AS DEFICIT EXPLODES, GOP DEMANDS EMERGENCY TAX CUT FOR THE RICH

[SimpleDon]

The deficit is a red herring.

But we should be using our capacity to deficit spend, i.e. within the limits of acceptable inflation, for something other than making the obscenely rich more obscenely rich and trying to satisfy the insatiable Military-Industrial Complex.

 

[SimpleDon]

View attachment 26394

This is 100% true.

Name me one job where someone doesn't work for a rich owner.

I will wait patiently for your answer.

0% false. The economy is driven by the demand for goods and services, it isn't constrained by the lack of financial capital, i.e. money to invest.

Why do you think that the opposite is true?

No business is going to invest in new production facilities without some certain belief that they can sell the products produced by the new facilities.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I believe the budget was balanced under Clinton.

The republican hypocrisy is stunning. They have completely abandoned the usual anti democrat position on reckless spending and handing debt down to future generations.

Because it's common knowledge that "the debt" is meaningless. It's a boogeyman. Republicans raise the debt to pay for things, Democrats raise taxes to pay for things. "The savior" Bernie even wants to raise taxes on the middle class and poor!

No one wants taxes raised, that's why the majority of U.S. states are Republican. Republican states also have cheaper cost of living.

It's not a bogeyman, that borrowing has to be repaid at some point. So long as the amount isn't too great politicians can get away with kicking the can, but eventually that doesn't work. See Greece for an example.

And note that while Republican states tend to have a lower cost of living they also tend to have a lower standard of living. A low cost of living is to a large degree an indication that it's not a desirable place to live.

Greece is not a relevant example. Greece was not borrowing in its sovreign currency. The can can be indefinitely kicked down the road.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not a bogeyman, that borrowing has to be repaid at some point. So long as the amount isn't too great politicians can get away with kicking the can, but eventually that doesn't work. See Greece for an example.

And note that while Republican states tend to have a lower cost of living they also tend to have a lower standard of living. A low cost of living is to a large degree an indication that it's not a desirable place to live.

Greece is not a relevant example. Greece was not borrowing in its sovreign currency. The can can be indefinitely kicked down the road.

Only by using inflation which harms the economy.

 

[fromderinside]

Functioning economy depends on faith of those who trade in and with it. In the case of the US our military might provides confidence to those who treat with us and for us within that protection. On the other hand Greece has no credible military with which to threaten or protect. Russia would collapse if it didn't pose significant threat to others.

Debt doesn't create risk unless others want to recover enough to be willing to challenge us.

IOW it ain't gonna happen any time soon.

While working for navy we devised an algorithm through which F-14 pilots could see tactical advantage in airspeed and altitude. Potential energy is quite the thing.

If nothing else those of us who feel confident recognize the advantage of overwhelming military power. Unfortunately those who don't see that as benefit are against debt and military strength and science for that matter.

One can see where fear arises. It's from the unknown.

Last hominem. Money/debt threatens no one unless there is force behind it.

 

[Horatio Parker]

It's not a bogeyman, that borrowing has to be repaid at some point. So long as the amount isn't too great politicians can get away with kicking the can, but eventually that doesn't work. See Greece for an example.

And note that while Republican states tend to have a lower cost of living they also tend to have a lower standard of living. A low cost of living is to a large degree an indication that it's not a desirable place to live.

Greece is not a relevant example. Greece was not borrowing in its sovreign currency. The can can be indefinitely kicked down the road.

Only by using inflation which harms the economy.

Inflation has nothing to do with it.

The deficit is a residual indicating govt spending not taxed. That we issue debt and pay interest on it is a policy choice.

 

[DBT]

Disagree--if more people get the skills for better jobs it will raise the pay for the shit jobs also because you won't have as many people available who can't do better.

(And it will cut down on the number of shit jobs as some will be automated.)

Somebody has to serve tables, cook, clean make beds, etc....not everyone can be doctors, lawyers or entrepreneurs. Doing necessary work should pay well.

In a wealthy nation such as America, nobody should be struggling if working full time.

You're completely missing my point. If more people have higher skills there won't be so much competition at the low end and thus wages will go up.

And expect to see automation reduce the demand for some of those jobs, also.

I'm pointing out saturation, that we only need so msny doctors or lawyers or engineers at any given period of time...so that there are those who have done a degree in their chosen field, but cannot find work, finding themselves driving taxis or waiting on tablea instead.

 

[ZiprHead]

You're completely missing my point. If more people have higher skills there won't be so much competition at the low end and thus wages will go up.

And expect to see automation reduce the demand for some of those jobs, also.

I'm pointing out saturation, that we only need so msny doctors or lawyers or engineers at any given period of time...so that there are those who have done a degree in their chosen field, but cannot find work, finding themselves driving taxis or waiting on tablea instead.

Loren is big on those unrealistic "ifs".

 

[Elixir]

View attachment 26394

This is 100% true.

Name me one job where someone doesn't work for a rich owner.

I will wait patiently for your answer.

0% false. The economy is driven by the demand for goods and services, it isn't constrained by the lack of financial capital, i.e. money to invest.

Why do you think that the opposite is true?

No business is going to invest in new production facilities without some certain belief that they can sell the products produced by the new facilities.

Nice try, but you can’t fix stupid.

 

[skepticalbip]

The deficit is a red herring.

Agreed.

It isn't entirely true that the deficit is a red herring, though it may sometimes be overplayed.

The budget for 2019 was $4.45 trillion. Interest and repayment on the debt was about 9% of that budget or better than $400 billion. That means we spent $400 billion servicing the debt that could have gone to either increased services or reducing the budget and so tax burden. For example, that $400 billion is about four times as much as went to education.

 

[Half-Life]

The deficit is a red herring.

But we should be using our capacity to deficit spend, i.e. within the limits of acceptable inflation, for something other than making the obscenely rich more obscenely rich and trying to satisfy the insatiable Military-Industrial Complex.

Oh, you don't know the facts.

3% of our budget is military. 10-15% of our budget is government handouts to the poor.

But military spending is the problem?

Might want to rethink what the facts say instead of listening to Democrats lie to you.

The poor don't even live in that bad of conditions anyway. Capitalism has made poor people basically live a life of luxury. Compare the life of a poor person in 1800 vs today. If we could bring those people to life today they'd be saying, "These are poor people??? They have cell phones, cars, indoor stoves, indoor heating/AC! They live like the rich did in our day!"

One of the kings back in the day (I forget which one) used to have 40 meals prepared for him every night for dinner and he would choose the one he wanted to eat. THAT was luxury back then! Now, you can do that by going to a supermarket and choosing anything with a few bucks.

 

[skepticalbip]

The deficit is a red herring.

But we should be using our capacity to deficit spend, i.e. within the limits of acceptable inflation, for something other than making the obscenely rich more obscenely rich and trying to satisfy the insatiable Military-Industrial Complex.

Oh, you don't know the facts.

3% of our budget is military. 10-15% of our budget is government handouts to the poor.

But military spending is the problem?

Might want to rethink what the facts say instead of listening to Democrats lie to you.

The poor don't even live in that bad of conditions anyway. Capitalism has made poor people basically live a life of luxury. Compare the life of a poor person in 1800 vs today. If we could bring those people to life today they'd be saying, "These are poor people??? They have cell phones, cars, indoor stoves, indoor heating/AC! They live like the rich did in our day!"

You don't need to go back to 1800 for a comparison of what we call poverty and real poverty. A trip into rural Mexico will do and those Mexican poor do not rate as poor by the World Health Organization because they have too much, but many in Haiti do because they have nothing.

 

[Half-Life]

Oh, you don't know the facts.

3% of our budget is military. 10-15% of our budget is government handouts to the poor.

But military spending is the problem?

Might want to rethink what the facts say instead of listening to Democrats lie to you.

The poor don't even live in that bad of conditions anyway. Capitalism has made poor people basically live a life of luxury. Compare the life of a poor person in 1800 vs today. If we could bring those people to life today they'd be saying, "These are poor people??? They have cell phones, cars, indoor stoves, indoor heating/AC! They live like the rich did in our day!"

You don't need to go back to 1800 for a comparison of what we call poverty and real poverty. A trip into rural Mexico will do and those Mexican poor do not rate as poor by the World Health Organization, but many in Haiti do.

A lot of it is a mental problem. Homeless people want to be homeless because they have some mental block that prevents them from working. Think about it, those bums you see on off ramps begging cars for money, wouldn't their time be better spent walking around town and begging some places to hire them? Of course it would. But, they'd rather get handouts from people. It's easier than working to them.

I still see tons of people hanging outside 711 begging people for change instead of going inside and begging the manager to work the night shift or something. People hate the night shift. If you can find someone willing to do it, they'd be ecstatic!

 

[laughing dog]

It's not a bogeyman, that borrowing has to be repaid at some point. So long as the amount isn't too great politicians can get away with kicking the can, but eventually that doesn't work. See Greece for an example.

And note that while Republican states tend to have a lower cost of living they also tend to have a lower standard of living. A low cost of living is to a large degree an indication that it's not a desirable place to live.

Greece is not a relevant example. Greece was not borrowing in its sovreign currency. The can can be indefinitely kicked down the road.

Only by using inflation which harms the economy.

There is no necessary link between the use of gov't debt and inflation. There is no necessary causation between inflation and harm to the economy. Hence your claim is wrong.

 

[steve_bank]

If someone offed a credit card with no limit and all you had to do was make a monthly payment would that sound too good to be true.

 

[Horatio Parker]

If someone offed a credit card with no limit and all you had to do was make a monthly payment would that sound too good to be true.

If you issue the currency that makes the payment.

 

[laughing dog]

If someone offed a credit card with no limit and all you had to do was make a monthly payment would that sound too good to be true.

Personal finance is not the same as government finance. People cannot issue currency to pay debts: governments can. People cannot tax others to pay debts: governments can.

 

[skepticalbip]

If someone offed a credit card with no limit and all you had to do was make a monthly payment would that sound too good to be true.

Personal finance is not the same as government finance. People cannot issue currency to pay debts: governments can. People cannot tax others to pay debts: governments can.

Unfortunately, some politicians think this way too. It has been tried several times in several different countries and has had disastrous consequences for the citizenry. The latest example is Venezuela... their currency, the Bolivar, is now worthless.

 

[SimpleDon]

Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..

i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

The huge income inequality that has been created by the sloppy thinking that you indulge in is the single greatest threat to capitalism. It is much greater than the threat of socialism.

By and large, businesses are run by professional managers, not by rich people who invest in the company. These professional managers use retained profits to invest in the company or they borrow the needed money from banks or they issue corporate bonds, they don't raise the required money from the stock market or by soliciting it from rich people.

The now dangerously high-income inequality was created by suppressing wages to increase profits. This was an intentional result of many different ideas perpetuated without any regard for the realities of the economy. The one that you have been victimized by here is that the rich create jobs by investing, usually in the stock market. Once again, jobs are created by businesses making investments because they feel that there exists unmeet demand for the products that will be produced. Your simplistic assertion that the rich create jobs by investing their money is saying that businesses invest because there is money available.

Capitalism doesn't depend on competition in a free market, another of your unrealistic ideas. If it did depend on that we would never have a working market system. The free market is a fantasy. There has never been a free market independent of the government in the entire history of man and his civilizations. Please provide the list of self-regulating free markets that have convinced you that it is possible.

 

[SimpleDon]

but you didn't even say 'most' jobs, did you?
You just offered a blanket truth that does not stand up to scrutiny, nor does it answer anything to the OP. Just a conservative talikng point that pretends to be a juddtification for prostitution.
but tgey do not HAVE to.
Not all restaurants are national chains.
Not all businesses must belong to a priviledged few.
Co-ops are quite possible, and thus we do not NEED the parasite rich.

But whst does thus have to do with the national debt and the GOP?

It is about tax cuts for the rich, Keith. I am showing why it's necessary.

The workers can not run the company. They would run it into the ground. This is why we have the smart people running it. Labor is not a reason to pay someone money. Like Ben Shapiro said, "you can spend all day digging 10 foot deep holes in your backyard. No one would deny that it was very hard work and you put a lot of effort into it. But, to go around and demand that someone pay you for doing that is quite stupid. People will laugh at you. Nobody will pay you just because you put in hard work and effort."

Reember why immigrants used to flock here? It was because wages were soaring due to unregulated capitalism. They didn't come here to work for less money, they came here to work for more money. Now we have so many regulations and wages are stagnant. Blame Democrats for this. Republicans hate regulations. They want everyone to get paid handsomely. But, Democrats want regulations out of the ass, Keith. This slows the economy. Trump is undoing regulations that Obama did and the economy is booming again.

I take it that you are ready to take up the long-standing challenge to list the regulations that cost us jobs in the economy. This challenge has stood unanswered for more than five years.

Go ahead.