Bearing False Witness in Evangelizing

[Rhea]

Reading another thread, it stuck me that every time a Christian tries to evangelize about “eternal life” they are claiming to have witnessed something that they have not witnessed.

No one has witnessed eternal life. (Nor have they personally witnessed many of the things they evangelize about). So aren’t they bearing false witness in the most literal sense?

And this makes me wonder, what have they ever actually witnessed? The only witness they can give to anything in the bible is a witness that they read it, not that it is true. They didn’t witness that.


Bearing false witness is something that they do a lot, it seems, when they evangelize with any claimed certainty beyond their own feelings.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It's not hearsay if the fishwife you heard it from is unimpeachably perfect and omniscient.
It would HELP if they ever dhowed ip and gave their testimony firsthand, but we just have to have faith that the politically-influenced attempts at translating anonymous third- or-more-hand accounts at least capture the salient details upon which to wager our eternal essences which will persist after our earthly demise.

 

[fromderinside]

It's heresy the fishwife you heard it from is unimpeachably perfect and omniscient.

better.

 

[Politesse]

Reading another thread, it stuck me that every time a Christian tries to evangelize about “eternal life” they are claiming to have witnessed something that they have not witnessed.

No one has witnessed eternal life. (Nor have they personally witnessed many of the things they evangelize about). So aren’t they bearing false witness in the most literal sense?

And this makes me wonder, what have they ever actually witnessed? The only witness they can give to anything in the bible is a witness that they read it, not that it is true. They didn’t witness that.


Bearing false witness is something that they do a lot, it seems, when they evangelize with any claimed certainty beyond their own feelings.

I assume you mean an afterlife rather than eternal life as such. If they claim to have seen it personally, than yes.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No, she does not.
It has been made quite clear to me that they mean eternal life, not simply 'being dead but in Paradise.' Because that's thd promise they have accepted.

 

[Politesse]

No, she does not.
It has been made quite clear to me that they mean eternal life, not simply 'being dead but in Paradise.' Because that's thd promise they have accepted.

In that case, presuming they are correct in their cosmological views, it isn't false witness since the life you're living right now is your eternal life, and anyone can bear witness to it. I thought the implication Rhea meant was that since no one can observe the afterlife, they can't bear witness to it honestly.

 

[Rhea]

I assume you mean an afterlife rather than eternal life as such.

Why on earth would you assume that? Seriously, that is confusing. What made you say it?

Matthew 25:46
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

John 6:27
Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval."

1 John 2:25
And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.

1 John 5:11
And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

John 3:16,36
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life…

John 6:40,47
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day…

 

[Rhea]

In that case, presuming they are correct in their cosmological views, it isn't false witness since the life you're living right now is your eternal life, and anyone can bear witness to it. I thought the implication Rhea meant was that since no one can observe the afterlife, they can't bear witness to it honestly.

Everyone who bears witness to this life knows it is not eternal. Everyone dies. EVERY. ONE. No one has ever witnessed anything eternal. No one has ever witnessed life before birth and no one has ever witnessed life after death. No one has ever witnessed anything that is not finite.

Come on, don't play word games. You're better than that. You know what they are saying and you know they have never seen it.

 

[Rhea]

In that case, presuming they are correct in their cosmological views,

On a separate note, what does this mean? Assuming they are correct that they think there is eternal life? Assuming they are correct in think something they have never seen is still factual? Assuming a cosmological view is a thing and that there is a correct one? Assuming they think like you?

I can't parse what you're grokking here.

 

[Angry Floof]

Reading another thread, it stuck me that every time a Christian tries to evangelize about “eternal life” they are claiming to have witnessed something that they have not witnessed.

No one has witnessed eternal life. (Nor have they personally witnessed many of the things they evangelize about). So aren’t they bearing false witness in the most literal sense?

And this makes me wonder, what have they ever actually witnessed? The only witness they can give to anything in the bible is a witness that they read it, not that it is true. They didn’t witness that.


Bearing false witness is something that they do a lot, it seems, when they evangelize with any claimed certainty beyond their own feelings.

What they witness is OTHER HUMAN BEINGS telling them these things, every bit of it.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Let's be fair. There was that 6-year-old Pennsylvania boy who died, went to heaven, and came back. I think he actually got Jesus' autograph, too. He was...I can just see the name...Timmy Twaddle? No..but something like that...Cody Balderdash? No. Alex Malarkey!!! The first grader who got to see heaven! A true Christian witness! (Just don't google him.)

 

[Politesse]

In that case, presuming they are correct in their cosmological views, it isn't false witness since the life you're living right now is your eternal life, and anyone can bear witness to it. I thought the implication Rhea meant was that since no one can observe the afterlife, they can't bear witness to it honestly.

Everyone who bears witness to this life knows it is not eternal. Everyone dies. EVERY. ONE. No one has ever witnessed anything eternal. No one has ever witnessed life before birth and no one has ever witnessed life after death. No one has ever witnessed anything that is not finite.

Come on, don't play word games. You're better than that. You know what they are saying and you know they have never seen it.

How can anyone personally witness what happens after death? I stand by my position; a person is only bearing false witness if they claim to have been somewhere they haven't, not because you disagree with them about where they might be going later.

 

[Politesse]

Let's be fair. There was that 6-year-old Pennsylvania boy who died, went to heaven, and came back. I think he actually got Jesus' autograph, too. He was...I can just see the name...Timmy Twaddle? No..but something like that...Cody Balderdash? No. Alex Malarkey!!! The first grader who got to see heaven! A true Christian witness! (Just don't google him.)

See, that counts as false witness.

 

[Politesse]

In that case, presuming they are correct in their cosmological views,

On a separate note, what does this mean? Assuming they are correct that they think there is eternal life? Assuming they are correct in think something they have never seen is still factual? Assuming a cosmological view is a thing and that there is a correct one? Assuming they think like you?

I can't parse what you're grokking here.

Assuming they are correct about life being eternal in character. If it is, then they have witnessed it, as have you. If life is eternal, then there's just the one.

 

[Politesse]

I assume you mean an afterlife rather than eternal life as such.

Why on earth would you assume that? Seriously, that is confusing. What made you say it?

Matthew 25:46
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

John 6:27
Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval."

1 John 2:25
And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.

1 John 5:11
And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

John 3:16,36
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life…

John 6:40,47
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day…

Because what you literally said makes no logical sense. Disagreeing with someone about religion doesn't make them an unfaithful witness. Misrepresenting something they witnessed makes someone an unfaithful witness.

 

[Rhea]

If they say, "there is everlasting life, and you can have it if you believe on Jesus," they are bearing witness to something that they have never witnessed.

That is bearing false witness.

They even use the words, "That is my Christian Witness," except they didn't witness anything.
Not that they care. Bearing false witness for Jesus has never been a roadblock to evangelizing.

Just to reiterate what is the topic: They are claiming to know something that they do not know.

Reading another thread, it stuck me that every time a Christian tries to evangelize about “eternal life” they are claiming to have witnessed something that they have not witnessed.

No one has witnessed eternal life. (Nor have they personally witnessed many of the things they evangelize about). So aren’t they bearing false witness in the most literal sense?

And this makes me wonder, what have they ever actually witnessed? The only witness they can give to anything in the bible is a witness that they read it, not that it is true. They didn’t witness that.


Bearing false witness is something that they do a lot, it seems, when they evangelize with any claimed certainty beyond their own feelings.

 

[Politesse]

If they say, "there is everlasting life, and you can have it if you believe on Jesus," they are bearing witness to something that they have never witnessed.

That is bearing false witness.

They even use the words, "That is my Christian Witness," except they didn't witness anything.
Not that they care. Bearing false witness for Jesus has never been a roadblock to evangelizing.

I think you and I mean different things by the term "witness" then.

 

[Rhea]

If they say, "there is everlasting life, and you can have it if you believe on Jesus," they are bearing witness to something that they have never witnessed.

That is bearing false witness.

They even use the words, "That is my Christian Witness," except they didn't witness anything.
Not that they care. Bearing false witness for Jesus has never been a roadblock to evangelizing.

I think you and I mean different things by the term "witness" then.

I think you mean something different than the rest of Christianity by the term “witness.”.
Not surprised, you often say you are not like the rest of them.

This post is about how the rest of them behave.

 

[Politesse]

If they say, "there is everlasting life, and you can have it if you believe on Jesus," they are bearing witness to something that they have never witnessed.

That is bearing false witness.

They even use the words, "That is my Christian Witness," except they didn't witness anything.
Not that they care. Bearing false witness for Jesus has never been a roadblock to evangelizing.

I think you and I mean different things by the term "witness" then.

I think you mean something different than the rest of Christianity by the term “witness.”.
Not surprised, you often say you are not like the rest of them.

This post is about how the rest of them behave.

You say I do not understand because I am "not like the rest of them". But you yourself are very much "not like the rest of them", yet you expect us to accurately represent "their" points of view.

Are you sure you are not at risk of bearing false witness?

 

[Keith&Co.]

You say I do not understand because I am "not like the rest of them".

No, she did not. She said YOU say you're not like the redt of them.
Do you do this on purpose?