of reward and punishment for believers and non-believers?
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Well I've done the research now... also I've asked people on another messageboard.

BTW I never said I was certain about Christianity being the only religion - in this thread I wrote "I was under the impression".... also in the other thread I mentioned how based on a discussion with a theology student he gave me the impression that Christianity was the only religion where all nonbelievers go to hell.

BTW in 2:62 of the Quran it says:
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve
Click to expand...

So it seems to say that many Christians (and Jews) won't go to hell... so in Christianity and Islam many Christians don't go to hell... on the other hand in Moslems are saved in Islam but according to many sects of Christianity no Moslems are saved.
 
excreationist said:
Well probably someone like Hitler would get the worst possible outcomes and I don't think that is relevant to what the people on this board might expect.
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Why would Hitler get the worst?
He was sure he was doing God's will.

And many posters have made it very clear that there are no gradations. Infinite suffering is infinite suffering. There's no shallow part of the lake of fire, after all.
But this thread was born of your ignorance of other faiths' afterlife traditions.
You can't compare the worst thing you'll get from Christain Tradition to the Least Offensive thing you might get from Allah, or a successful reincarnation cycle.
Risk assessment doesn't work that way.

Now, if you're going to compare traditions, The Greek Gods may not have had a Hell to consign people to, but they were able to craft individual eternal tortures. Staked out on a rock and having a vulture eat your liver once a day for the rest of eternity, for example.
Hades had Sisyphus roll a boulder up a hill, which rolled back down again, an eternity of hard labor.
Atlas, condemned to hold the Heavens upon his shoulder for forever and three days.
So, pissing off Zeus, Hades, Athena, could have eternal consequences that you need to take into account when assessing the Wager.
 
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