Are You Fucking Kidding Me?

[Loren Pechtel]

And you have some evidence the meltdown didn't involve attacking someone??

Typically you need intent for a crime and age is always a factor. Otherwise our prisons would be filled with toddlers and young children.

Get a fucking clue!

And sometimes you have to use criminal charges in order to get someone to get the psychological help they need.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except in the most extreme of circumstances, one shouldn't need the police to handle a 10 year old autistic child in a school, because they are most likely the most ill equipped and poorly trained to handle a 10 year old autistic child.

Except they are the only ones that can, even though they aren't equipped for it.

The school's hands are tied in the use of force, thus they have to call the cops over things that shouldn't really be police matters in the first place.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Typically you need intent for a crime and age is always a factor. Otherwise our prisons would be filled with toddlers and young children.

Get a fucking clue!

And sometimes you have to use criminal charges in order to get someone to get the psychological help they need.

Of which there is no evidence that is the case here. Not a lick of evidence. Not a smidgeon, so take your hypotheticals out of here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Except in the most extreme of circumstances, one shouldn't need the police to handle a 10 year old autistic child in a school, because they are most likely the most ill equipped and poorly trained to handle a 10 year old autistic child.

Except they are the only ones that can, even though they aren't equipped for it.

The school's hands are tied in the use of force, thus they have to call the cops over things that shouldn't really be police matters in the first place.

Jebus, we are just a wife anecdote away from LP Bingo in one thread!

Who said anything about using force?! This is about potentially needing to very temporarily restrain someone. And if the Police are needed, it very well is over by the time they arrive.

 

[Toni]

Typically you need intent for a crime and age is always a factor. Otherwise our prisons would be filled with toddlers and young children.

Get a fucking clue!

And sometimes you have to use criminal charges in order to get someone to get the psychological help they need.

Sadly, that is true. And it's pretty hit/miss whether that actually works to get them into any kind of decent evaluation, much less treatment. Our criminal justice system is full of people with mental illness. Yet our criminal justice system seems woefully ignorant and vastly underfunded and under staffed, lacking funds and staff, not to mention facilities, medications, etc. to even touch any kind of effective treatment. Frankly, a great number of people we have locked up right now do not belong in jail or prison but instead, need and deserve effective treatment for various mental illnesses. What we are doing now is much more expensive, much less effective and much more unjust. Yes, it is true that on occasion, someone is scared enough or has effective enough counsel to get them to agree to a psych evaluation and treatment plan. But not very often.

However, we are talking about a 10 year old child here, not an adult or even an older teenager. Police should not have ever been an option.

 

[Toni]

Except in the most extreme of circumstances, one shouldn't need the police to handle a 10 year old autistic child in a school, because they are most likely the most ill equipped and poorly trained to handle a 10 year old autistic child.

You would think so, but then when was the last time you've been to school? Keep in mind that this whole incident started at the behest of a teacher's aid wanting some 'justice'. So with that in mind, you really have no reason to think the teachers would treat him much better. From where I sit, you have 50/50 odds that the child will be mishandled and injured no matter which option you take, so what difference does it honestly make? At least with police officers there's a better chance that the people restraining said child will be physically fit enough to do so without exerting too much effort or hurting him.

At the very best, police resources were diverted away from situations where their intervention was appropriate and needed.

And the school system was able to abrogate their duty to this child and frankly to all other children in their charge.

 

[gmbteach]

Except in the most extreme of circumstances, one shouldn't need the police to handle a 10 year old autistic child in a school, because they are most likely the most ill equipped and poorly trained to handle a 10 year old autistic child.

Except they are the only ones that can, even though they aren't equipped for it.

The school's hands are tied in the use of force, thus they have to call the cops over things that shouldn't really be police matters in the first place.

This is incorrect. Here in Australia at least. The admin team, and designated staff have the authority to restrain a child using reasonable force to prevent them from harming themselves or others. I would think the States would have similarly designated persons in a school.

 

[LordKiran]

Except they are the only ones that can, even though they aren't equipped for it.

The school's hands are tied in the use of force, thus they have to call the cops over things that shouldn't really be police matters in the first place.

This is incorrect. Here in Australia at least. The admin team, and designated staff have the authority to restrain a child using reasonable force to prevent them from harming themselves or others. I would think the States would have similarly designated persons in a school.

Again, you'd think so. I don't know how they do it in Aussieland but here, due to the historical administrative structure of our nation in regards to states, you won't find much standardization between two schools in the same state even! Some schools have such amenities and quality staff, others do not.

 

[gmbteach]

This is incorrect. Here in Australia at least. The admin team, and designated staff have the authority to restrain a child using reasonable force to prevent them from harming themselves or others. I would think the States would have similarly designated persons in a school.

Again, you'd think so. I don't know how they do it in Aussieland but here, due to the historical administrative structure of our nation in regards to states, you won't find much standardization between two schools in the same state even! Some schools have such amenities and quality staff, others do not.

Well, that is simply moronic IMO!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except they are the only ones that can, even though they aren't equipped for it.

The school's hands are tied in the use of force, thus they have to call the cops over things that shouldn't really be police matters in the first place.

Jebus, we are just a wife anecdote away from LP Bingo in one thread!

Who said anything about using force?! This is about potentially needing to very temporarily restrain someone. And if the Police are needed, it very well is over by the time they arrive.

Restraining someone is using force.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except they are the only ones that can, even though they aren't equipped for it.

The school's hands are tied in the use of force, thus they have to call the cops over things that shouldn't really be police matters in the first place.

This is incorrect. Here in Australia at least. The admin team, and designated staff have the authority to restrain a child using reasonable force to prevent them from harming themselves or others. I would think the States would have similarly designated persons in a school.

Under those rules it's unlikely this incident would ever have involved the police.

 

[ksen]

This is why teachets need guns in the classroom.

 

[gmbteach]

This is why teachets need guns in the classroom.

That's just inviting more trouble.

 

[LordKiran]

Again, you'd think so. I don't know how they do it in Aussieland but here, due to the historical administrative structure of our nation in regards to states, you won't find much standardization between two schools in the same state even! Some schools have such amenities and quality staff, others do not.

Well, that is simply moronic IMO!

It comes down largely to how schools are funded through property taxes. Such taxes are based on land or property value. This means that high value (aka wealthy and affluent towns and districts) can afford the best while inner cities have to cobble together what they can.

 

[gmbteach]

Well, that is simply moronic IMO!

It comes down largely to how schools are funded through property taxes. Such taxes are based on land or property value. This means that high value (aka wealthy and affluent towns and districts) can afford the best while inner cities have to cobble together what they can.

Well, THAT is simply moronic as well!

 

[Toni]

It comes down largely to how schools are funded through property taxes. Such taxes are based on land or property value. This means that high value (aka wealthy and affluent towns and districts) can afford the best while inner cities have to cobble together what they can.

Well, THAT is simply moronic as well!

It is a good thing/bad thing. Local funding means local control and ideally, I am in favor of local control. In my state, local funding is only a portion of the funding received for schools. There are a bunch of very complicated funding formulas which are meant to equalize funding throughout the state, with adjustments for transportation, etc. Large cities and metropolitan areas use less $ per pupil for transportation; districts like mine use much more $/pupil for transportation as we are much more rural and spread out. At least that's how funding used to work. In the case of transportation funds, those were made much softer so that districts could use them for other things and now, mine does. Districts also get special funding for things like: per pupil funding for special ed students (so a lot of students get classified) and to offset some of the costs of providing education to students in poverty. Thing is, in my area, many parents who live below the poverty line will not fill out the paperwork because of pride and because they don't see themselves as poor. It is a stupid, complicated mess all around.

 

[gmbteach]

Well, THAT is simply moronic as well!

It is a good thing/bad thing. Local funding means local control and ideally, I am in favor of local control. In my state, local funding is only a portion of the funding received for schools. There are a bunch of very complicated funding formulas which are meant to equalize funding throughout the state, with adjustments for transportation, etc. Large cities and metropolitan areas use less $ per pupil for transportation; districts like mine use much more $/pupil for transportation as we are much more rural and spread out. At least that's how funding used to work. In the case of transportation funds, those were made much softer so that districts could use them for other things and now, mine does. Districts also get special funding for things like: per pupil funding for special ed students (so a lot of students get classified) and to offset some of the costs of providing education to students in poverty. Thing is, in my area, many parents who live below the poverty line will not fill out the paperwork because of pride and because they don't see themselves as poor. It is a stupid, complicated mess all around.

Our school funding is dependent upon student needs, number of students, number of indigenous, ESL students etc. I don't think there is one hard and fast method of finding that is perfect for every school.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, that is simply moronic IMO!

It comes down largely to how schools are funded through property taxes. Such taxes are based on land or property value. This means that high value (aka wealthy and affluent towns and districts) can afford the best while inner cities have to cobble together what they can.

I thought all states had gone to statewide funding for public schools specifically to avoid this problem.

There is another problem, though--the inner city schools spend far more on security and damage repair. Spending money on expensive stuff in the classroom simply won't happen--it would just end up broken or stolen anyway.

Finally, there is the problem that schools are to a large part a reflection of the students they get. If the parents don't care the school won't turn out good students no matter what.

 

[gmbteach]

It comes down largely to how schools are funded through property taxes. Such taxes are based on land or property value. This means that high value (aka wealthy and affluent towns and districts) can afford the best while inner cities have to cobble together what they can.

I thought all states had gone to statewide funding for public schools specifically to avoid this problem.

There is another problem, though--the inner city schools spend far more on security and damage repair. Spending money on expensive stuff in the classroom simply won't happen--it would just end up broken or stolen anyway.

Finally, there is the problem that schools are to a large part a reflection of the students they get. If the parents don't care the school won't turn out good students no matter what.

A teacher can make a difference. Especially a teacher from the same neighbourhood who has made it out of the 'cycle' and will encourage others to do so too.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I thought all states had gone to statewide funding for public schools specifically to avoid this problem.

There is another problem, though--the inner city schools spend far more on security and damage repair. Spending money on expensive stuff in the classroom simply won't happen--it would just end up broken or stolen anyway.

Finally, there is the problem that schools are to a large part a reflection of the students they get. If the parents don't care the school won't turn out good students no matter what.

A teacher can make a difference. Especially a teacher from the same neighbourhood who has made it out of the 'cycle' and will encourage others to do so too.

A good teacher can save a good student in a poor school.