Bernie's vision would result in half the workforce effectively employed by the government

[Politesse]

I work for the government, and I'm fine with that. I've had plenty of colleagues who got stuck at shady private for-profit colleges and I would not fancy their fate. Corporate America sucks monkey balls. Every once in a while, someone suggests that the school ought to be run more "like a business". They then, invariably, propose something ostentatiously stupid and demeaning to all concerned.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The majority (slim) of the US want to remove Trump from office. 75% of the people want witnesses to testify. McConnell doesn't give a fuck what the people think.

McConnell would care if his constituents applied enough pressure on him that he feared losing his seat.

No... they won't apply that pressure. He represents Kentucky. You seriously know nothing about American politics. People in red states have been voting against their interests for decades now. And even now, they are paying $1,000 in Trump tariff taxes with a smile on their face.

Disagree. Just because people in Kentucky haven't been won to your side yet doesn't mean they never could be. Learned helplessness does not look good on you. Neither does villification of those you seek to win over.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I'm under no illusion that Sanders will be able to get republicans to go along with him. But then no democrat will be able to do that, not with McConnell in charge. So why not have someone who will actually fight for the policies we want? And if we can negotiate a deal, why not start negotiations with what we want instead of giving R's half of what they want to begin with, and conceding half of our goals? A lot of people are fed up with democrats, not because the republicans block them, but because they don't seem to be even trying to help.

I agree with what you write here except that I also believe public pressure can either get Republicans to vote for these policies, or get those Republicans replaced. Ultimately these people are voted in and out of power, and many of them intend to remain voted in.

 

[ZiprHead]

And how does this impact the Senate? Obama barely dragged ACA across the line, and that took some incredible parliamentary tactics.

Obama made the error of tying to compromise with the Republicans instead of appealing to the people to create pressure on them.

The majority (slim) of the US want to remove Trump from office. 75% of the people want witnesses to testify. McConnell doesn't give a fuck what the people think.

Actually it's reported that it's up to 82% now.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No... they won't apply that pressure. He represents Kentucky. You seriously know nothing about American politics. People in red states have been voting against their interests for decades now. And even now, they are paying $1,000 in Trump tariff taxes with a smile on their face.

Disagree. Just because people in Kentucky haven't been won to your side yet doesn't mean they never could be.

Okay, what part did you not get about the smiles on face while paying the Tariff taxes? These are the people that have wanted to keep the Governments hands off of their Social Security. Since Palin it has gotten out of hand. They can't be reasoned with. Then you have conservatives that just can't vote for a Democrat, even when that means having to vote for Trump. This stuff has been brewing since Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act. We are now being led by the tyranny of the minority.

Learned helplessness does not look good on you.

Cute. I mean we could cite Sandy Hook as a reason for feeling absolutely powerless. McConnell fucked the Democrats over Merrick Garland, and America over the Mueller Report and now over Impeachment. Want to talk about powerlessness? Or are we supposed to be burning the streets to the ground to get the people behind us?

Neither does villification of those you seek to win over.

Yeah, you really need to learn what vilification actually is.

 

[ZiprHead]

No... they won't apply that pressure. He represents Kentucky. You seriously know nothing about American politics. People in red states have been voting against their interests for decades now. And even now, they are paying $1,000 in Trump tariff taxes with a smile on their face.

Disagree. Just because people in Kentucky haven't been won to your side yet doesn't mean they never could be. Learned helplessness does not look good on you. Neither does villification of those you seek to win over.

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No... they won't apply that pressure. He represents Kentucky. You seriously know nothing about American politics. People in red states have been voting against their interests for decades now. And even now, they are paying $1,000 in Trump tariff taxes with a smile on their face.

Disagree. Just because people in Kentucky haven't been won to your side yet doesn't mean they never could be. Learned helplessness does not look good on you. Neither does villification of those you seek to win over.

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

Does JP know the Governor in Kentucky is a Democrat again?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Okay, what part did you not get about the smiles on face while paying the Tariff taxes? These are the people that have wanted to keep the Governments hands off of their Social Security. Since Palin it has gotten out of hand. They can't be reasoned with. Then you have conservatives that just can't vote for a Democrat, even when that means having to vote for Trump. This stuff has been brewing since Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act. We are now being led by the tyranny of the minority.

And all this from the country that pretended to be a shining beacon on a hill of Democracy. I guess if you feel so defeated you are giving up trying you may as well just lay down and die. (shrug)

Yeah, you really need to learn what vilification actually is.

It's painting people the way you do in the text above, as those who can't be reasoned with. It's calling them Deplorables instead of making efforts to win them over. If you are so resigned to your defeat that you won't back those who want to try, and if you'll sit there telling them it can't be done, then you have no right to complain. It makes you part of the problem.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

Does JP know the Governor in Kentucky is a Democrat again?

No. I didn't know that. So what the fuck is holding you all back then? Pressure that Governor and convince Kentucky voters to pressure McConnel. This isn't rocket surgery. Make the effort and stop saying it can't be done.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

No... they won't apply that pressure. He represents Kentucky. You seriously know nothing about American politics. People in red states have been voting against their interests for decades now. And even now, they are paying $1,000 in Trump tariff taxes with a smile on their face.

Disagree. Just because people in Kentucky haven't been won to your side yet doesn't mean they never could be. Learned helplessness does not look good on you. Neither does villification of those you seek to win over.

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

It is cute that you think you are liberals as you stand in the way of actual liberals and attack Sanders.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

Does JP know the Governor in Kentucky is a Democrat again?

No. I didn't know that.

I can see how that would have been easy to miss, with the energy Trump put in backing Bevin. Oddly enough, I knew his Uncle. They were conservative, but not the asshat conservatives (Bevin) we see today.

So what the fuck is holding you all back then?

I suggest watching The Best Man, a movie based on Gore Vidal's play. Maybe at that point, you can get that a Southern Democrat =/ Northern Democrat.

Pressure that Governor and convince Kentucky voters to pressure McConnel.

To what specifically?

 

[ZiprHead]

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

It is cute that you think you are liberals as you stand in the way of actual liberals and attack Sanders.

It's cute how you dodged the proposal. It's cute how you try to portray yourself as THE REAL LIBERAL^TM. It's cute how you continuously try to portray yourself as having this great knowledge of US politics while being so wrong so often and continuously being told so by many members here and never taking it to heart.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

It is cute that you think you are liberals as you stand in the way of actual liberals and attack Sanders.

It's cute how you dodged the proposal. It's cute how you try to portray yourself as THE REAL LIBERAL^TM. It's cute how you continuously try to portray yourself as having this great knowledge of US politics while being so wrong so often and continuously being told so by many members here and never taking it to heart.

Well, he does want a Trump victory in 2020, so I guess we should expect his act.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

How about instead of putting down US liberals for their views of red states, you apply your tactic you keep pushing on those red state people yourself? You can report back to us on your progress. You might learn something about the US instead of your ignorant bloviating.

It is cute that you think you are liberals as you stand in the way of actual liberals and attack Sanders.

It's cute how you dodged the proposal. It's cute how you try to portray yourself as THE REAL LIBERAL^TM. It's cute how you continuously try to portray yourself as having this great knowledge of US politics while being so wrong so often and continuously being told so by many members here and never taking it to heart.

I have never, not even once, claimed to be some expert on US politics. That is the straw man that you so love to push. But I can see and give my opinions just as much as you (and you are no expert either). That you disagree with my opinions and that you lack fortitude to try to change your country doesn't in any way say anything about my knowledge of your political system. All I need to know is that you have people elected to government and that you can vote them in and out of power. What I write is based on that.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It's cute how you dodged the proposal. It's cute how you try to portray yourself as THE REAL LIBERAL^TM. It's cute how you continuously try to portray yourself as having this great knowledge of US politics while being so wrong so often and continuously being told so by many members here and never taking it to heart.

Well, he does want a Trump victory in 2020, so I guess we should expect his act.

I would like to see Yang win. I know that is very unlikely so Sanders is my second choice. If not Sanders then probably another Democrat. Your attempt to Declare I favour Trump is disingenuous. I can just as easily declare that you want Trump to win.

It is sad to see what has become of your once great nation. I hope it can improve.

 

[ZiprHead]

It's cute how you dodged the proposal. It's cute how you try to portray yourself as THE REAL LIBERAL^TM. It's cute how you continuously try to portray yourself as having this great knowledge of US politics while being so wrong so often and continuously being told so by many members here and never taking it to heart.

I have never, not even once, claimed to be some expert on US politics. That is the straw man that you so love to push. But I can see and give my opinions just as much as you (and you are no expert either). That you disagree with my opinions and that you lack fortitude to try to change your country doesn't in any way say anything about my knowledge of your political system. All I need to know is that you have people elected to government and that you can vote them in and out of power. What I write is based on that.

And again you dodged the proposal.

I never said you claimed to be an expert, that is your straw man you continue to use. But when you continually try to hand out "advice" to US citizens who know far better than you the limitations of our system, you get to wear the crown.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It's cute how you dodged the proposal. It's cute how you try to portray yourself as THE REAL LIBERAL^TM. It's cute how you continuously try to portray yourself as having this great knowledge of US politics while being so wrong so often and continuously being told so by many members here and never taking it to heart.

Well, he does want a Trump victory in 2020, so I guess we should expect his act.

I would like to see Yang win. I know that is very unlikely so Sanders is my second choice. If not Sanders then probably another Democrat.

What, no props for Jill Stein?

Your attempt to Declare I favour Trump is disingenuous.

No, it's genuine. I mean it.

I can just as easily declare that you want Trump to win.

Yeah, that'd be harder to demonstrate. You know what Eugene Debs, Norman Thomas, Michael Harrington, and Bernie Sanders have in common? (No... you don't... so don't bother with the Google) I know their historic roles in American Democratic Socialism (of which Sanders has almost none). I know the struggles of the Socialists in the US, what has and hasn't been accomplish for the good and the bad. I know that about 70% of the original socialist platform from 1900 is part our way of life now either directly or in an adaptable fashion. And I know that Bernie Sanders can't win the General Election. It'd be a bit odd having a Handle of "Jimmy Higgins" for 20 or so years and support Trump.

Meanwhile you are a Canadian "liberal" who ironically seems to not understand the issues of vote splitting among a political faction.

It is sad to see what has become of your once great nation. I hope it can improve.

We are probably fucked at this point. The only question remaining is our democracy dead.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I never said you claimed to be an expert

You said I portrayed myself as an expert. I do not and I am not. You are merely goading as is your way, hypocrite.

But when you continually try to hand out "advice" to US citizens who know far better than you the limitations of our system, you get to wear the crown.

Doubtful that most reading this do. It is unclear if you do. And it does not matter one bit. All that needs to be known, and that can be seen by all, is that you as a people have the power to vote your political critters into and out of office. That you lack the fortitude to get behind an effort to effect real change is apparent and does not require any special knowledge of the particulars of your political system. And my encouraging people to try is not a display of any ignorance on my part. It is a display of hope and determination. Something your country is currently sorely lacking and desperately needs.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What, no props for Jill Stein?

She's not running. And I prefer Yang, Bernie, Warren and others over her.

Your attempt to Declare I favour Trump is disingenuous.

No, it's genuine. I mean it.

I can just as easily declare that you want Trump to win.

Yeah, that'd be harder to demonstrate.

Not at all. You can't read minds any more than I can. Your goading notwithstanding.

And I know that Bernie Sanders can't win the General Election.

Just as you knew that Donald Trump couldn't win the General Election over Hillary? You know no such thing. You are not a prophet.

Meanwhile you are a Canadian "liberal" who ironically seems to not understand the issues of vote splitting among a political faction.

Its funny how you only see this in one direction. As has been written here a number of times already, if you think Sanders supporters won't vote blue no matter who but you think other democrats will, then you should be backing sanders by this vote splitting logic. Oh, but you are a prophet and "know" he can't win the general.

It is sad to see what has become of your once great nation. I hope it can improve.

We are probably fucked at this point. The only question remaining is our democracy dead.

Your country can come back from the brink. Stranger things have happened. You can start by reaching out in good faith to those whose votes you may be able to win if you don't go off about "deplorables" etc and if you give your people something to vote FOR rather than vote against.

 

[ZiprHead]

I never said you claimed to be an expert

You said I portrayed myself as an expert. I do not and I am not. You are merely goading as is your way, hypocrite.

goad
/ɡōd/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: goading
1.
provoke or annoy (someone) so as to stimulate some action or reaction.

Nope, I have absolutely no hope to stimulate a reaction from you. As a matter of fact, I would much prefer you to just not post until you learn better about the subject you are posting about.